Why the hate on for recreational vapers?

[amolson]

My take on it is the more 0 nic vapers out there, the better for the vaping community as a whole. Hear me out now.

Imagine if vaping hadn't come about from smoking. No relationship whatsoever. Just another thing like chewing gum or chocolate. What would that have been like? "Hey, look, there are these really cool flavors to play with that have no calories and won't destroy my teeth! I can suck on this peppermint all day and it never gets nasty. A hundred sip frappachino with no calories for less than a buck. This is great!" Even sugar free candy and gum can cause problems like digestive upsets. Not to mention having more bizarre chemicals than ejuice. Especially 0 nic, VG only, no alcohol, organic. (See Virgin Vapors for examples of these. I can't wait to get mine. I have 11 samples I'm waiting for from them. One of which is their white wine. Wine, no alcohol, at work, sounds great to me!)

And then there are the mechanical issues with gum or candy consumption. Gum can cause jaw muscle fatigue, dental work damage and the like. I have a shattered wisdom tooth, so for me gum is right out. Not to mention disposing of gum, the sounds people make while chewing it and the fact it goes flavorless really quickly. vaping doesn't die off like gum does and while I love Altoids, more than one or two in a row gets really nasty. Not to mention the whole issue about kids vaping 0 nic, which I don't see any more a problem with than them chewing gum, less actually. Vapor doesn't get stuck in someone's hair or destroy their teeth.

I know a lot of people who tried to stop smoking using gum, candy, chewing on straws, etc. Should kids not be allowed to do those things? It's the whole, correlation/causation problem. Human beings LOVE to attribute causes to correlations. For example, the correlation between shark attacks and ice cream sales is nearly perfect. Does this mean if you ban ice cream you'll prevent shark attacks? Of course not. It just means they happen to be related in some way, namely people eat more ice cream AND swim in the ocean more in the summer. Or the "Diet soda makes people fat because more fat people than skinny people drink diet soda." routine. To quote Billy Currington, "People are crazy."

I think the ideal would be to marginalize the nicotine thing and create a whole generation of 0 nic vapers as camouflage. "Hey, this isn't a cigarette. What's your problem? Oh, sure, some people might use it for nicotine, but me, oh, no, of course I'd never do any such thing."

Of course there's also the whole, "People should never do anything for fun. If you're doing something for the sheer pleasure of it, stop right now! We can't let you have fun. That's immoral/illegal/unethical." Whatever. Get a life. Get a job or three. Mind your own business. At the very least, move to California.

 

[B2L]

I have no issues with recreational vaping, I agree that the more the merrier.

I do think it should be restricted to those over 18 as far as sales go as it is linked to smoking. We all know it isn't a gateway to using cigarettes but the media has the general public convinced that it is, and public perception is very important at this stage of the game.

As far as why the hate, I see a lot of the recreational/new vapers doing it because it is "cool" and wanting to start out blowing huge clouds therefore doing sub ohm builds without any understanding how it works and how to be safe. As important as public perception is, not giving ammunition to the antis is even more important and that is threatened when the inevitable happens due to carelessness/ignorance/down right stupidity.

 

[Razorback]

amolson - Good post! But yes, over 18 only.

 

[Baditude]

I used to be against recreational vapers using 0-nic flavors. Vapers were using e-cigarettes to stop smoking tobacco, why would a non-smoker want to begin a new "habit" if they were not previously a smoker? Then my college-age daughter convinced me with another point of view.

She was not a smoker, but ALL of her friends were including her BF and older brother. Like most younger adults, they would "hang out" and just smoke cigarettes and my daughter was feeling the pressure to join them. I had tried to convince my son to stop smoking and use one of my e-cigarettes, but he didn't like it as well as his cigarettes even though just a couple of years earlier he was a non-smoker and telling me I should quit.

My daughter asked for her own mod for her birthday, to use 0-nicotine flavors with her friends. Recalling that I started smoking at her age because of peer pressure, I thought why not let her try it if it might keep her from starting smoking?

Since she began vaping 1 year ago, her BF and a couple of her friends have begun vaping and successfully stopped smoking. Even her brother (my son) is now vaping. I guess its cool if Sis vapes, although I wasn't able to convince him myself.

Because of the exposure to my daughter vaping 0-nicotine flavors, several people in her social group have stopped smoking. They likely would never have tried it without seeing her vape. Now what could be wrong with that?

 

[Equilibrium]

Doesn't bother me and besides, who am I to question what another adult does?

 

[twgbonehead]

Amen, Baditude!

I think people lose sight of the fact that even with all the anti-smoking pressure, 4000 kids/day try a cigarette, and 1000 of them will go on to become regular smokers.

But if 4000 kids/day tried an e-cigarette instead, the media and the ANTZ would be screaming their heads off.

 

[Marc411]

Doesn't bother me and besides, who am I to question what another adult does?

Exactly....

 

[Vaslovik]

I don't care what motivates any vaper. It's their life and their money.

 

[auburty13]

I used to be against recreational vapers using 0-nic flavors. Vapers were using e-cigarettes to stop smoking tobacco, why would someone want to begin a "habit" if they were not previously a smoker. Then my college-age daughter convinced me with another point of view.

She was not a smoker, but ALL of her friends were including her BF and older brother. Like most younger adults, they would "hang out" and just smoke cigarettes and my daughter was feeling the pressure to join them. I had tried to convince my son to stop smoking and use one of my e-cigarettes, but he didn't like it as well as his cigarettes even though just a couple of years earlier he was a non-smoker and telling me I should quit.

My daughter asked for her own mod for her birthday, to use 0-nicotine flavors with her friends. Recalling that I started smoking at her age because of peer pressure, I thought why not let her try it if it might keep her from starting smoking?

Since she began vaping 1 year ago, her BF and a couple of her friends have begun vaping and successfully stopped smoking. Even her brother (my son) is now vaping. I guess its cool if Sis vapes, although I wasn't able to convince him myself.

Because of the exposure to my daughter vaping 0-nicotine flavors, several people in her social group have stopped smoking. They likely would never have tried it without seeing her vape. Now what could be wrong with that?

As a college student that vapes I like seeing stuff like this. I've seen so many of my peers start smoking because of others doing it.

 

[RageKage]

I have no issues with recreational vapers, but I also agree that it should be 18+ since there's no way to visually differentiate between 0 nic or otherwise.

 

[Dayglow]

I wonder if rec vaping had come first if people would still be so up in arms about vaping in public. I consider myself a rec vaper as I never smoked much, but still do enjoy the occasional cigar or other item, but I also use the nicotine as a form of self medication for my ADD. I can regulate my usage as I need and avoid the peaks, crashes, and slow onset of oral meds. It's not a perfect world, but I am happy living in it.

 

[skoony]

Amen, Baditude!

I think people lose sight of the fact that even with all the anti-smoking pressure, 4000 kids/day try a cigarette, and 1000 of them will go on to become regular smokers.

But if 4000 kids/day tried an e-cigarette instead, the media and the ANTZ would be screaming their heads off.

the antz are going to scream their heads off any about one thing or another.interesting though is when you referenced 1000 out of 4000 kids who tried cigarettes will become smokers.it completly debunks the antz gateway theory.i have often said if nicotine was as addictive as they say well over half the adult population would be smokers.
regards
mike

 

[PandaAttack]

I'm of the belief that it is definitely not my (nor is it anyone else's) place to tell other adults what they can and cannot put into their bodies. Period. Want to vape? Do it. Want to smoke? Do it. Want neither? Abstain away! We all have information about risk/harm/harm reduction readily available to us. Use that information to make your own decisions and don't let anyone pressure you into doing (or not doing) something. Would I like to see more people trade smoking for vaping? Absolutely, but I'm not going to pressure someone into making that switch, just as I would never pressure someone to start (or not start).

 

[twgbonehead]

the antz are going to scream their heads off any about one thing or another.interesting though is when you referenced 1000 out of 4000 kids who tried cigarettes will become smokers.it completly debunks the antz gateway theory.i have often said if nicotine was as addictive as they say well over half the adult population would be smokers.
regards
mike

By the way, those numbers come directly from the American Cancer Society (and refer to US underage smokers only)
http://www.cancer.org/acs/groups/cid/documents/webcontent/002963-pdf.pdf

 

[amolson]

Maybe sales, but I don't think it 0 nic should be adult use only. I think it should be parent controlled, which the sales restriction does, but after that, it's up to them to make sure if their kids are vaping, they're vaping 0 nic. Just like with alcohol. I drank a LOT of near beer as a kid. Living in the desert, after a while, I got really tired of water and sweet drinks. Had problems buying it a few times as well. Hrmph.

And the "cool" thing, well, there are people who have fits about same sex couples holding hands or kissing in public. I lived in the south and saw the old separate bathrooms and water fountains. Discrimination and prejudice against people who never hurt anyone else, even 'for their own good' isn't right. If someone is doing something unsafe, teach them. Don't shove them in a closet or an oven.

"Not giving ammunition ... " doesn't work either. I've been honored and privileged to have talked with more than one person who personally survived the Holocaust. I won't play the appeasement game. My choice. In their memory, if nothing else, I will never forget the cost of giving in to tyranny.

Calm, polite civil disobedience and unity works. Throwing those with pink triangles to the wolves to save yourself only results in well fed wolves who are better able to get you when your time comes.

If everyone who vaped (was not straight, was Jewish, was Catholic, was Atheist, was Muslim, was ... ) was willing to calmly, quietly stand up and say, "No, I will not pander to your ignorance and prejudice. I'm not hurting anyone. Leave me alone or have me arrested." it might not change things immediately, but after they arrest a hundred million or more people things might change.

Heck, I may well be there in a few months. Even if I hadn't started vaping, I still wouldn't be turning in any of my students who want to vape in the lab where I work. (It's a computer lab, not a chemical lab.) We allow food and drink, so I think vaping is should also be allowed, even though the board of regents has said it is now against regulations.

It's not right and I'm not giving in. I teach. Teaching these kids to be engineers doesn't just mean technical skills, it means teaching them to be adults. Sometimes that means standing on your hind legs and saying 'No'.

 

[amolson]

Heh, I started smoking all those years ago (I was 19-20, something like that) because, "If you got 'em, smoke 'em. If you don't keep working."

It's also why I KEPT doing it. If I wanted a break at work, the only way I was going to get one was to 'go outside for a smoke'. I had a friend who would borrow cigarettes from me, not light them, then give them back at the end of the break just so she could go outside a few times a day. One place I worked, every single employee smoked. Again, "If you got 'em ..." It was 10 hours a day, 6 days a week, sometimes 7, hard manual labor. Just getting to sit down every couple hours was heaven. So what if you had to smoke to get it? NO ONE remained a non-smoker there after about 2-3 hours. Although I saw more ultra-super-duper lights at that place than anywhere else I've ever been.

Not everyone can work 10-12-14 hours straight without a break, even if you can. I'm even finding more than 6-8 without a chance to get up and move around more than just to the bathroom and back to be getting harder and harder as I get older. I get stiff after a couple hours. Even moving around in my chair to fiddle with something that isn't the keyboard and monitor helps keep me from seizing up like an old engine.

Heh, there's the reason for a specialty dripping rig. Break time!!!

And I think that's a major reason a lot of people, when coming into the work force, start smoking. If you're carrying a pack of cigarettes and a lighter, people will let you out the door. Otherwise, you don't have an excuse to take a break. College students, too. I know my fave time for a smoke was when I had some code that just wasn't working. I'd get up, go outside, walk around, have a smoke, think about it, then come back in and it would work.

Hmmm, might be while I prefer smaller tanks. I have to get up every few hours to refill at least one of them.

 

[Lurch]

Baditude makes a good point. I just hope it doesn't support the anti-vaping groups with more ammo in their endeavors to crush vaping.

 

[PorkchopReg]

I'm a perfect example..
Wife was pack-a-day smoker, I only smoked Cigars
Wife bought our first E-cig, I got a sample.

Here we are three months later, wife is three months without any smokes, my best friend is now a non-smoker, his workplace has 5-6 people that are vaping now, and I am a rec vaper. Working on the Parents to use the e-cigs, and guys on the baseball team.

All stemming from a rec vaper, that got interested in E-Cig (First researched the health aspect), and now out in the world helping others understand what E-cigs are, and how they are 0.00001 less dangerous than the burners.

 

[edyle]

I get the feeling it's like a young guy who soups up a car with big loud v8 and no muffler, goes speeding and ducking in an out of traffic and when people complain, he goes:

Why the hate on driving?

 

[amolson]

I think you hit the real problem on the head there. It's the fact that people can't distinguish between the jerk on the freeway misbehaving and those who bracket race old muscle cars or do vintage car shows on weekends.

It's a sad thing, and you're right. The way our society, culture and media work now is that they pick out the bad actor from any group, then use that one to bully anyone else they can get to. The really ridiculous half naked ugly drag queen gets used to ban people of the same gender form living together. The child molester with the pentagram tattooed on his forehead means priests can't be allowed to speak to a child in private. NO. I won't do it. You and no one else can make me do that.

Even with all the years I've fought against prejudice for other reasons, my first reaction on that is to flinch and go, well, then ... no.

It's not about the loud pipes, or the big V8, it's about the actual harm done to others. The noise and the endangerment, not the car.

Don't let 'them' force you to play their game.