Why Vapers are getting a BAD NAME.

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Myk

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You Just Don't Get It.

NYC was a Done Deal at that point. There Wasn't ANYTHING that Anyone could have done to Changed things. No One is Blaming those Vaper's for what Happened in NYC.

But what Some Here See is that that Stunt that that Small Group of Vaper's Pulled didn't Cast a Very Good Image on Vaper's a Whole.

Is This what you Want the Uninformed Public to Think that All Vaper's Do and How We All Act?

So then we go back to my original reply of "Not really the best example." and you agree.
If the people in NYC worried about the vapers in Colorado they'd have no choice but to roll over and die smoking. Expand that to everywhere and we all roll over and die holding out for that last city.
At what point will you admit that it's not vapers being a problem it's ALA/ACS imagining a problem?

That's what I want the public and government to know how we will act if they ban ecigs. Ban ecigs and we're going to raise a fuss. I can be respectful until it's clear respect isn't a two way street.
I'll buy a fog machine if I have to.



I'm familiar with the cost of retaining a lobbyist in Missouri. I have a phone conference with one on the third Wednesday of every month. I've been working with a lobbyist since the year 2000. I had a vague discussion while waiting for other members of the board that utilizes this specific lobbyist to connect. I say "a vague discussion" because I have no authority, nor the network to organize a method of retention.

Where are the constructive proposals from all the people who obviously know enough to shoot down all of my attempts at constructive proposals? Not saying they don't have them, I'm just inquiring into their locations.

Why are you being defeatist now? You can get the network and organize the method.
 

zoiDman

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So then we go back to my original reply of "Not really the best example." and you agree.
If the people in NYC worried about the vapers in Colorado they'd have no choice but to roll over and die smoking. Expand that to everywhere and we all roll over and die holding out for that last city.
At what point will you admit that it's not vapers being a problem it's ALA/ACS imagining a problem?

That's what I want the public and government to know how we will act if they ban ecigs. Ban ecigs and we're going to raise a fuss. I can be respectful until it's clear respect isn't a two way street.
I'll buy a fog machine if I have to.





Why are you being defeatist now? You can get the network and organize the method.

I told you that I agreed. There are Better Examples to the Question that p.opus asked.

I think this One Is Better.

I saw many quotes from non-smokers and non-vapers on a local television station's FB page when they ran a story about including vaping in a local suburb's public smoking bans. Many of them stated that they did not appreciate some of the vapers blowing vapor at them or around them, and some seemed quite adamant about blowing as big of a cloud as they could and making it as obvious as possible.

Of course, many were biased, I'm sure, but the perception is there to some degree, whether or not it is the reality.

And this One Also...

"I just made my bar vape free. Am I a bad guy?

So I run a large, high volume pub with a large patio in southern california. Both myself and the sous chef used vaping to quit analogs. We are both hobbyists and like getting all the new gear and juice we can find. Our private office is a vape den.

I've never allowed vaping in the bar because its always packed and the vapor is inevitably going into someone's face. Plus, I don't vape in public indoor places.

For months I had a rule for the patio, which was that discrete vaping was ok. Sadly, a few people decided to either blow gigantic sub ohm clouds when the patio was packed or simply not be discrete enough and cause complaints. Even when I would approach people and identify myself as a fellow vaper, they would give me the whole " it's just water vapor" excuse. I'd ask them to just keep the fog to a minimum and away from other people. A few drinks later and their back to blowing it wherever they want.

So today I banned it after to many complaints. I feel terrible because I want to be an advocate for vaping. I can explain to people that it isn't smoke, but I can't tell them why some vapers have no manners.

This is really bumming me out. I hate to do it but I have to protect my business. I wanted to make a vape friendly patio, but I gave an inch and they took a mile."

http://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_.../i_just_made_my_bar_vape_free_am_i_a_bad_guy/

The Long and the Short of it is what sonicdsl Posted is Happing All Across the USA. And what the Business Owner in the Reddit Post had to do is happing Also.
 
I feel like that the e-cig industry as a whole just isn't big enough for it to be acceptable EVERYWHERE. Now, keep in mind that this is a growing industry, so as soon as vaping is just as popular as analogs were in the 60's and 70's, then it will be accepted pretty much anywhere (save for Doc's offices and other areas of medical sensitivity.)
 

Myk

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I told you that I agreed. There are Better Examples to the Question that p.opus asked.

I think this One Is Better.



And this One Also...



http://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_.../i_just_made_my_bar_vape_free_am_i_a_bad_guy/

The Long and the Short of it is what sonicdsl Posted is Happing All Across the USA. And what the Business Owner in the Reddit Post had to do is happing Also.

I'm pretty sure it's not happening here.

Actually I think that bar incident was posted here too. I don't know if I replied to it but I have no problem with people banning anything in their business. I'd probably ban wearing red in my business unless you were paying me a lot of money.
I also said after a small local meet that I could understand people banning ecigs. I think I've said that in this thread. But that has nothing to do with being rude, it's a matter of the size of the business and the number of vaping customers.
 

Jman8

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Hospitals? Only during long visits, and then I'll stealth vape.

Hospitals are so large, that IMO, it's a no brainer as a place to vape. I think every time I've been in a hospital as a vaper, I've vaped.

Shopping usually takes 30-60 minutes. But, there are times we are stuck inside that store for over 4 hours, without breaks. Some people are very uncomfortable around other people, or stressed when shopping. I do believe a stealth vape when needed is perfectly fine during times like that. Others might think 15 minutes is too long to be stuck in a store! I have no right to judge others.

Shopping ... in a grocery store is place I'll vape seldomly. Usually too busy trying to get in and get out to even think of vaping. But I would in a grocery store, especially in aisle that has all packaged food.

Vaping during a church service is up to the pastor. I've never seen it in my area, but that doesn't mean it's not ok in other areas. It's up to the church itself. An hour sermon is no big deal to sleep ... Errr, I mean, sit through. If it's a big special potluck day, I'll ask permission or sneak puffs in the restroom as needed. Or not attend at all. Most pastors would rather we attend, get an earful, & will coach where & when & how.

Here is where I think it gets interesting. I believe I've already explained myself before on the "vape everywhere" position, and post #590 on this thread gets it. As I've noted before, I generally do not vape when I'm in crowds, though I might. Sometimes crowds are an easy place to vape, but as I generally avoid crowded places, I wouldn't seek such a situation out, just to vape.

Emphasis on situation. Church is not a situation. Church service is. My "vape everywhere" position does question if there is a place around that is inappropriate for vaping. If adding in some sort of function, situation in that place, that's a different consideration than mere place. Again, think of hospital as place that could have situations where vaping would come off entirely rude, but also have so many places (as in too many to count) where you would be the only person around in that area. Why anyone would mind a vape in that situation, especially vapers, is somewhat mind boggling to me. Same goes with Church. Many places, and times of the day, when no one is around. While I am yet to vape in a Church, temple, synagogue or place of worship, I most likely would, unless I was with a crowd of people, and unlikely if there was a function occurring. Yet, even with that just named, if I wanted, I'd find a spot in that building and vape as if I belong there.

Funerals. Nope, wouldn't there either. But, at a wake, oh yeh! In fact, I vaped a lot during my brothers wake last month, while the others smoked. We were all cool with each other.

During a service, assuming I'm there the whole time, I would not. At the places around or in between a service, I'd consider it. Be kinda surprised if I didn't.

Classrooms? Twould depend on the teacher, the class, the environment, the length of the class. Their rules apply. I might stealth a vape if taking a test or really stressed. It would be nice if they allowed stealth vaping in general.

Agree with this. Up to the teacher if during class time it is permitted or not. But if I'm in that room before or after anyone else is, I'd vape. Schools (for any grade level) are another one of those building where there are umpteen places one could vape and very likely no one would know you did or not. Hence, another place/building in the vape everywhere position.

Gas stations, nah. Too busy anyway.

Agreed. If I've paid inside, I've vaped in the gas station area, but when I'm paying at the pump, I don't think I've ever vaped.

To me, the situation aspect of vape everywhere is the gray area. The place, in and of itself, is fairly black and white. All or nothing. Some here would never vape in a Church, or hospital or what have you. I disagree with that take and will have that discussion all day to understand why. I'm yet to hear of or visit a place that was not conducive to vaping. With situation, the idea of "blowing vapor into people's faces" applies wherever you are at. Includes own home, and outdoors. I can't think of a place where it would be appropriate to blow vapor in someone's face intentionally, unless they asked for it (as in, "ooo, I like that flavor, blow some in my face please").

As post #590 noted, I too wouldn't vape in a professional meeting unless somehow, magically, given explicit permission to do so. But in that same building where that same meeting occurred, I'd likely vape, and I'm quite certain no one would ever know.
 

Maurice Pudlo

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Property RIGHTS are a protected right. The government dictating what a business allows on their PRIVATE property is not a power of the government.

I think you may be misunderstanding what property rights are.

Owning a chunk of land does not equate to an "I can do anything I want here" card.

There are laws, codes, regulations, and contracts, all of which limit your ability to do stuff on your property.

Including in some cases the ability to let customers vape.

Maurice
 

Myk

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I think you may be misunderstanding what property rights are.

Owning a chunk of land does not equate to an "I can do anything I want here" card.

There are laws, codes, regulations, and contracts, all of which limit your ability to do stuff on your property.

Including in some cases the ability to let customers vape.

Maurice

I think you are the one who is confused because we have lost our rights for so long you've come to accept it.

My right to swing my fist ends at your nose. That does not give you the right to jump into my swinging fist and cry foul, if you don't like my swinging fist stay out of its way.
 

LDS714

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I think you are the one who is confused because we have lost our rights for so long you've come to accept it.
This!!!!

Easiest way to boil a frog? Increase the water temperature very slowly, make it comfortable, make it think it's lounging in the Jacuzzi.

We're in a Jacuzzi folks, yeah, that's the ticket.

Look at how the smoking bans started.

"We just want one section on the airplane that's no smoking."

And now we have people who dismiss the 'slippery slope' arguments as foolishness.

Well, at least it's a non-smoking Jacuzzi...
 

zoiDman

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I'm pretty sure it's not happening here.

...

Of course it Is.

Maybe the ECF is Not the best place to hear about Vaper's using an e-Cigarette Disrespectfully. Because the ECF tends to Isolate people from the Non-Vaping World. And there are Plenty of Members will Rush in and Deny that Anything Bad ever happens when people use an e-Cigarette.

Texas is No Different than Illinois or California or Florida. Anywhere there are Vaper's, there is Always going to be a Small Group of People who Don't Vape Respectfully. And they Eventually Screw it Up for the Majority as a Whole.
 

Myk

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Of course it Is.

Maybe the ECF is Not the best place to hear about Vaper's using an e-Cigarette Disrespectfully. Because the ECF tends to Isolate people from the Non-Vaping World. And there are Plenty of Members will Rush in and Deny that Anything Bad ever happens when people use an e-Cigarette.

Texas is No Different than Illinois or California or Florida. Anywhere there are Vaper's, there is Always going to be a Small Group of People who Don't Vape Respectfully. And they Eventually Screw it Up for the Majority as a Whole.

I have NEVER EVER seen someone else vaping here unless it was in a vape shop or it was someone I lent an ecig to.
I'm sorry but the massive amounts of vapers fogging up restaurants and movie theaters isn't happening here.
Maybe eventually but it's not happening now.
 

zoiDman

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I have NEVER EVER seen someone else vaping here unless it was in a vape shop or it was someone I lent an ecig to.
I'm sorry but the massive amounts of vapers fogging up restaurants and movie theaters isn't happening here.
Maybe eventually but it's not happening now.

I see vaper's Everyday. But then again, I see a Lot of People Everyday.

Guess it is the Downside to Living in and Area that has an Extremely High Population Density.
 

LDS714

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Would it Surprise you that there is a Grow Fad/Trend among Some people where I am of Using 48mg or 60mg e-Liquids and Uncut Nicotine Bases?

Not in the least.

Higher concentrations of people by default mean higher concentrations of stupid.

See at one point in history, there were isolated pockets of stupid people. Why? Because going anywhere took some smarts, and most would perish on the journey. Then along came trains and other relatively safe methods of conveyance. Now they've spread across the face of the globe, and we have laws designed to protect them against themselves so they may continue ...... in the gene pool.
 

zoiDman

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Not in the least.

Higher concentrations of people by default mean higher concentrations of stupid.

...

You got that Right.

If 1 person in 1,000 is Stupid, and you live in a Town of 20,000, there are only a Handful of Stupid people. But in you live in a Metropolis of 3.1 Million, there is a Vast Army of Stupid People.

BTW - Would it Surprise you that Most of these People using 48 or 60mg are not Doing it to Quit Smoking? Because Many of them have Never Smoked a Cigarette. There Doing it for the Buzz.
 

LDS714

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You got that Right.

If 1 person in 1,000 is Stupid, and you live in a Town of 20,000, there are only a Handful of Stupid people. But in you live in a Metropolis of 3.1 Million, there is a Vast Army of Stupid People.

BTW - Would it Surprise you that Most of these People using 48 or 60mg are not Doing it to Quit Smoking? Because Many of them have Never Smoked a Cigarette. There Doing it for the Buzz.
Total lack of surprise. I appreciate a good buzz from time to time myself, but have other weapons of choice. :D
 

DC2

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BTW - Would it Surprise you that Most of these People using 48 or 60mg are not Doing it to Quit Smoking? Because Many of them have Never Smoked a Cigarette. There Doing it for the Buzz.
I guess it's time for me to admit that some people actually do get a buzz from nicotine.
I never did, and I had a hard time believing anyone ever did.

As for me, the only thing I ever got from using more nicotine was sick.

I was pretty certain that all of the "buzz" from smoking was oxygen deprivation due to carbon monoxide.
But as with everything else smoking and vaping and nicotine related, one size pretty much never fits all it appears.
 

Jman8

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Texas is No Different than Illinois or California or Florida. Anywhere there are Vaper's, there is Always going to be a Small Group of People who Don't Vape Respectfully. And they Eventually Screw it Up for the Majority as a Whole.

Okay, but um, like smoking isn't banned everywhere because at some point a bunch of rude smokers screwed it up for the majority. Nor does anyone ever cite this as the reason why.

Almost everything that is banned indoors is not based on this hypothetical minority that screwed it up for the whole. Was alcohol banned in the early 20th century because of a minority screwing it up for the majority? Perhaps, to some degree you could keep poking that stick and find some degree of truth to it, but reality doesn't match up with that rationale.

What I feel you are not getting and perhaps may not get until it is too late, is that for our opposition, vaping is rude/disrespectful wherever it is done. Outdoors or in your own property equals still rude and disrespectful. There is no minority at work causing this, it is the act itself that is rude.

Furthermore when any issue in American society is overcome, it is usually by some level of in your face confrontation. Civil rights movements, that are famous, occurred because people of that minority group dared to go against social conventions and establish that this hyped up perceived threat, perceived by the majority, is entirely unfounded. And that the minority group (or really a very tiny minority within the minority group) decided they had had enough with the bullying tactics by the majority. So, a few of them took lumps for the larger cause, perhaps a few not even making headlines and getting the crap kicked out of them for daring to go against the biased majority opinion. And now, we've swung the pendulum on many of those causes in the complete opposite direction where the bias of (or against) discrimination is no longer deemed permissible and is seen for what it is, hatred of alleged rudeness when that judgment is entirely on the person making the claim, and not on the person/activity.

Vaping is still fighting the continued battle of anti-smoking zealots, and particularly with vaping, the in your face tactic does have merits. Perhaps 50 years from now, that'll be seen differently than thru this prism of righteousness by the so called anti-rude faction. At that time (which could occur today), the mirror will be held up and the actual rude people will be those who called for bans and who kept crying "rudeness!" without looking in the mirror first.
 
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