Why Vapers are getting a BAD NAME.

[Baldr]

Building a basic mod is easy. Batteries are never going to be outlawed. You can make a tank out of stuff from Home Depot. People who are re-wicking already buy their stuff from fabric shops and whatnot, not just from vape stores.

PG and VG and food flavoring are widely used outside of vaping.

What you should worry about is nicotine. I expect big tobacco to push the legislature to make strict requirements on who can sell nicotine (in the name of safety, of course) so that essentially nobody but them can meet the regulations. At that point, they more or less own the vaping market, and probably the only thing they'll sell are low end cigalike models which you can't refill.

The other necessary items they can't really control, but nicotine, they probably can, and probably will. And it won't have anything to do with whether we've been vaping in public, it's just big money companies trying to corner the market.

 

[Jman8]

Ok, Where I live vaping is actually being strongly encouraged and the local and state government are getting fully behind it. I was at the Dr's office just a week ago. i was not vaping in the office, but my APV fell out of my pocket the Dr noticed and asked about it. He asked me to show him how it worked so i set up mine and the spare setup i carry and he and i (with my kids in the office) casually vaped while other nurses and Dr's came in to see what the ecigs were and to learn about them. Spent a good hr after the appointment with 7 ppl Dr's and nurses going over how they worked the fact that they do work, and educating them on sites like this and CASAA.

I just a couple days ago ran into my children's Dr and he now has his own set up (Vamo V5) and has started the journey to being analog free.
Do I feel that I should be discreet as to where I vape? No not at all. People who still smoke analogs dont have to wash their clothes and brush their teeth before the interact with non smokers. The smell of their clothes/breath is by far more invasive then the smell and harmlessness of my vapor. Also, I will take every chance I can get to help educate another person to a safe and healthy alternative to something that WILL kill them.

With that said, If I am asked to not vape in a particular place I will stop. But that has yet to happen. Most people are more curious then afraid of someone vaping.

THIS!!!

A - Very happy this is in my state.
B - More pertinent to this thread is to image STEELRAIN deciding not to bring device to appt that day under logic of, "doctor's office is never the place to even think of vaping." Would've led to missed opportunity.
C - First 2 paragraphs of this post are antithesis of what OP was going for.
D - If vaping indoors posed any sort of inherent problem, one would reason that doctors and nurses would be in that room saying something along lines of, "but what about the clouds? Boy it is misty in here. And that odor!" I'm guessing that wasn't said, and clearly wasn't mentioned in the post, probably because... hmmmm.... it was a non issue.
E - Reemphasizing B, to say to all other vapers out there, don't miss these opportunities. Yes, it could backfire, but if it goes the other way, just think of the possibilities. Use this post as golden example of how it could go the other way. Heck, why not even reference it if your experience is going the way of ignorance. As in, "funny you should hate on this and claim it harmful when I am aware of a person vaping in a doctor's office with doctors and nurse staff, and with children present, learning with an open mind, over the course of an hour."
F - And I concur with the last paragraph, which is the bottom line for respectful interactions. Asked to stop, I would. To be clear, that also has not happened with me. I have been told no when I asked if I could, but of all of those times, the reasons given, when I asked, were based on ignorance, or "things an ANTZ might say about using eCigs." And I am going to ask some of the time if told not to or told I can't. If the response is deemed ignorant and not up for discussion, then that respect thing has just been taken off the table and I will proceed accordingly.

 

[p.opus]

And it won't have anything to do with whether we've been vaping in public, it's just big money companies trying to corner the market.

THIS IS THE BOTTOM LINE!!!! Big Tobacco is using the Anti Tobacco zealots (in fact many of them or on the payroll) in order to pave the way for Big Tobacco to corner the e-cig market and then they can dictate what gets put in e-liquid and how much to charge.

Every time some nanny vaper here screams "what a about the children???" "What about second hand vapor" some guy from big tobacco laughs just a little on the inside....

 

[jwoode]

Here is another example of thoughtless drivel that always pops up in these threads. When the poster can't develop a logical and cognizant argument, they resort to the "extremes" that NO ONE ever suggested. NO ONE is advocating blowing vaper in anyone's face. Vaping is not being banned due to anyone vaping in public. And those of us who support vaping in public and not in smoking areas, always advocate doing so respectfully. If you had done any research at all, you would know that. Back in 2009, when there was no more than one vaper for ever 500 square miles, why was it banned nationwide?? Not due to the ignorant idea that there were hordes of vapers traveling across the country blowing vaper in people's faces.

Put bluntly, this is just weak BS.

How quickly we forget the topic at hand to climb up on a soapbox and condescend to the ignorant masses.. This went from a question of reactions to events in a specific setting to the cause of freedom, justice, and the American vapers way.

Drama much?

While we're out there in left field, look around for a minute. Consider the reactions here to a mundane event described by the OP. A simple question over a person's behavior comes into question and escalates to the heights of insults and polarization of opinion. Is this the part where we give each other the finger and disrespect mothers?

A group of vapors in a vapors forum can't even talk about where it is and is not appropriate to vape. That bodes very badly for the future.

It won't take "hordes of vapers traveling across the country blowing vaper in people's faces" to cause bans. It will take one test case to start a really big ball rolling.. period.. and it strikes me that the case of a vaper among children in a doctors waiting room would be a case many legislators would fight each other for. I can see the pictures now.. poor little Johnny at his doctors office and the mean evil vapor.. he could be the poster child.. And it's not going to sound like "thoughtless drivel" to the people who have the power to make law.

 

[Jman8]

Poor little Johnny isn't going to be able to go outside on a foggy day pretty soon because of mean evil Mother Nature.

 

[zoiDman]

How quickly we forget the topic at hand to climb up on a soapbox and condescend to the ignorant masses.. This went from a question of reactions to events in a specific setting to the cause of freedom, justice, and the American vapers way.

Drama much?

...

________________

 

[stevegmu]

How quickly we forget the topic at hand to climb up on a soapbox and condescend to the ignorant masses.. This went from a question of reactions to events in a specific setting to the cause of freedom, justice, and the American vapers way.

Drama much?

While we're out there in left field, look around for a minute. Consider the reactions here to a mundane event described by the OP. A simple question over a person's behavior comes into question and escalates to the heights of insults and polarization of opinion. Is this the part where we give each other the finger and disrespect mothers?

A group of vapors in a vapors forum can't even talk about where it is and is not appropriate to vape. That bodes very badly for the future.

It won't take "hordes of vapers traveling across the country blowing vaper in people's faces" to cause bans. It will take one test case to start a really big ball rolling.. period.. and it strikes me that the case of a vaper among children in a doctors waiting room would be a case many legislators would fight each other for. I can see the pictures now.. poor little Johnny at his doctors office and the mean evil vapor.. he could be the poster child.. And it's not going to sound like "thoughtless drivel" to the people who have the power to make law.

Whenever ANTS is mentioned, rest assured the NUTZ will show up...

 

[p.opus]

How quickly we forget the topic at hand to climb up on a soapbox and condescend to the ignorant masses.. This went from a question of reactions to events in a specific setting to the cause of freedom, justice, and the American vapers way.

Drama much?

While we're out there in left field, look around for a minute. Consider the reactions here to a mundane event described by the OP. A simple question over a person's behavior comes into question and escalates to the heights of insults and polarization of opinion. Is this the part where we give each other the finger and disrespect mothers?

A group of vapors in a vapors forum can't even talk about where it is and is not appropriate to vape. That bodes very badly for the future.

It won't take "hordes of vapers traveling across the country blowing vaper in people's faces" to cause bans. It will take one test case to start a really big ball rolling.. period.. and it strikes me that the case of a vaper among children in a doctors waiting room would be a case many legislators would fight each other for. I can see the pictures now.. poor little Johnny at his doctors office and the mean evil vapor.. he could be the poster child.. And it's not going to sound like "thoughtless drivel" to the people who have the power to make law.

This has always been about the appropriateness of where to vape or where not to. Yet with some people here it seems to be a moving target.

Some people seem compelled to link vaping to smoking even if I'm vaping 0mg nic. They apply standards of acceptability that they don't apply to someone using a Nicotrol inhaler. People who use a Nicotrol Inhaler or Nicorette gum don't exhale nicotine I guess....Yeah, right....

Some people say it's ok as long as I don't exhale anything visible. This is ludicrous beyond recognition because cloud or not, I'm exhaling the same thing.

Some people then say that I have to worry about little Johnny and his PG or other allergies, but no consideration is made that the very thing johnny might be sensitive to is already being pumped into the room by the doctor himself.

The bottom line here is people fear the cloud. As irrational as it is that is the bottom line.

Some people want to equate vaping to smoking, while others, (like myself) would like to equate it to other forms of consumption. No one has a problem with me drinking coffee in a waiting room or snacking on some mixed nuts, yet the possibility of me meeting up with a kid with a peanut sensitivity is on an order of magnitude greater than anyone being overly sensitive to my breath.

There have been studies. There is no scientific reason to treat vapor with any special attention compared to other inhalants that are already in the air, yet special attention is given...Why? Because you can see it.

If you want to equate smoking to vaping, that is your own private and personal choice. Just don't tell me it should be mine.

 

[Myk]

You keep saying your side this and your side that about me. Just what is my side? From reading your post above, I take that you mean I am on the side that says SHV is harmful, correct? Did I misunderstand you? Hmmm, I don't know why you would say such a thing when time after time, post after post I emphasize that I have not once even suggest that I think SHV is harmful. That's not my "side", not at all. Looks to me that it is my time to exit this thread because it is not very productive if I have to defend myself from things I haven't said and opinions I haven't given, over and over again, like the "conversation" below:

"Tom is coming to the party."
"Oh, I am not sure Tom is coming or not"
"Why do you say Tom is NOT coming?"
"I didn't say that. I say I don't know"
"Why you say Tom is NOT coming"
"I say I don't know whether Tom is coming or not."
"You say Tom is not coming."
"For the last time already, I didn't say Tom is not coming"
"Why do you say Tom is not coming?"
"Oh, brother!"

Peace out.

Actually the conversation is more complicated than that because there are more than 2 people talking.

Billy: You're going to cause the end of world.
Joe: You're wrong, the world can't end let alone by anything I can do.
Bob: No, Joe, you're wrong, the world can end.
Joe: There's nothing I can do to cause the world to end.
Bob: I'm not saying you can cause the world to end.
Joe: So why are you here defending Billy saying I'm going to cause the world to end.

Perhaps if you want don't want your position to be misunderstood you should read what position you are defending first.

How quickly we forget the topic at hand to climb up on a soapbox and condescend to the ignorant masses.. This went from a question of reactions to events in a specific setting to the cause of freedom, justice, and the American vapers way.

Drama much?

While we're out there in left field, look around for a minute. Consider the reactions here to a mundane event described by the OP. A simple question over a person's behavior comes into question and escalates to the heights of insults and polarization of opinion. Is this the part where we give each other the finger and disrespect mothers?

A group of vapors in a vapors forum can't even talk about where it is and is not appropriate to vape. That bodes very badly for the future.

It won't take "hordes of vapers traveling across the country blowing vaper in people's faces" to cause bans. It will take one test case to start a really big ball rolling.. period.. and it strikes me that the case of a vaper among children in a doctors waiting room would be a case many legislators would fight each other for. I can see the pictures now.. poor little Johnny at his doctors office and the mean evil vapor.. he could be the poster child.. And it's not going to sound like "thoughtless drivel" to the people who have the power to make law.

Drama much?
It's not taking any test cases. It's taking ALA/ACS and big pharma money. This has been going on LONG before there were enough vapers to blow vapor in people's faces.
So why should we vapers take the blame now???

It's not people vaping in public. Bans were going on before that.
It's not sub-ohming cloud chasers. Bans were going on before that too.
It's the fact that we exist the ANTZ don't like. If you're looking for a way to appease them to keep vaping from being banned the only answer is for everyone to stop vaping. That makes as much sense as saying to keep vaping indoors from being banned we need to not vape indoors.

 

[Uma]

I'm new here and don't know the politics.

Most of it is in the legislature forum here at ECF.
In the 2009 era, the eCigs were becoming popular here in the states. Big Pharma didn't like that one little bit. So the FDA began their illegal seizure of incoming products at customs. A few eCig companies took the FDA to court. Judge Leon told the FDA to knock it off, they are not a big Pharma product, if anything they'd be a tobacco product but they're not that either unless of course you, the FDA deems them as such.
The FDA lawyer gasps and exclaims "your honor! But what about their (BP) investments?" (Paraphrased). So, the FDA lost that battle for their bedfellow, big Pharma. (The FDA loves their testing fees for each product).

Meanwhile, the media is flooded with nonsense stories from the ANTZ about the eCigs. The push was on, to get them banned. Everyone from the MSA/TSET, AG's, big Pharma sluts who push big Pharma drugs & live off grants & smoke taxes got in on the ban wagon. They are unofficially officially called banstabators, btw.

As time goes on, the eCigs become so popular that even Forbes does a Holy End Run article, about the new billion dollar industry.
The next day or so, the attorney generals (AG's) of many states get together, sign a letter, begging the FDA to hurry up and deem them as tobacco products so they can begin super taxing them like smokes. Then they begin their "save the children" campaign, accusing adults of being a flavorless society and declaring that only minors like Flavors.
With that said, the ANTZ push forward with their ban plots, taxing plots, etc.

Meanwhile, eCigs become really really really popular, due to all the ANTZ false advertising. ECigs are in the news night and day. Naturally, smoke sales drop drastically-er. They now drop so far that the next headline reads "smoke sales down, profits way up!". (Para). PANIC!! The senators get on the horn and demand for the eCigs to be included in the 1997 MSA. (Master settlement agreement).

Why did they do that you ask? Because the big tobacco companies (BT) are profiting despite their sales loss, because they now have less legal fees... they now don't have to give the MSA money for every cigarette sold, because the MSA is based on anything equal to or over the grandfathered 1997 sales. For the first time, sales are below 1997!

Oh, boy. The polls all show that everyone is fine and dandy over vaping, except of course the MSA, TSET, BP, and AG's. So, now the cronies demonize SHS and THS again, to re- raise the brainwashed fear in the masses, so the cronies can more easily convince the brainwashed masses that vapor, SHV, and THV are just as bad, dangerous, whatever as the SHS. The funny part about that, is that records show that SHS was tossed out of court by judge Osteen in 1998.(?) due to cherry picked nonsense data. Yet the media still enjoys running ANTZ versions of the outcome, loves watching people get fired from their jobs, catch pneumonia in the rain, go homeless, etc, because the ANTZ love controlling behaviors of the brainwashed masses.

Including vapor in with smoking is the icing on the cake for them.
No vaping wherever smoking is not allowed. Work, public areas, parks, sports, cars, and private homes.

But what about the MSA funds, you may ask. Well, after BT and the eCigs go belly up, BP swoops in and gets the nicotine all to themselves. They like to patent their pills, and have plans for beneficial nicotine. Smart pills, Alzheimer's Meds, Parkinson's Meds, ADHD Meds, .., etc... Smokers & or Vapers who were able to control their neurological disorders before, will now have to rely on BP. Yippee eh.
Another thought, is that BT & BP will continue playing their roller coaster game consisting of on the wagon with BP smoking cessation products, off the wagon & back on smokes, on/off, on/off... It's been quite a happy game for them to date.
There are other thoughts too, but these seem to be the most often spoken.

MSA = Master Settlement Agreement
TSET = Tobacco Settlement Endowment Trust
BP = Big Pharma
AG = Attorney General
SHS = Second hand Smoke
THS = Third hand smoke
SHV = Second hand Vapor
THV = Third Hand Vapor.

MSA beget TSET
TSET beget ALA, TFK, ACS, & all the "non-profit" smoking cessation clubs turned lobbyists.
BP has an interesting lineage on their own, all the way down to the Robert wood Johnson foundation.
CDC also has an interesting lineage with board persons on BP firms, according to some. (I would have to research deeper to see. Update: Dr. David Satcher. Plus there is more about CDC at dr. Michael Seigel blog here http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2013/08/why-is-cdc-taking-research-funding-from.html )
RWJf has lineage into Obamacare, etc...
FDA has lineage as well, even Monsanto lineage, .. Will need to gather the specific data, but it's out there.
It's a small world, after all. <insert music here>

 

[CabinetGuyScott]

HOLY COW!!

This should be mandatory reading for the masses!


Get this monologue stickied up front somewhere!

Needless to say, you have created a masterpiece Uma.

Most of it is in the legislature forum here at ECF.
In the 2009 era, the eCigs were becoming popular here in the states. Big Pharma didn't like that one little bit. So the FDA began their illegal seizure of incoming products at customs. A few eCig companies took the FDA to court. Judge Leon told the FDA to knock it off, they are not a big Pharma product, if anything they'd be a tobacco product but they're not that either unless of course you, the FDA deems them as such.
The FDA lawyer gasps and exclaims "your honor! But what about their (BP) investments?" (Paraphrased). So, the FDA lost that battle for their bedfellow, big Pharma. (The FDA loves their testing fees for each product).

Meanwhile, the media is flooded with nonsense stories from the ANTZ about the eCigs. The push was on, to get them banned. Everyone from the MSA/TSET, AG's, big Pharma sluts who push big Pharma drugs & live off grants & smoke taxes got in on the ban wagon. They are unofficially officially called banstabators, btw.

As time goes on, the eCigs become so popular that even Forbes does a Holy End Run article, about the new billion dollar industry.
The next day or so, the attorney generals (AG's) of many states get together, sign a letter, begging the FDA to hurry up and deem them as tobacco products so they can begin super taxing them like smokes. Then they begin their "save the children" campaign, accusing adults of being a flavorless society and declaring that only minors like Flavors.
With that said, the ANTZ push forward with their ban plots, taxing plots, etc.

Meanwhile, eCigs become really really really popular, due to all the ANTZ false advertising. ECigs are in the news night and day. Naturally, smoke sales drop drastically-er. They now drop so far that the next headline reads "smoke sales down, profits way up!". (Para). PANIC!! The senators get on the horn and demand for the eCigs to be included in the 1997 MSA. (Master settlement agreement).

Why did they do that you ask? Because the big tobacco companies (BT) are profiting despite their sales loss, because they now have less legal fees... they now don't have to give the MSA money for every cigarette sold, because the MSA is based on anything equal to or over the grandfathered 1997 sales. For the first time, sales are below 1997!

Oh, boy. The polls all show that everyone is fine and dandy over vaping, except of course the MSA, TSET, BP, and AG's. So, now the cronies demonize SHS and THS again, to re- raise the brainwashed fear in the masses, so the cronies can more easily convince the brainwashed masses that vapor, SHV, and THV are just as bad, dangerous, whatever as the SHS. The funny part about that, is that records show that SHS was tossed out of court by judge Osteen in 1998.(?) due to cherry picked nonsense data. Yet the media still enjoys running ANTZ versions of the outcome, loves watching people get fired from their jobs, catch pneumonia in the rain, go homeless, etc, because the ANTZ love controlling behaviors of the brainwashed masses.

Including vapor in with smoking is the icing on the cake for them.
No vaping wherever smoking is not allowed. Work, public areas, parks, sports, cars, and private homes.

But what about the MSA funds, you may ask. Well, after BT and the eCigs go belly up, BP swoops in and gets the nicotine all to themselves. They like to patent their pills, and have plans for beneficial nicotine. Smart pills, Alzheimer's Meds, Parkinson's Meds, ADHD Meds, .., etc... Smokers & or Vapers who were able to control their neurological disorders before, will now have to rely on BP. Yippee eh.

 

[p.opus]

Most of it is in the legislature forum here at ECF.
In the 2009 era, the eCigs were becoming popular here in the states. Big Pharma didn't like that one little bit. So the FDA began their illegal seizure of incoming products at customs. A few eCig companies took the FDA to court. Judge Leon told the FDA to knock it off, they are not a big Pharma product, if anything they'd be a tobacco product but they're not that either unless of course you, the FDA deems them as such.
The FDA lawyer gasps and exclaims "your honor! But what about their (BP) investments?" (Paraphrased). So, the FDA lost that battle for their bedfellow, big Pharma. (The FDA loves their testing fees for each product).

Meanwhile, the media is flooded with nonsense stories from the ANTZ about the eCigs. The push was on, to get them banned. Everyone from the MSA/TSET, AG's, big Pharma sluts who push big Pharma drugs & live off grants & smoke taxes got in on the ban wagon. They are unofficially officially called banstabators, btw.

As time goes on, the eCigs become so popular that even Forbes does a Holy End Run article, about the new billion dollar industry.
The next day or so, the attorney generals (AG's) of many states get together, sign a letter, begging the FDA to hurry up and deem them as tobacco products so they can begin super taxing them like smokes. Then they begin their "save the children" campaign, accusing adults of being a flavorless society and declaring that only minors like Flavors.
With that said, the ANTZ push forward with their ban plots, taxing plots, etc.

Meanwhile, eCigs become really really really popular, due to all the ANTZ false advertising. ECigs are in the news night and day. Naturally, smoke sales drop drastically-er. They now drop so far that the next headline reads "smoke sales down, profits way up!". (Para). PANIC!! The senators get on the horn and demand for the eCigs to be included in the 1997 MSA. (Master settlement agreement).

Why did they do that you ask? Because the big tobacco companies (BT) are profiting despite their sales loss, because they now have less legal fees... they now don't have to give the MSA money for every cigarette sold, because the MSA is based on anything equal to or over the grandfathered 1997 sales. For the first time, sales are below 1997!

Oh, boy. The polls all show that everyone is fine and dandy over vaping, except of course the MSA, TSET, BP, and AG's. So, now the cronies demonize SHS and THS again, to re- raise the brainwashed fear in the masses, so the cronies can more easily convince the brainwashed masses that vapor, SHV, and THV are just as bad, dangerous, whatever as the SHS. The funny part about that, is that records show that SHS was tossed out of court by judge Osteen in 1998.(?) due to cherry picked nonsense data. Yet the media still enjoys running ANTZ versions of the outcome, loves watching people get fired from their jobs, catch pneumonia in the rain, go homeless, etc, because the ANTZ love controlling behaviors of the brainwashed masses.

Including vapor in with smoking is the icing on the cake for them.
No vaping wherever smoking is not allowed. Work, public areas, parks, sports, cars, and private homes.

But what about the MSA funds, you may ask. Well, after BT and the eCigs go belly up, BP swoops in and gets the nicotine all to themselves. They like to patent their pills, and have plans for beneficial nicotine. Smart pills, Alzheimer's Meds, Parkinson's Meds, ADHD Meds, .., etc... Smokers & or Vapers who were able to control their neurological disorders before, will now have to rely on BP. Yippee eh.

This is brilliant, but for those of you who don't know the Alphabet soup....Let me lend an asisst.

MSA = Master Settlement Agreement
TSET = Tobacco Settlement Endowment Trust
BP = Big Pharma
AG = Attorney General
SHS = Second hand Smoke
THS = Third hand smoke
SHV = Second hand Vapor
THV = Third Hand Vapor.

 

[Baldr]

THV = Second Hand Vapor.

 

[wv2win]

I think everyone has a right to do as they please until it infringes on another person's right to do as they please.
I don't think you have a right to send a cloud of vapor into my face.
This is exactly what will get vaping banned and there is just no reason for it.

Here is another example of thoughtless drivel that always pops up in these threads. When the poster can't develop a logical and cognizant argument, they resort to the "extremes" that NO ONE ever suggested. NO ONE is advocating blowing vaper in anyone's face. Vaping is not being banned due to anyone vaping in public. And those of us who support vaping in public and not in smoking areas, always advocate doing so respectfully. If you had done any research at all, you would know that. Back in 2009, when there was no more than one vaper for ever 500 square miles, why was it banned nationwide?? Not due to the ignorant idea that there were hordes of vapers traveling across the country blowing vaper in people's faces.

Put bluntly, this is just weak BS.

How quickly we forget the topic at hand to climb up on a soapbox and condescend to the ignorant masses.. This went from a question of reactions to events in a specific setting to the cause of freedom, justice, and the American vapers way.

Drama much?

While we're out there in left field, look around for a minute. Consider the reactions here to a mundane event described by the OP. A simple question over a person's behavior comes into question and escalates to the heights of insults and polarization of opinion. Is this the part where we give each other the finger and disrespect mothers?

A group of vapors in a vapors forum can't even talk about where it is and is not appropriate to vape. That bodes very badly for the future.

It won't take "hordes of vapers traveling across the country blowing vaper in people's faces" to cause bans. It will take one test case to start a really big ball rolling.. period.. and it strikes me that the case of a vaper among children in a doctors waiting room would be a case many legislators would fight each other for. I can see the pictures now.. poor little Johnny at his doctors office and the mean evil vapor.. he could be the poster child.. And it's not going to sound like "thoughtless drivel" to the people who have the power to make law.

The only person making a comment "out in left field" is you. I responded specifically to your "out in left field" weak, straw man comment of not having "a right to send a cloud of vapor into my face". First, that is not what the person the OP referred to was doing. Second, all of us who advocate vaping in public, qualify the advocacy to do so respectfully.

You on the other hand, use an extreme example of people "blowing vaper in other people's face's", which is the mark of a weak-minded argument, not based in reality or supported by anyone I know who vapes. Not to mention, that in the four+ years I have been vaping publicly, I have not seen one person "blowing vaper in someone's face" and neither has the hundred+ other vapers I have talked with on this topic.

And of course you ignore the "reality", proven since 2009, that vaping bans have nothing to do with people vaping in public. You ignore it because you can't answer it. You probably do not even know the history of vaping bans and why they were first instituted, by who, and who was and still are behind them. That would require doing research and some effort. Much easier to just post off the top of one's head.

 

[p.opus]

Most of it is in the legislature forum here at ECF.
In the 2009 era, Blah...Blah....Brilliance...Blah Blah...Vapers who were able to control their neurological disorders before, will now have to rely on BP. Yippee eh.

Kind of makes you sick to your stomach when you realize just how we are being played....

HUGE anti tobacco programs down here in Florida funded by Tobacco Free Florida. with the poor 20 something talking out of her stoma and all the other horrifying examples of what smoking does.

I used to sit and give a big fist bump in the air saying...Hell Yeah, glad I don't smoke no more. Then I realized these same people want to take away my e-cigs, even though they won't make me talk through a voice box, even though they won't cause me to lose my limbs.

I thought that all of these anti tobacco organizations like tobacco free kids and the American Lung Association would welcome me with open arms.

I thought they would embrace this wonderful new technology that was finally breaking people free from their tobacco habit in significant numbers.

I mean Tobacco Free Kids and the American Lung Association is about saving lives.....right....right????

"Congratulations on finally giving up tobacco......It doesn't matter how you got here, we're glad you're here......What???? You use an e-cig???....You're still a smoker.....get that thing away from me....don't spew that noxious cloud near me......."

Now you kind of understand the chip on my shoulder. I am one less statistic. I am one less tobacco related death. I no longer inhale carcinogens. I am no longer putting my kids at risk (supposedly)...I've done everything you want me to, except use the "approved" product to get there. I'm even dropping to zero nic like a patch users (currently at 4mg and half of what I have is zero nic) and yet I am still treated as a pariah.

 

[jwoode]

The only person making a comment "out in left field" is you. I responded specifically to your "out in left field" weak, straw man comment of not having "a right to send a cloud of vapor into my face". First, that is not what the person the OP referred to was doing. Second, all of us who advocate vaping in public, qualify the advocacy to do so respectfully.

You on the other hand, use an extreme example of people "blowing vaper in other people's face's", which is the mark of a weak-minded argument, not based in reality or supported by anyone I know who vapes. Not to mention, that in the four+ years I have been vaping publicly, I have not seen one person "blowing vaper in someone's face" and neither has the hundred+ other vapers I have talked with on this topic.

And of course you ignore the "reality", proven since 2009, that vaping bans have nothing to do with people vaping in public. You ignore it because you can't answer it. You probably do not even know the history of vaping bans and why they were first instituted, by who, and who was and still are behind them. That would require doing research and some effort. Much easier to just post off the top of one's head.

Nice job of taking something out of context and building an argument on it, while ignoring the subject at hand.
You don't even hear what I'm saying.

Reading comprehension for 100 Alex.

 

[zoiDman]

...

You on the other hand, use an extreme example of people "blowing vaper in other people's face's", which is the mark of a weak-minded argument, not based in reality or supported by anyone I know who vapes. Not to mention, that in the four+ years I have been vaping publicly, I have not seen one person "blowing vaper in someone's face" and neither has the hundred+ other vapers I have talked with on this topic.

...

Well I guess I'm not one of the Hundreds.

Because I have seen Vapers Blowing Clouds onto the back of Peoples Heads of People in Movies. And I have seen People have a Complete Hissy Fit when asked not to use an e-Cigarette inside a Restaurant.

These are the Exception and Not the Rule. But to make it sound like it Never Has or Is Not Happening is Disingenuous.

The Very Small Percentage of the Population tend to Screw it Up for the Vast Majority. e-Cigarettes Is and Will be No Exception.

 

[Myk]

Most of it is in the legislature forum here at ECF.
In the 2009 era, the eCigs were becoming popular here in the states. Big Pharma didn't like that one little bit. So the FDA began their illegal seizure of incoming products at customs. A few eCig companies took the FDA to court. Judge Leon told the FDA to knock it off, they are not a big Pharma product, if anything they'd be a tobacco product but they're not that either unless of course you, the FDA deems them as such.
The FDA lawyer gasps and exclaims "your honor! But what about their (BP) investments?" (Paraphrased). So, the FDA lost that battle for their bedfellow, big Pharma. (The FDA loves their testing fees for each product).

Meanwhile, the media is flooded with nonsense stories from the ANTZ about the eCigs. The push was on, to get them banned. Everyone from the MSA/TSET, AG's, big Pharma sluts who push big Pharma drugs & live off grants & smoke taxes got in on the ban wagon. They are unofficially officially called banstabators, btw.

As time goes on, the eCigs become so popular that even Forbes does a Holy End Run article, about the new billion dollar industry.
The next day or so, the attorney generals (AG's) of many states get together, sign a letter, begging the FDA to hurry up and deem them as tobacco products so they can begin super taxing them like smokes. Then they begin their "save the children" campaign, accusing adults of being a flavorless society and declaring that only minors like Flavors.
With that said, the ANTZ push forward with their ban plots, taxing plots, etc.

Meanwhile, eCigs become really really really popular, due to all the ANTZ false advertising. ECigs are in the news night and day. Naturally, smoke sales drop drastically-er. They now drop so far that the next headline reads "smoke sales down, profits way up!". (Para). PANIC!! The senators get on the horn and demand for the eCigs to be included in the 1997 MSA. (Master settlement agreement).

Why did they do that you ask? Because the big tobacco companies (BT) are profiting despite their sales loss, because they now have less legal fees... they now don't have to give the MSA money for every cigarette sold, because the MSA is based on anything equal to or over the grandfathered 1997 sales. For the first time, sales are below 1997!

Oh, boy. The polls all show that everyone is fine and dandy over vaping, except of course the MSA, TSET, BP, and AG's. So, now the cronies demonize SHS and THS again, to re- raise the brainwashed fear in the masses, so the cronies can more easily convince the brainwashed masses that vapor, SHV, and THV are just as bad, dangerous, whatever as the SHS. The funny part about that, is that records show that SHS was tossed out of court by judge Osteen in 1998.(?) due to cherry picked nonsense data. Yet the media still enjoys running ANTZ versions of the outcome, loves watching people get fired from their jobs, catch pneumonia in the rain, go homeless, etc, because the ANTZ love controlling behaviors of the brainwashed masses.

Including vapor in with smoking is the icing on the cake for them.
No vaping wherever smoking is not allowed. Work, public areas, parks, sports, cars, and private homes.

But what about the MSA funds, you may ask. Well, after BT and the eCigs go belly up, BP swoops in and gets the nicotine all to themselves. They like to patent their pills, and have plans for beneficial nicotine. Smart pills, Alzheimer's Meds, Parkinson's Meds, ADHD Meds, .., etc... Smokers & or Vapers who were able to control their neurological disorders before, will now have to rely on BP. Yippee eh.

Great.
The only thing I would add is to point out that the ANTZ (ALA, ACS and almost every smoking cessation group) also benefit from MSA and tobacco tax money.
ANTZ say "Save The Children™" but then fight against minor bans unless they include a tax.

If we want to easily protect vaping we can agree to pay a similar 300% tax on top of the price of EVERYTHING ecig related whether you're vaping nicotine or not. (And for the record, that is what some other illegal product has figured out and why it is becoming legalized while attempts are made to make vaping illegal.)

 

[p.opus]

Well I guess I'm not one of the Hundreds.

Because I have seen Vapers Blowing Clouds onto the back of Peoples Heads of People in Movies. And I have seen People have a Complete Hissy Fit when asked not to use an e-Cigarette inside a Restaurant.

These are the Exception and Not the Rule. But to make it sound like it Never Has or Is Not Happening is Disingenuous.

The Very Small Percentage of the Population tend to Screw it Up for the Vast Majority. e-Cigarettes Is and Will be No Exception.

There are rude people everywhere. Even vapers.

This whole thread was started because a vaper saw another vaper vape in a doctors waiting room and thought it was rude and confronted the other vaper about it. Others chimed in with comments that you shouldn't vape where you can't smoke and off we went.

I have a real problem with your last sentence because the battle to ban e-cigs was being waged before any of us were vaping. Sure the rude vaper gives someone the excuse to point their finger and say "see...see...see what I mean....." but even if 100% of us were totally cool and respectful, then people would still want to take our e-cigs away.

As a smoker I NEVER smoked where I was not allowed, I always asked. I was the model smoker, and despite the fact, the areas I could smoke were being taken away bit by bit. My own car....My own home....MY OWN FRICKING HOME....

Don't blame the war against e-cigs on the rude vaper inside the movies. The war was well under way before that dude knew what an e-cig was. He's not the one eff-ing it up for everyone else. You are just being manipulated into believing he is.

What better way to prevent a united front than to divide and conquer. I wouldn't be shocked if some of the posters here at ECF are these people who are baiting the forums so we can continue to fight each other, because the more we pay attention to each other the less we pay attention to the real threat.

Organizations like CASSA are fighting the fight, They are trying to prevent this ridiculous legislation, they are helping with studies to prove the safety of e-cigs. And yet some people here on this forum refuse to join them because they think they are filled with zealots.

Zealots who are fighting for YOUR right to vape. Fighting so that you can get that MVP or Protank or ejuice easily over the web. Fighting so that you can enjoy a cup of coffee and a vape on a sidewalk cafe.....

But some still won't join......Nero fiddled while Rome burns....

 

[Bramble]

Most of it is in the legislature forum here at ECF.
In the 2009 era, the eCigs were becoming popular here in the states. Big Pharma didn't like that one little bit. So the FDA began their illegal seizure of incoming products at customs. A few eCig companies took the FDA to court. Judge Leon told the FDA to knock it off, they are not a big Pharma product, if anything they'd be a tobacco product but they're not that either unless of course you, the FDA deems them as such.
The FDA lawyer gasps and exclaims "your honor! But what about their (BP) investments?" (Paraphrased). So, the FDA lost that battle for their bedfellow, big Pharma. (The FDA loves their testing fees for each product).

Meanwhile, the media is flooded with nonsense stories from the ANTZ about the eCigs. The push was on, to get them banned. Everyone from the MSA/TSET, AG's, big Pharma sluts who push big Pharma drugs & live off grants & smoke taxes got in on the ban wagon. They are unofficially officially called banstabators, btw.

As time goes on, the eCigs become so popular that even Forbes does a Holy End Run article, about the new billion dollar industry.
The next day or so, the attorney generals (AG's) of many states get together, sign a letter, begging the FDA to hurry up and deem them as tobacco products so they can begin super taxing them like smokes. Then they begin their "save the children" campaign, accusing adults of being a flavorless society and declaring that only minors like Flavors.
With that said, the ANTZ push forward with their ban plots, taxing plots, etc.

Meanwhile, eCigs become really really really popular, due to all the ANTZ false advertising. ECigs are in the news night and day. Naturally, smoke sales drop drastically-er. They now drop so far that the next headline reads "smoke sales down, profits way up!". (Para). PANIC!! The senators get on the horn and demand for the eCigs to be included in the 1997 MSA. (Master settlement agreement).

Why did they do that you ask? Because the big tobacco companies (BT) are profiting despite their sales loss, because they now have less legal fees... they now don't have to give the MSA money for every cigarette sold, because the MSA is based on anything equal to or over the grandfathered 1997 sales. For the first time, sales are below 1997!

Oh, boy. The polls all show that everyone is fine and dandy over vaping, except of course the MSA, TSET, BP, and AG's. So, now the cronies demonize SHS and THS again, to re- raise the brainwashed fear in the masses, so the cronies can more easily convince the brainwashed masses that vapor, SHV, and THV are just as bad, dangerous, whatever as the SHS. The funny part about that, is that records show that SHS was tossed out of court by judge Osteen in 1998.(?) due to cherry picked nonsense data. Yet the media still enjoys running ANTZ versions of the outcome, loves watching people get fired from their jobs, catch pneumonia in the rain, go homeless, etc, because the ANTZ love controlling behaviors of the brainwashed masses.

Including vapor in with smoking is the icing on the cake for them.
No vaping wherever smoking is not allowed. Work, public areas, parks, sports, cars, and private homes.

But what about the MSA funds, you may ask. Well, after BT and the eCigs go belly up, BP swoops in and gets the nicotine all to themselves. They like to patent their pills, and have plans for beneficial nicotine. Smart pills, Alzheimer's Meds, Parkinson's Meds, ADHD Meds, .., etc... Smokers & or Vapers who were able to control their neurological disorders before, will now have to rely on BP. Yippee eh.

This... cannot be read enough. Brilliant. I want to make a video of this post and make it viral.