Why Exclusivity Doesn't Work

[j4mmin42]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The Zenesis, and The Drawbacks of Extreme Exclusivityhttp://www.ninjavapes.com/2012/11/the-zenesis-and-drawbacks-of-extreme.html
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Just a quick blog post on my attempts to acquire the Zenesis, and on the industries' [lack of] direction as a whole. Damn near impossible to get one of these things @ retail, I might add.

I will never, EVER spend hours of my life trying to get something like this again- it just isn't worth the upset when it all goes to ......



This is an issue that is pretty much specific to high-end rba's and mods, and I post mostly in the rba forum- so here it is. Hope you enjoy.

 

[j4mmin42]

Updated the link! Sorry about that

 

[ebbrey]

Most of the expensive stuff and i have a few of them arent worth it. You sit at your computer for days trying to score one and you pay like 140 dollars. It comes in the mail and its just tears anyway to get them to work. I think i have spent like 1500 dollars on gear and a vivi nova for 10 bucks is the best thing i have

 

[Technonut]

The Zenesis, and The Drawbacks of Extreme Exclusivity


​

Just a quick blog post on my attempts to acquire the Zenesis, and on the industries' [lack of] direction as a whole. Damn near impossible to get one of these things @ retail, I might add.

I will never, EVER spend hours of my life trying to get something like this again- it just isn't worth the upset when it all goes to ......



This is an issue that is pretty much specific to high-end RBA's and mods, and I post mostly in the RBA forum- so here it is. Hope you enjoy.

VERY well written blog post, and rings true.... (I have pre-paid, and been waiting on a certain mod since last April.. )

 

[gimmieshelter31]

My take on the Zenesis is that it seems to be extremely well made and engineered. When I first heard about it ,I went to Zen's thread and learned all I could. I was a bit late to the party as waiting lists and such were already filled. Signed up at HoH site for notifications and anticipated availability.

Since that time , these have been offered for sale rather rarely. A very few were sold at fair prices on the classies but most IMO were sold at asking prices that were opportunistic to be nice about it . I have spent enough time trying to acquire Zenesis and being disappointed that now , regardless of how wonderful a device it is, I doubt I would buy one .Sour grapes I guess.

 

[Technonut]

My take on the Zenesis is that it seems to be extremely well made and engineered. When I first heard about it ,I went to Zen's thread and learned all I could. I was a bit late to the party as waiting lists and such were already filled. Signed up at HoH site for notifications and anticipated availability.

Since that time , these have been offered for sale rather rarely. A very few were sold at fair prices on the classies but most IMO were sold at asking prices that were opportunistic to be nice about it . I have spent enough time trying to acquire Zenesis and being disappointed that now , regardless of how wonderful a device it is, I doubt I would buy one .Sour grapes I guess.

There is a new Classifieds rule in effect which limits profit on a non-discontinued item to 20% above retail. The Zens should meet that requirement.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-notice-new-classified-tools-please-read.html

 

[silversx]

very true.. lol zen's lack of production is pretty sad.. if you can't make enough why have these big "blow out" sales on vendor sites.. stick to the lists on vaporwall.. it's small time.. but hey.. if your production is small time.. then guess what.. YOU ARE SMALL TIME.

back when i really wanted a z atty pro.. i tried every where.. then it finally went on sale at provape.. i freaking made a mad dash in the middle of the day and actually got one before it sold out in minutes.. 2 days later i got it.. i took it out of the tube.. i was like.. that's it? this is it? it was a big huge chunk of steel that made my provari want to topple over.. i sold it the next day in the classifieds.. the only genesis i kept is my orion 2.1 which is perfect in size in my opinion..

i'm kinda of over the genesis thing.. now that they are everywhere.. along with the chinese versions.. if people want a genesis vapes that's easy.. if people want to buy the hype they can keep getting screwed over..

 

[shadco]

Great Blog post.

As much as I would like to have a ZAP it seems to me that someone is either in the business or not and as great as Zen's designs are seems to me he doesn't have a business. As for those that flip his devices for profit on this site "May a Camel ...."

 

[Faylool]

I am keeping as satisfied as possible on basics, and they aren't cheap things, and kind of like the computer technology stuff, eventually all the high priced expensive elite stuff will be available easily at a moderate price.

 

[ebbrey]

i'm kinda of over the genesis thing.. now that they are everywhere.. along with the chinese versions.. if people want a genesis vapes that's easy.. if people want to buy the hype they can keep getting screwed over..

So damn true!

 

[PhreakySTS9]

Yeah I too think it's absolutely ridiculous what people charge for these things. Sorry Zen, but I agree that a few pieces of metal and a piece of glass is in NO FRICKIN WAY worth $250+! It's just outrageous. Something like a GGTS that has a lot of different parts and all, yeah sure that makes a bit more sense but it's still overpriced, IMO. But even I find myself wondering what in the hell have I spent so much money on this stuff for?

 

[dredd0606]

Maybe it's because I'm a newb, or maybe a zen or zap is more of a status symbol among vapers (I know none that live close to me to show a status symbol to), but I personally don't get the hype about zen devices or hybrids in general! All they are is a genesis atomizer stuck on a battery tube with a mechanical switch instead of an electrical one. Why is this a fantastic must have?

Seriously, with vv-vw now available for $50, I honestly don't know why people would bother chasing a holy grail. Maybe if you're a collector, but I have enough other collections.

As far as RBAs go, the genesis and cobra clones do the same job their more expensive siblings do, for less than half the price!

I just don't get the hype. Maybe if the hybrids did something fantastic, or had some super cool feature, or were unbreakable, but for me, looks alone don't give me enough reason to drop a couple hundred dollars, especially when a $50 vv/vw mod and a $19 chobra gets the same or better performance!

Sorry to offend if I have, just my $0.02!

Dredd

 

[LucentShadow]

I have a hard time trying to empathize with the idea of this exclusivity. There's just no way that I can be bothered to go to all of the trouble involved, much less the expense involved.

I just ordered two BO-8 rebuildables from DV, and two A7 rebuildables from HDV a couple of days ago. Grand total of $52 plus shipping, as they were both on sale for $13. I suspect that I'll be happy with them, and my rebuilt vivi novas for about the same price.

 

[BuzzKilla]

I've come around to reality on this one...
I'm tired of seeing Prototype prices on production products...
I still laugh (on the inside) at people who pay $60+ for a tank that slides over a carto

This industry is evolving, and in a few months people wont even remember what a genesis is.
anyone remember when pyramid teabags were the in thing to do ?

My "fake" DID will do the job until i can find something of high quality, that will stand the test of time.

I will pay for high quality, just dont expect me to line up for weeks/months...

 

[paulishuku]

I dont understand what all the fuss is about really. I mean you all are the consumers and what set the price. Its basic economics. If you dont want to pay the price for the best then stick to what you are comfortable with. Do the knock offs perform as well as the hand turned, highest quality RBAs you can get? Prolly, Im not sure as I do not have one yet, but they're still not hand turned and hand crafted which is what you pay for. There's absolutely no reason to knock the guys or their products because you feel its too hard to get, or too expensive because it makes no sense.

Look at wood crafts for an example. There are wood carvers out there who can charge thousands of dollars because they dump hundreds of hours into their peices even though a machine can do it in less than 2 hours. But it's artwork, its a good old fashioned, hand labored, product. That's how I feel about these RBAs these guys make. I mean most of them have families or lives outside of making mods all day, so obviously they cant spend day and night working on these mods so no they're not going to have a crap ton of them for all the fanatics out there any given second. But i can tell you they're all extremely hard working, and brilliant to have come up with what they have. So even if they are making bank, they deserve it. If you really dug deep into the amount of hours they spent on each one and compared that to actual skilled labor rates that machinists make they probably deserve more money.

So anyways, I feel this thread is just kinda whiney.

 

[BuzzKilla]

I'm sorry but paulishuku , your post screams elitism...
If they were the best, there wouldn't be revisions. And for someone who doesn't own them, you really cant claim that they are the highest quality. I've seen my fair share of overlooked designs.

There is nothing miraculous about these mods. They are machined metal, putting them in the same category as hand crafted wood is just ridiculous. There is a big difference between hand crafted wood, and throwing a cad drawing into a CNC machine.

You're not paying for craftsmanship or high quality. you are paying for CNC time. That is the biggest part of the price tag.

The main point of this thread isn't about cost or craftsmanship, yes it has derailed a bit, but it was not the point.

If a manufacture is serious about creating a business then maybe they should take production out of the garage and the outsourced CNC shops, to get serious about about production. If not, leave it to the big boys.

The exclusivity or elitism is just an excuse for slow production.

my , dont take it to heart.

 

[paulishuku]

I'm not elitist by any means. I own Chinese mods and I like them. And I'm even excited to try new products that are Chinese or Korean or whatever it doesn't matter to me.

Not sure where you're getting the idea that they're cnc'd and if that's the case then I'm wrong in what I've said but I've seen some of these good quality RBAs hand machined on a metal lathe which is what I was referring to.

Correct me if I'm wrong but there is even a video out there of empire mods metal lathing some drip tips.

 

[BuzzKilla]

making drip tips and making a precision genesis style SS tank, are two very different beasts...

i would buy a really stiff drink for the person with the skills to make a rebuildable out of SS on a lathe.

 

[paulishuku]

making drip tips and making a precision genesis style SS tank, are two very different beasts...

i would buy a really stiff drink for the person with the skills to make a rebuildable out of SS on a lathe.

So now you're just refusing to believe they're hand turned? I know for a fact some high quality RBAs are hand turned, even titanium RBAs are hand turned.

 

[Roobs]

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