Why Exclusivity Doesn't Work

[silversx]

when i got my zen it had some swirls on the top cap like many others did..

i don't think we should single out zen's products.. i know he strives for top quality.. the point is.. if you can only do small batches there are venues to sell small batches..

if you don't want to produce large amounts either because you can't or you're afraid it won't sell then you shouldn't allow vendors to resell it until you can produce enough to meet demand and then some..

for small operations like zen it's a big risk to have a shop cnc 1000 pieces without knowing 1000 will sell.. if that's the case.. make a list and sell batches on vaporwall or whatever.. don't advertise 5 different resellers and supply each with 40 pieces..

when modders want to expand but don't want to take the risk that becomes a problem.. everybody wants to have their cake and eat it too

 

[iamtumus]

there are a few reasons behind it.
1) to increase demand artificially
2) to be able to QC better
3) i'm sure zen has interests beyond machining ecigs.

 

[j4mmin42]

there are a few reasons behind it.
1) to increase demand artificially

I agree with your other two reasons, but I'm pretty sure we can rule out the idea that he's trying to limit his supply intentionally to increase demand. I really do believe that he was only able to make a certain amount of them at any given time in the past (things are changing now, as he's got new equipment and a new shop). Does this mean that he hasn't taken full advantage of the short supply? No- you can see lots of examples of how he has created an artificial demand. I just wanted to be clear that he wasn't *causing* a supply shortage, per-se.

All in all, I agree those are some of the main reasons that things are the way they are, currently. Soon, there will be many more Zens available at a time- but who knows how long "soon" is, and whether or not the "new" Zens will hold a candle to the ones made on his old equipment.

 

[iamtumus]

it just seems like a perceivable idea as to why he would keep such low supply.
when you make 40 of an item per month, and continually push back the date they will sell (like has been happening with the zap at provape) people have been going somewhat crazy for it.

his business practices are shoddy to say the least and do nothing but help price gougers on the classifieds.

 

[silversx]

to be honest.. zen most likely wants to keep the exclusive status of his item just like many other modders because the minute you mass produce the desire to want it for some people goes away..

why? because some people don't want an item every joe blow can get.. they want to be the few "fan boys/girls" with the bragging rights to say hey look what i have and you don't.

many modders cater to this group and to mass produce is to kill their own business.. especially when genesis devices are all over the place both china made and boutique are readily available...

there's no problem with that business model..

there is a problem when modders say "geez.. selling to my fan boys and girls isn't really paying the bills or making me rich.. let me get some vendors to resell it so i can move more units.. but i'll only make barely enough so even my resellers are on their knees begging for more".. good business model!! cha ching..

i'm just saying.. lol

i think people have to understand.. there is no real "craftsmanship" in these devices.. you pay the machine shop to cnc 10 or 10000... it all comes from the same computer design.. no one actually hand crafts this stuff like a black smith using a hammer.. lol.. i think people get carried away as if the modders are in their shop working their hands to the bone to make one device... lol too funny

 

[PhreakySTS9]

I've come around to reality on this one...
I'm tired of seeing Prototype prices on production products...
I still laugh (on the inside) at people who pay $60+ for a tank that slides over a carto

This industry is evolving, and in a few months people wont even remember what a genesis is.
anyone remember when pyramid teabags were the in thing to do ?

My "fake" DID will do the job until i can find something of high quality, that will stand the test of time.

I will pay for high quality, just dont expect me to line up for weeks/months...

While you may be right, you can in no way compare a genesis with carts with tea bags and blue foam. Those didn't work worth squat! A genesis on the other hand, is probably the best vaping experience i've ever had. I don't care how many new things come out, i'll keep rocking my genesis' for as long as I vape.

 

[iamtumus]

i think people have to understand.. there is no real "craftsmanship" in these devices.. you pay the machine shop to cnc 10 or 10000... it all comes from the same computer design.. no one actually hand crafts this stuff like a black smith using a hammer.. lol.. i think people get carried away as if the modders are in their shop working their hands to the bone to make one device... lol too funny

the only device like this i'm really involved with is my ihybrid.
and he machines all the metal himself.
the only thing faceless doesn't do himself (afaik) is make renders and convert them to usable form for his cnc machine.
he innovates it all, comes up with his own ideas, and makes it all himself.

 

[BuzzKilla]

A genesis on the other hand, is probably the best vaping experience i've ever had. I don't care how many new things come out, i'll keep rocking my genesis' for as long as I vape.

That's what used to be said for cartomizers, "Cartridge and atomizer combined... AMAZEBALLZ!",
and the carto tank was eventually born form that....

Something else will come out that will knock the socks off a genesis style tank. may be a year, may be 5... but it will happen.

e-cigs are evolving very fast, its up to us as the hobbiests to keep pushing for innovation rather than duplication.

 

[j4mmin42]

Just a quick update on my situation: For those of you that read the blog post, you'll remember that I was one of the unlucky 21 people who got oversold on a Zen (paid for and everything). Well, I've been in communication with ENS now by email, and after much communication, two days ago Jason had told me that they *might* be able to substitute a Mini or an ASH for the standard, and get it shipped to me today.

Well, one of his employees emailed me today and said that was not gonna happen. Looks like I'm going to have to wait nearly two more weeks.

Needless to say I'm not happy right now.

Edit: aand now I got them to substitute a mini for the standard! So I'll finally have a Zen mod on its way soon! Thanks ENS

 

[silversx]

why do you want a zen anyways.. if you dont want to wait.. get ihybrid

 

[j4mmin42]

why do you want a zen anyways.. if you dont want to wait.. get ihybrid

Funny you should say that... I paid for my iHy 3 weeks ago and it was supposed to ship today; It also won't be ready to ship until sometime next week.

 

[Technonut]

why do you want a zen anyways.. if you dont want to wait.. get ihybrid

Or this new kid on the block:


http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-titanium-genisis-p-v-s-bluefoxvapor-com.html

 

[jherron]

silversx if y/ou lived closer to me and i would invite you into my workshop for a day to hang out to watch the number of processes it takes to make one single atomizer. if your one who enjoys getting there hands dirty id walk you through making your own . I love to collect hand made devices whether it be vaping or other hobbies or interests , theres a certain soul a device has when it has been crafted by another mans(or womans) hands. I remember back when i was a child I was on a school field trip where we were in a gift shop that sold hand made wooden toys and even at a young age I was amazed of this . There are quite a few of us out there getting our hands dirty

 

[j4mmin42]

Or this new kid on the block:


http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-titanium-genisis-p-v-s-bluefoxvapor-com.html

Great mod, but that one has a month-long wait attached to it...

 

[j4mmin42]

Zen mini on it's way! Whew, that was nerve-wracking.

Yeah, I really wanted the standard, but a Zen is a Zen.

 

[silversx]

silversx if y/ou lived closer to me and i would invite you into my workshop for a day to hang out to watch the number of processes it takes to make one single atomizer. if your one who enjoys getting there hands dirty id walk you through making your own . I love to collect hand made devices whether it be vaping or other hobbies or interests , theres a certain soul a device has when it has been crafted by another mans(or womans) hands. I remember back when i was a child I was on a school field trip where we were in a gift shop that sold hand made wooden toys and even at a young age I was amazed of this . There are quite a few of us out there getting our hands dirty

the vendors we talk about are the ones who out source to a cnc shop..

by the way.. you carve the steel with your hands? that's quite the feat! lol

 

[j4mmin42]

Up until recently, Zen was using a traditional lathe, not a CNC lathe. So technically his mods were done by hand in the past.

 

[spraintz]

Ya know what, I look at a precisely machined piece of steel they way some would look at a priceless piece of art, I think it is mesmerizing. Sometimes I take my BliSS apart just to look it in awe

Now, I appreciate a good atomizer/mod much more if it was hand turned on a lathe but when it comes to functionality I could give a duck fart whether it was machined by hand or on a cnc.

I feel that most people buy these high end devices for a couple of reasons:

They look cool(guilty). Let's face it, the high end atomizers just plain look awesome.
Specific function. I think people will buy a particular atomizer for the unique abilities or options it might have.

I own a G-Tank-US, AC9 and a BliSS. Each one of them has some of the best machine work I have seen and look great yet each one serves very different purposes for me.

In regards to "exclusivity" I fear that in this extremely fast-moving rebuildable atomizer market the high end stuff like Z-Atty's and BliSS and AC9 and DiD will have far less sale as new-comers to the RBA world have $12-$30 readily available options that function great and almost look as cool, but who knows hopefully they won't. Future is hard to see, think about it, could anybody on here honestly know 3 months ago that this many mass produced redily available atomizers would be on the market? Doubt it.

Are the super high priced atomizers "worth it"? Who knows, only the buyer can decide that. All I know is that there is no way I could take plans to my local machine shop and have them turn out an exact replica of my Bliss for anywhere near the $130 I paid for it so for me, yes....well worth it.

Is it worth paying $250 - $300 for a ZAU just because they are hard to find? Once again, I guess it is to somebody, it does happen although I think that is a lil outrageous.

 

[jherron]

the vendors we talk about are the ones who out source to a cnc shop..

by the way.. you carve the steel with your hands? that's quite the feat! lol

the trick to that is you got sharpen your finger nails on a bench grinder first and then you can cut through titanium if you wanted , but not wolverines claws that requires special tooling