Why my friend quit smoking e-cigs - Do you find this also?

[Hellen A. Handbasket]

I'm one that just doesn't get it all from vaping... I did loads of research on line and found this great explaination of what is going on in our brains when we smoke (and why vaping doesn't get it for everyone):

This is your brain on nicotine

The above is based on the studies by Joanna Fowler done in 1996.

There are several studies where data suggests that MAOIs contained in tobacco and tobacco smoke act in synergy with nicotine to enhance its rewarding effects and that feel good we got from smoking (and miss when vaping).

If you find this interesting, a great read is DVap's blog on this subject which is summarized info by ECF member MadamePsychosis http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/dvap/642-madame-psychosis-summary-pt-1.html and Part 2 http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/dvap/643-madame-psychosis-summary-pt-2.html

 

[Valsacar]

Interesting, maybe I had such an easy time is because I take MAOI's regularly due to a back injury...

 

[skex]

I've been doing a lot of thinking lately about how I was successful in quitting analogues while so many people I know who also tried Ecigs were not. And the more I think about it I'm really beginning to think that the fact that I was taking Welbutrin at the time made a huge difference.

I think the problem many people who start vaping to quit analogues have is they expect the vape to completely replace the cigarette. Yet as much of the information in this thread shows there is a hell of a lot more to the smoking experience and subsequent addiction than just the nicotine.

I went through definite smoking withdrawal while switching to vaping including bad gas and the general fuzzy feeling associated with withdrawal. And I think for me at least the added calmness provided by the Welbutrin was the key that let me force through that stuff.

 

[John Phoenix]

The only thing about the sweeter flavored juice theory is that as far asI know they don't use sugar for sweetener.... I would think if they did it would wreak havoc on your equipment.

Ahh.. good point. I didn't think of that. Do you know the cocoa flavored juices, are they containing any real cocoa or is it artificially flavored?

~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for all the great replies so far. And for the links above. I am really enjoying reading them. You guys ROCK Socks!

With the information in these links and our combined research we may be able to put together some strategies to help make our e-cigarette use more effective.

A couple of you mentioned the calming effect. I didn't know you didn't get this with nicotine. ( my kit arrives any minute now)

That's one thing I will miss too. Perhaps we can find something else to help with this? I used to use Kava kava extract years ago which provides a calming effect.. perhaps something over the counter like that?

 

[John Phoenix]

I'm one that just doesn't get it all from vaping... I did loads of research on line and found this great explaination of what is going on in our brains when we smoke (and why vaping doesn't get it for everyone):

This is your brain on nicotine

The above is based on the studies by Joanna Fowler done in 1996.

There are several studies where data suggests that MAOIs contained in tobacco and tobacco smoke act in synergy with nicotine to enhance its rewarding effects and that feel good we got from smoking (and miss when vaping).

If you find this interesting, a great read is DVap's blog on this subject which is summarized info by ECF member MadamePsychosis http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/dvap/642-madame-psychosis-summary-pt-1.html and Part 2 http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/dvap/643-madame-psychosis-summary-pt-2.html

This is your brain on nicotine article ties in closely with the " Professor: Nicotine does not cause cigarette addiction " article I posted on page 1. So I got to searching and here are some natural MAO A and B Inhibitors

Selective MAO-A inhibitors
Befloxatone
Brofaromine (Consonar)
Cimoxatone
Clorgyline
Curcumin (found in turmeric)
Harmala alkaloids (found in tobacco, syrian rue, passion flower, and ayahausca)
Harmine
Harmaline
Tetrahydroharmine
Methylene Blue
Minaprine (Cantor)
Moclobemide (Aurorix, Manerix)
Pirlindole (Pirazidol)
Toloxatone (Humoryl)
Tyrima (CX157)

Selective MAO-B inhibitors
Catechin (found in cat's claw)
Desmethoxyyangonin (found in kava kava)
Epicatechin (also found in cat's claw)
Fo-Ti (active constituent unknown)
Hydroxytyrosol (found in olive oil)
Lazabemide
Pargyline (Eutonyl)
Piperine (found in pepper)
Rasagiline (Azilect)
Selegiline (Deprenyl, Emsam)

Source: Natural MAO-B inhibitors? - Mind and Muscle Forums - Go to the website to follow each one of these's links to more information on each one.

If smokers indeed have an elevated level of brain dopamine, it could have implications for smoking cessation, Fowler speculates. With more dopamine, they might be happier, more content, and bound to their habit by a mechanism that involves the MAO B inhibitor substance as well as nicotine. So just as cigarette quitters sometimes receive nicotine replacement therapy, "it may make sense to give MAO B inhibitors" to lessen the shock of drug withdrawal, Fowler says.

I see Kava Kava is listed which is known to have a calming effect. It all is starting to tie together.

The MadamePsychosis links above have awesome information on MOA Inhibitors and e-cigs.

The more I research the more this looks like this IS the KEY to what my friends were missing. I am going to get some natural MOA Inhibitors and try using them from the start as soon as my package arrives.

Thanks so much for those links Hellen A. Handbasket !!

 

[jj2]

Here's a list of 599 additives approved by the US Government---and they say they care.

There's thousand known more and who knows the unknown number.

The List of Additives in Cigarettes - Additives in Cigarettes

 

[John Phoenix]

Addition:

But It's Not just the MAO Inhibitors. As is stated on page 3 of Madame Psychosis Summary: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/dvap/644-madame-psychosis-summary-pt-3.html

It's also the non-nicotine alkaloids that make up the rest of chemicals found in tobacco.

5. Conclusion
If you need just nicotine, and the behavioral act of “smoking”, vaping will be plenty.
If you need the other alkaloids in tobacco, vaping will not be enough.

For those of us in the latter group, we've spent our time in this thread trying to figure out how to regain the sense of balance we had with smoking, without reverting to cigarettes.

As many have found, the best fix to stay off cigarettes and obtain those whole alkaloids is reduced-harm smokeless tobacco – snus and snuff.

Don't think of it as "reverting" to tobacco. In reality, you are incurring far fewer risks than you were with smoking. See this http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/smokeless-tobacco/80061-beginners-guide-snus.html for a start

So E-cigs, MAO Inhibitors and non-nicotine alkaloids (snus) should all work together to give you as close as possible to all the things you got from cigarettes to help make quitting easier.

I however will not be trying the snus, just the MAOI's. I tried chewing tobacco once and hated it - made me really sick. Snus is just chewing tobacco in a tea bag like pouch so you dont get the stuff all over your teeth and have to spit. ( from what I read- correct me if I'm wrong) still grosses me out and i'm not easily grossed out.

Since page 3 has been written Star Scientific has come out with their non-nicotine whole alkaloid pill. Like snus, this is supposed to contain the rest of the alkaloids your missing.

Many of us were cheered by the announcement that Star Scientific has been working on a “tobacco alkaloid pill”, and you can read about it here.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/84559-tobacco-alkaloid-pill.html it's called CigRX. If I was going to try anything, I'd rather try that along with some MAOI's.

WARNING ! Taking MAOI's even those found in common foods CAN cause severe adverse reactions even death when taken in conjunction with certain prescription medications. Know what you are taking!!

 

[Cil]

Odd thing, went in to hosptial for 3 days last week - Didn't have my PV and didn't miss it or cigs, if I have been smoking I would have been pulling my hair out and everyone elses.

 

[JWebb]

This thread has lots of great information,thanks

 

[Fazed]

Fascinating stuff! Subscribed!


Sent via cellular communication device...

 

[Hellen A. Handbasket]

I forgot to post the link to Part III: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/dvap/644-madame-psychosis-summary-pt-3.html even though it is at the bottom of page 2 thought it would be good to have them all here. MP's posts are wonderful. If you search the forum (use the Google search at the top of each ECF page for the best results) you can find all kinds of threads on MAOI's, herbs that help and other similar threads.

Here is the search for MAOI info in all ECF threads: MAOI - Google Search
As you can see, it's been a topic for a long time.

This is interesting and probably something I'll try soon (posted by Exegesis and added to by MP) http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...al-infusion-tea-reduce-nicotine-fixation.html I went cold turkey off of coffee 6 days ago so could use something good for me as a replacement and to give me some calm.

@ John - Your right. Many have had great results with using snus and snuff in addition to e-cigs to get some of those alkaloids back in the mix. I fought the suggestion of trying snuff but when I gave in I found it is really pretty great (and for me) it's better than snus. It took some getting use to using it right but it does the job. I did use them both for a while (and they helped) but quit when I started having severe gastric issues. A year later, gastric issues are still here so now I suspect my issues are being caused by the flavoring chemicals in the one e-liquid I've been using all year and was just made worse by the snus. Not sure how I'll get back on track. I'm still playing around with it all and it's frustrating as hell (and yeah, I'm back to smoking some again... *sighhhh*). I started using snuff again today to help curb as many ciggies as I can and I'm feeling pretty good right now. I'm also vaping some very low or zero menthol liquid when I feel the urge to blow smoke since obviously, the nicotine is coming from the snuff and it'll keep me from going overboard on the nic (I have always vaped like I have a pacifier ).

If any of you need to get your happy back, look in to the smokeless section here on the forum for info on snus and snuff or the tobacco disolvables:
Smokeless tobacco for helpful threads that explain the products and how to use them.

For anyone thinking that snus or snuff is a nasty habit. Don't worry, you won't look like a baseball player or cowboy spitting chew... this stuff is different and relatively clean (no spitting, not loose tobacco either, it's in a clean little teabag like packet that tucks in and isn't seen by anyone). You can ask questions on any of the threads there (or start a new one). There are a great bunch of people there who "get it" and can help you with questions.

 

[Shantia]

I don't get the first cigarette of the day buzz anymore with vaping. I sort of miss that.

 

[kelleymcm]

John glad to see your researching the MAOI & other additives stuff ...
It is so hard to read everyones rambling about nicotine ...
after you have read & somewhat understand all the MAOI & other additive info .
But it is HARD to explain all the "Nicotine is NOT any more addictive than Caffeine" by itself that is & the problem is that we are missing....blah blah blah ..... ..... & get folks to listen to you...let alone understand !

So I have given that up Good luck & more power to you !!

One of the most informative threads(IMO) is the Beta Carboline MAOIs that is listed in the Nicotine area of the FORUM within the Health and Medical Issues subforum . There is a lot of great info in that part of the Forum.

You guys have amassed a lot of info in this thread that I have NOT READ yet ...so I guess I'm off to start reading . Thanks I THINK ???

 

[DVap]

There is one inescapable fact that we need to keep in mind, nothing is more like a cigarette than a cigarette.

Short of outright quitting tobacco and nicotine containing products, we substitute something for that cigarette, and we get something for it (harm reduction) at the cost of something else (nothing satisfies quite like a real smoke).

Interestingly enough, the anti-tobacco folks who would deny us alternatives to smoking (the "quit or die" crowd who I hold in high contempt) see this in black and white. Anything that would help a smoker to quit that seems anything remotely like tobacco is condemned as something foiling the smoker's chance to quit by giving the smoker an excuse to continue tobacco product use. On second thought, I'd better not get going on the anti-tobacco crowd... those who know me here know I get really hot just thinking about these b*stards. Not the folks who are interesting in HELPING, but the ones who insist on moralizing from on high with condemnation in their hearts.