Why Drops Regarding flavoring?

[ENAUD]

Warning! This thread was a late night rant and was intended to be taken lightly

This has been driving me nuts!!! So many suggestions for recipe's using drops! Listing ingredients by drops is , to me at least, totally useless information. I can think of several factors that can influence drop size. Temperature influencing viscosity of flavorings/base, angle of bottle tip while drops are dispensed, timing of drop release based on force applied to bottle, tremors in hand holding bottle, size of hole in nozzle of bottle, etc...
Percentages are percentages no matter what volume is considered. Percentages are scalable. Recipe's in drops might as well say a pinch of this and a dash of that...I just needed to get this off my mind...

 

[RocketPuppy]

The only time I use drops is when a recipe calls for 1 or 2, and the percentage to measure would be too small for a syringe/scale. I use a drop of AP in a few recipes. Otherwise, I agree. Drops are ridiculous.

 

[Shilo]

The drops per ml of the bottle and flavor/brand being used are important to me (and something I always add into the calculator when making any recipe) because I do use drops for highly concentrated flavors. I understand the argument and agree that lower concentrated flavors that require a normal percentage should be drawn out with a syringe. But if you are working under 1%-- drops get to be your friend real fast JMO....lol

We all have our own little ways of doing this--- just like we do anything else. And yes probably there are DIYers who mix in a similar style to how they cook---artistic and experimental or very cerebral and precise and others who mix in a method in between the two.

 

[Rat2chat2]

Nothing makes my any happier than mixing up a new sample. I love drops and it works for me. I did everything the right and calculated way when I first began, but I am comfortable in my madness and I've only bought juice twice in the last 8 months, so I must be doing something right for me. Good luck to ya and happy measuring.

 

[DirtyJon]

I use drops for my 5ml sample bottles yes I draw the main part with syringe but use drops at these low levels. Then calculate for larger batches. It a 2 way street for me and I'm just fine with it. I also havnt had to buy juice in a while now. My madness keeps me SAIN

 

[williebb123]

using drops on small mixes or below 1% seems to be the norm if you calibrate your drops to the best of your ability, ive been studying mixing by weight which cuts down on cleaning syringes and such , as soon as my scales arrive i should be mixing in a whole new light

 

[Passunca]

The OP is not saying that mixing by drops is wrong, he's saying that sharing using drops is useless.

If you know the math, if you can replicate your mix to a larger volume, why do you share your recipe by drops?
For a 50ml, 347 drops of this, 215 drops of that?

Even if your lazy, 3 drops (6 characters), 3% (2 characters)...

The best example that I know:
Inawera claims their bottles have 200 drops/10ml, 20/ml.
Users have measured and say 600 drops/10ml, 60/ml.
I measured and gave me 450 drops/10ml, 45/ml.

If someone say use 5 drops, he's saying 2,5%, 0,8% or 1,11%?
Why not saying immediately 0,8%?

Just my 2 eurocents.

 

[Dampmaskin]

Yup, "drops" is a poorly defined unit.

I've got a similar gripe with mech mods and voltage drop.

Can we please cut out all the measurements that have the word "drop" in them?

 

[Shilo]

The OP is not saying that mixing by drops is wrong, he's saying that sharing using drops is useless.

If you know the math, if you can replicate your mix to a larger volume, why do you share your recipe by drops?
For a 50ml, 347 drops of this, 215 drops of that?

Even if your lazy, 3 drops (6 characters), 3% (2 characters)...

The best example that I know:
Inawera claims their bottles have 200 drops/10ml, 20/ml.
Users have measured and say 600 drops/10ml, 60/ml.
I measured and gave me 450 drops/10ml, 45/ml.

If someone say use 5 drops, he's saying 2,5%, 0,8% or 1,11%?
Why not saying immediately 0,8%?

Just my 2 eurocents.

A simple explanation is people tend to make very small test batches and get in the habit from that of referring to "drops". If someone is posting recipes that call for 347 drops; now that is a problem.

Posting drops for a tiny batch is not a sign of laziness as most of us are not mass producing and like to switch it up or change recipe components often. I have never mixed a 50 ml bottle---never more than 30 ml and often less than that.

 

[DeadbeatJeff]

A simple explanation is people tend to make very small test batches and get in the habit from that of referring to "drops". If someone is posting recipes that call for 347 drops; now that is a problem.

Posting drops for a tiny batch is not a sign of laziness as most of us are not mass producing and like to switch it up or change recipe components often. I have never mixed a 50 ml bottle---never more than 30 ml and often less than that.

seriously?

I make 100ml batches relatively frequently.

 

[Bryong70]

This has been driving me nuts!!! So many suggestions for recipe's using drops! Listing ingredients by drops is , to me at least, totally useless information. I can think of several factors that can influence drop size. Temperature influencing viscosity of flavorings/base, angle of bottle tip while drops are dispensed, timing of drop release based on force applied to bottle, tremors in hand holding bottle, size of hole in nozzle of bottle, etc...
Percentages are percentages no matter what volume is considered. Percentages are scalable. Recipe's in drops might as well say a pinch of this and a dash of that...I just needed to get this off my mind...

Some of the best recipes I've ever made is a pinch of this and a dash of that. I use drops for concentrated flavors only, never had a problem with measurements. Also it is 100% that I will not get cross contamination in flavors, by using syringes and such. With factors like hand shake, temperature, etc. it's a negligible factor.

I agree that people should call out recipes in percentages and not drops, then it's up to you, if you want to use drops, syringes, etc as a form of measurement.

 

[Heabob]

I never post recipes by drops.

I measure drops into 1ml syringe, usually 1 drop .025ml, 2 drops .05ml, so far anyway...

Edit:Except for the ones in glass bottles have no dripper dropper topper thingy.

Those I have to draw out with syringe.

If I add drops on the fly I keep records and convert when it's done how I like it.

 

[MilitantParasite]

A standard eye dropper gives 20 drops per ml. This is the standard definition of a metric drop. If you test it out, it works. But this is for water base solutions and it doesn't work for PG or VG. According to the Pendant Drop theory, surface tension force is proportional to the circumference of the tube. If you work out the math, you get a correction factor of K = g/(r x g1), where g is the coefficient of surface tension for PG or VG, r is the density of PG or VG, and g1 is the coefficient of surface tension of water. For PG this works out to K=1.881. For VG this works out to K=1.53. I tend to use 2 to 1 for PG and 1.5 to 1 for VG. It works out well for me. I've tested 6ml flavorant bottles and get very consistent 40 drops per ml. According to theory I should get around 37.6 drops Most engineers would be satisfied with a 6% agreement with theory. I use drops for small batches (,10 ml or less) and syringes for larger batches. I notice very little difference in flavor. If your not satisfied, measure it out for yourselves.

 

[MilitantParasite]

Heabob, your .025ml per drop is dead on the mark, but for PG only.

 

[ENAUD]

Firstly, I'd like to thank each and every one who replied to my late night rant. Getting different perspectives can be immensely helpful for me to understand things. The written word on a forum board is a dis-jointed conversation style, and nuances of meaning do get lost at times.

The OP is not saying that mixing by drops is wrong, he's saying that sharing using drops is useless.

This was really what I was getting at.

The best example that I know:
Inawera claims their bottles have 200 drops/10ml, 20/ml.
Users have measured and say 600 drops/10ml, 60/ml.
I measured and gave me 450 drops/10ml, 45/ml.

This type of observation has been a source of frustration with me as well.

The drops per ml of the bottle and flavor/brand being used are important to me (and something I always add into the calculator when making any recipe) because I do use drops for highly concentrated flavors. I understand the argument and agree that lower concentrated flavors that require a normal percentage should be drawn out with a syringe. But if you are working under 1%-- drops get to be your friend real fast JMO....lol

I get the point of lower than 1%, and found out early on about the super concentrated flavors with some tobacco absolute I was trying out. I have considered making a dilution of 1ml flavor/4ml base to more accurately nail down a percentage of desired flavor for mixing with a couple of stronger flavors I have.

We all have our own little ways of doing this--- just like we do anything else. And yes probably there are DIYers who mix in a similar style to how they cook---artistic and experimental or very cerebral and precise and others who mix in a method in between the two.

I'll probably wind up in the latter category with a bit more time. I use recipes as a guideline when I cook, often reading several, then making my own interpretation from them.

Nothing makes my any happier than mixing up a new sample. I love drops and it works for me. I did everything the right and calculated way when I first began, but I am comfortable in my madness and I've only bought juice twice in the last 8 months, so I must be doing something right for me. Good luck to ya and happy measuring.

Yesterday I made six different Inawera 5ml samples, two drops each I will vape these off today and tomorrow and take notes. then guestimate how I will shoot my 40ml batches. I am comfortable with sticking to a flavor for a few days at a time. I started mixing back in March, and havn't bought vendor juice since, in fact, I tossed out a bunch of vendor juice a while back, because I am finding the DIY route better for me for several reasons. I am having fun

Thanks again for the replies, I enjoyed reading them

 

[HeadInClouds]

Recipes with measures like 0.033333% and 0.0075% discourage new mixers from even trying. But if you say to add one drop per 5ml (or whatever), it suddenly becomes a friendlier recipe. If you specify that the drop should be using a dropper that makes 20 drops per ml (or whatever), it's both friendly and accurate.

 

[Bryong70]

A standard eye dropper gives 20 drops per ml. This is the standard definition of a metric drop. If you test it out, it works. But this is for water base solutions and it doesn't work for PG or VG. According to the Pendant Drop theory, surface tension force is proportional to the circumference of the tube. If you work out the math, you get a correction factor of K = g/(r x g1), where g is the coefficient of surface tension for PG or VG, r is the density of PG or VG, and g1 is the coefficient of surface tension of water. For PG this works out to K=1.881. For VG this works out to K=1.53. I tend to use 2 to 1 for PG and 1.5 to 1 for VG. It works out well for me. I've tested 6ml flavorant bottles and get very consistent 40 drops per ml. According to theory I should get around 37.6 drops Most engineers would be satisfied with a 6% agreement with theory. I use drops for small batches (,10 ml or less) and syringes for larger batches. I notice very little difference in flavor. If your not satisfied, measure it out for yourselves.

Correct. I put all my flavors in the same style bottles, so that all my drops are consistent. I get 34 drops per ml with this style bottle dropper at 50%PG / 50%VG.
If you are working with large batches this is what I would do. Lets say the measurement is 2.35ml, then put 2ml in a syringe then the remaining 0.35ml in drops.

 

[mxrdrver]

Recipes spelled out in drops are useless. Using drops is only beneficial when mixing by weight. And, even then, a percentage is needed. I mix by weight, and use dropper bottles on all my ingredients. But I'm shooting for a fixed weight.


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[Bunnykiller]

I dont use the drop method.... I cant count past 31

 

[squee]

Recipe's in drops might as well say a pinch of this and a dash of that...I just needed to get this off my mind...

LOL, I take it you don't do a lot of cooking? For me, I think it depends. I would rather see 1 drop of AP per 10 ml than .0025ml or whatever it would be. But yeah, for anything more than that I just convert it into % for the calculator.

BTW, dash and pinch are measurements too - dash is 1/8 tsp and a pinch is 1/16. (Oh, and a smidgeon is 1/32 tsp)