Why Vapers are getting a BAD NAME.

[sonicdsl]

Stop pointing fingers at each other... stop the name-calling... stop the snarky responses... this is not how we expect the behavior to be at ECF.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-forum-rules/51178-forum-rules.html

7. Courtesy
a. Members must be polite at all times. When addressing another Forum user, you will be polite. Courteous discussion is welcome here but heated and abusive argument is not. If attacked you are not allowed to respond in kind. Instead use the Private Message system and try to resolve matters privately and amicably. If problems persist ask for the help of a Moderator.

 

[Jay-dub]

Once again: How do you propose we get that $$$$$$ when CASAA can only have 10,000 members and it costs nothing to join?
Do you have a few million dollars to employ some lobbyists and fly them around to every podunk to wine and dine and fight against every local ban? Will you answer this time or will you simply go on another rant about how you're not an extremist to dodge the question?

For me, I don't always want to approach something with reasoning of why we can't do anything. A hopeless perspective. But we're arguing in a vacuum here. I'm tired of arguing... I think the conclusions drawn from this page should be self-evident.

 

[Jman8]

I would also say it is the 'thou shall not' side that creates the gulf. Let's use another vaping subject to help make that more clear.

If I am one who uses a cigalike (which I do), and I were to come onto a vaping forum and say...

Cigalikes are the proper, common sense approach to vaping. If you are not using a cigalike when you are vaping, you are giving vaping a bad name. You shouldn't be using other devices because that confuses people who don't know what the heck you are up to. It is disrespectful, nay rude, to use anything but a cigalike. Go ahead and try and convince me otherwise, but are you really that much of an addict that you can't listen to reason? Also, if I were to see you in public using anything but a cigalike, I'd report you and laugh while you got kicked out. You deserve it!

Oh, and just to be clear, as a sole cigalike user, I highly disagree with that first sentence. But mix a little righteous propriety with a 'thou shall not' attitude and it works wonders for shaming. Like how bout this,

Vaping without nicotine is the proper and common sense approach to vaping. You should do as I do, and be respectful when vaping by not using nicotine. Anyone that vapes nicotine in public is ruining it for vapers everywhere. It is those type of vapers that are causing all these bans we are seeing now. There really can't be any other explanation for those bans than some addicts who can't control what they vape, and need their fix even if it means disrespecting everyone around them.

 

[Anjaffm]

Put more simply:

one side is saying you can do this (vape respectfully)

the other side is saying you shouldn't do this (vape in public)

The gulf comes from trying to reason with the "Thou shall not" crowd, where every reason appears as, 'really, you're that much of an addict that you can't agree that you shouldn't vape in public.'

thank you, dear. You have summed this up very clearly indeed.

 

[Anjaffm]

I think my efforts are going to be spent focusing on getting a task done. Not on trying to get attention by putting down others.

Wonderful, thank you very much.
Every person counts in vaping advocacy.

 

[jwoode]

Put more simply:

one side is saying you can do this (vape respectfully)

the other side is saying you shouldn't do this (vape in public)

The gulf comes from trying to reason with the "Thou shall not" crowd, where every reason appears as, 'really, you're that much of an addict that you can't agree that you shouldn't vape in public.'

Actually.. there is another aspect.

"one side is saying you can do this (vape respectfully)"

"the other side is saying you shouldn't do this (vape in public)"

Then another group is saying there is a substantial grey area in between.

it's not an all or nothing issue.. just saying.

 

[Uma]

Hopefully some day soon, journalists will begin covering etiquette, stealth vaping, etc, everything that the ALA. ACS, etc should already be doing. Hopefully they will expound on the fact that SHV is 100xs safer than SHS and hopefully they'll finally get the point across that even exhaled SHS is only pesty & not proven deadly as exaggerated by anti-smokers. Hopefully the journalists will do educational outlines of what each label truly represents. Labels such as:
SmokeFree
Anti-smoking
Adulterated nicotine within the real cigarettes
Unadulterated nicotine within the eCig.
Traces vs thresholds
Free market vs monopolies

 

[wv2win]

Once again: How do you propose we get that $$$$$$ when CASAA can only have 10,000 members and it costs nothing to join?
Do you have a few million dollars to employ some lobbyists and fly them around to every podunk to wine and dine and fight against every local ban? Will you answer this time or will you simply go on another rant about how you're not an extremist to dodge the question?

Very well stated. Clearly outlines the current, practical reality that the vast majority of vapers are not willing to put forth the time, effort or money to support their ability to vape freely.

For me, I don't always want to approach something with reasoning of why we can't do anything. A hopeless perspective. But we're arguing in a vacuum here. I'm tired of arguing... I think the conclusions drawn from this page should be self-evident.

Completely irrelevant, impractical and provides no realistic option to support vaping as it currently exists. And yet, the only organization supporting consumers in the vaping world, CASAA, is vilified and/or not supported by some who have posted in this thread.

 

[Myk]

For me, I don't always want to approach something with reasoning of why we can't do anything. A hopeless perspective. But we're arguing in a vacuum here. I'm tired of arguing... I think the conclusions drawn from this page should be self-evident.

For me, I don't suggest a pie in the sky is the solution unless I have an idea of how to get that pie into the sky.
I actually agree, a lobbyist would be good, as would a publicity company to create a spokesperson. The problem is affording those and keeping the representation to the consumer and not the businesses.
I know it was mentioned on Click Bang but never heard anything more, and their solution ultimately required business money.
Sure, a pie in the sky is a great idea, now how do we go about getting it there?

 

[Jman8]

Actually.. there is another aspect.

"one side is saying you can do this (vape respectfully)"

"the other side is saying you shouldn't do this (vape in public)"

Then another group is saying there is a substantial grey area in between.

it's not an all or nothing issue.. just saying.

The "you can do this, respectfully" side is the gray side.

The "don't vape in public" side is the "or nothing" part of the equation.

 

[jwoode]

The "you can do this, respectfully" side is the gray side.

The "don't vape in public" side is the "or nothing" part of the equation.

with all due respect, I disagree.
there are places where vaping is not appropriate.
trusting people to be respectful would work in those places about as well as it does in this forum.

 

[wv2win]

with all due respect, I disagree.
there are places where vaping is not appropriate.
trusting people to be respectful would work in those places about as well as it does in this forum.

There is a small minority in every sub-group, club, organization, etc who are less respectful in whatever endeavor they are participating in. That's life. Fortunately the majority usually recognizes this fact of life and do not over-react to it.

Second, where ever you think vaping is not appropriate may be fine for some others. People should be able to figure that out on their own in their own locales.

 

[Jman8]

with all due respect, I disagree.
there are places where vaping is not appropriate.
trusting people to be respectful would work in those places about as well as it does in this forum.

Hence, it being a gray area. Some would be respectful, some may not. The "or nothing" side of the equation says, "doesn't matter if you would be respectful here, it is disallowed, and is not open for discussion."

I am always curious what those places are that are inherently inappropriate to vape. Care to name them?

 

[Jay-dub]

For me, I don't suggest a pie in the sky is the solution unless I have an idea of how to get that pie into the sky.
I actually agree, a lobbyist would be good, as would a publicity company to create a spokesperson. The problem is affording those and keeping the representation to the consumer and not the businesses.
I know it was mentioned on Click Bang but never heard anything more, and their solution ultimately required business money.
Sure, a pie in the sky is a great idea, now how do we go about getting it there?

I still don't think you guys know what it means to have a proper discussion but that's obviously not going to move this conversation along so let's deal with the numbers your giving me. If you divide evenly among the states solely based on the membership numbers you're being quoted on - we would need 200 people to give 500 bucks. I'm more than doubling a state lobbyists fee in this equation. You're saying there's no way? Are you staking the future of vaping on it?

 

[Myk]

I still don't think you guys know what it means to have a proper discussion but that's obviously not going to move this conversation along so let's deal with the numbers your giving me. If you divide evenly among the states solely based on the membership numbers you're being quoted on - we would need 200 people to give 500 bucks. I'm more than doubling a state lobbyists fee in this equation. You're saying there's no way? Are you staking the future of vaping on it?

I am ASKING HOW.
I thought I was being pretty clear on that.

I recall someone saying a state lobbyist was $80,000 so I wouldn't say you were doubling it. That was state level so that would be per state. Your 200 people just happens to be the same number as CASAA's membership. Look at how long it took for them to get there and I guarantee you they all don't have $500 to give.
$80,000, $100,000 and especially $50,000 doesn't sound like it's going to do much wining and dining to me.

And then you have to get people to agree on the laws you're pushing for. If it's pushing don't vape where smoking isn't allowed there's no need for a lobbyist, ALA and ACS are already doing that.

 

[zoiDman]

...

I am always curious what those places are that are inherently inappropriate to vape. Care to name them?

I'm sorry Jman8

I'm just not going to Vape in...

Grocery Stores
Hospitals
Churches
Funerals
Classrooms
Gas Stations
Or around Children

Not looking for a Debate. Just not going to Vape in these Places out of Respect for those Around me.

 

[Anjaffm]

Very well said, Myk.
As you have said before - and I fully agree - no use talking about a pie in the sky if you have no idea how to get the pie up there.

And 200 people giving 500 dollars each - that sounds pretty much like a big huge pie in the sky to me.
Maybe some people have 500 dollars lying around, to be given away. But I am certain that a lot of people do not. Nor should they be required to.

 

[wv2win]

I'm sorry Jman8

I'm just not going to Vape in...

Grocery Stores
Hospitals
Churches
Funerals
Classrooms
Gas Stations
Or around Children

Not looking for a Debate. Just not going to Vape in these Places out of Respect for those Around me.

I know two hospitals that permit vaping and one that actually encourages it for their patients who smoke. They don't have signs that state "vaping permitted". But's let's all "self-restrict" ourselves because zoidman says this is not an appropriate place to vape respectfully.

 

[wv2win]

I am ASKING HOW.
I thought I was being pretty clear on that.

........................

You were. But vague, left-field responses will hopefully distract us from reality.

 

[zoiDman]

I know two hospitals that permit vaping and one that actually encourages it for their patients who smoke. They don't have signs that state "vaping permitted". But's let's all "self-restrict" ourselves because zoidman says this is not an appropriate place to vape respectfully.

I don't see where my Post said that Anyone Should or Shouldn't Vape in the Places I said I will Not.

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