Why Vapers are getting a BAD NAME.
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See, here's the thing...
We need every one one of us.
Each of us doing our thing, the way we see best.
We need militant vapers because they make the compromisers more attractive to those that would crush us.
We need compromisers because the militant vapers are never going to get what they want.
We need Democrats and Republicans.
We need mothers and grandfathers and fiends and neighbors.
We need everyone who understands the importance and value of vaping, and what it has meant to us.
I try to stay out of either "side" when these topics come up.
Because I believe in attacking from all angles.
Both sides have a point to make.
If we can all work together, then none of us are left behind.
How's that for a steaming load of kumbaya?
We need every one one of us.
Each of us doing our thing, the way we see best.
We need militant vapers because they make the compromisers more attractive to those that would crush us.
We need compromisers because the militant vapers are never going to get what they want.
We need Democrats and Republicans.
We need mothers and grandfathers and fiends and neighbors.
We need everyone who understands the importance and value of vaping, and what it has meant to us.
I try to stay out of either "side" when these topics come up.
Because I believe in attacking from all angles.
Both sides have a point to make.
If we can all work together, then none of us are left behind.
How's that for a steaming load of kumbaya?
See, here's the thing...
We need every one one of us.
Each of us doing our thing, the way we see best.
We need militant vapers because they make the compromisers more attractive to those that would crush us.
We need compromisers because the militant vapers are never going to get what they want.
We need Democrats and Republicans.
We need mothers and grandfathers and fiends and neighbors.
We need everyone who understands the importance and value of vaping, and what it has meant to us.
I try to stay out of either "side" when these topics come up.
Because I believe in attacking from all angles.
Both sides have a point to make.
If we can all work together, then none of us are left behind.
How's that for a steaming load of kumbaya?
Trust Me DC... We Don't Need Militant Vaper's. Not Then. Not Now. Not Every.
They may make for some Great Debates on an Electronic Cigarette Form. And Lots of People Love to come and see Someone Call Someone Else an ANTZ.
But in the Real World, the World where e-Cigarette Policies are Made, they do Nothing but Hinder those who are Trying to Get some Amount of Compromise in e-Cigarette Use.
What we need is common sense among people and an interest in creating laws based on truth.
The former may be a pipe dream, but with a dedicated effort by as many people as possible, we can accomplish the latter.
The former may be a pipe dream, but with a dedicated effort by as many people as possible, we can accomplish the latter.
See, here's the thing...
We need every one one of us.
Each of us doing our thing, the way we see best.
We need militant vapers because they make the compromisers more attractive to those that would crush us.
We need compromisers because the militant vapers are never going to get what they want.
We need Democrats and Republicans.
We need mothers and grandfathers and fiends and neighbors.
We need everyone who understands the importance and value of vaping, and what it has meant to us.
I try to stay out of either "side" when these topics come up.
Because I believe in attacking from all angles.
Both sides have a point to make.
If we can all work together, then none of us are left behind.
How's that for a steaming load of kumbaya?
^^^^ This^^^^^
And This ^^^^^^^^ EXCELLENT!
As the father of a youngin', myself. I somewhat understand the OP's problem with vaper-girl.
Got it.
However, it's always gonna be something. There's always going to be SOME thing people want to ..... about. I had the same problem when I smoked Analogs. The people who would get a whiff, and act like they just contracted Cancer immediately with their nonsense coughing and waving. If they take their air-quality so damn seriously, maybe they should be on top of the research?
For instance: Exposed: Cancer-Causing Toxins Found in Air Fresheners | Care2 Healthy Living
Now, was the OP equally offended by the use fog machines at theaters or concerts? Does he complain about the air-quality there? I wonder is he has an issue with the use of Air Fresheners in the Doc's office? No. But no doubt SOMEONE will.
If not by Air Fresheners, then maybe: Is Your Mattress Toxic? Hidden Dangers in Your Sleeping Environment - Red and Honey
It's everywhere. Something "bad for us" is EVERYWHERE. Even in our own beds.
I wonder how many people who faux cough or gag when real tobacco smoke, or even when relatively harmless vapor is around, have fireplaces in their home? How many snuggle with their little ones around a cozy fire breathing in it's essence?
They might want to see this: American Lung Association Cautions Against Wood-burning and Urges Cleaner Alternatives for Winter Heat - American Lung Association
We live in a synthetic world. Most the things we live in, and around, could very well endanger us, and our children. From our chemically-treated furniture and mattress, to the very shirt on our back: Synthetic Dyes: A look at Environmental & Human Risks | Green Cotton
Taking it all into consideration, a little vaporized E-Liquid is peanuts.
Got it.
However, it's always gonna be something. There's always going to be SOME thing people want to ..... about. I had the same problem when I smoked Analogs. The people who would get a whiff, and act like they just contracted Cancer immediately with their nonsense coughing and waving. If they take their air-quality so damn seriously, maybe they should be on top of the research?
For instance: Exposed: Cancer-Causing Toxins Found in Air Fresheners | Care2 Healthy Living
Now, was the OP equally offended by the use fog machines at theaters or concerts? Does he complain about the air-quality there? I wonder is he has an issue with the use of Air Fresheners in the Doc's office? No. But no doubt SOMEONE will.
If not by Air Fresheners, then maybe: Is Your Mattress Toxic? Hidden Dangers in Your Sleeping Environment - Red and Honey
It's everywhere. Something "bad for us" is EVERYWHERE. Even in our own beds.
I wonder how many people who faux cough or gag when real tobacco smoke, or even when relatively harmless vapor is around, have fireplaces in their home? How many snuggle with their little ones around a cozy fire breathing in it's essence?
They might want to see this: American Lung Association Cautions Against Wood-burning and Urges Cleaner Alternatives for Winter Heat - American Lung Association
We live in a synthetic world. Most the things we live in, and around, could very well endanger us, and our children. From our chemically-treated furniture and mattress, to the very shirt on our back: Synthetic Dyes: A look at Environmental & Human Risks | Green Cotton
Taking it all into consideration, a little vaporized E-Liquid is peanuts.
Not sure what you mean by confrontation, but I'm yet to confront a business or private property owner with an in your face vape session after they told me no. Nor do I always ask them why do they disallow. But I think it is important to ask why. And I have asked why. Depends on my mood I guess. Just as if I'm going to vape indoors in a place may depend on my mood, at times.
If a place has said no, and I've found out it is based on ignorance (cause it looks like smoking), then I will or have vaped there. Not routinely, and not cavalierly. I've done it in a way where I'm fairly certain the manager or staff would not see me. And didn't do it (strictly) out of spite, but because I felt like it, and I was very confident that no one would notice given the location (which in reality is most locations).
In the places I've vaped where it is allowed, when I'm in there on my own, I would say people don't even know that I'm vaping, openly. Like Home Depot would be perfect example. I could take about 10 puffs while wandering that wonderful establishment and unless I'm vaping near cash registers, I'm fairly confident nobody will notice it occurring. This being a place that twice has said it is okay. If they suddenly changed policy, I'm not sure why I would stop doing it there as I really don't think they would ever notice it being any different from a vaper like me. Heck, for all I know, everyone that's in a Home Depot is vaping. Unless you see someone doing it, how would you ever know?
Rats are super cute, and very intelligent.
And they will ride on your shoulder when you are out and about.
How is that not a good thing?
I was once on one of my adventures years ago in St. Petersburg, Russia, at a little kiosk on Vasilyevski Island on line to buy some Baltica beer, when an old babushka came in behind me with a huge rat on her shoulder. The rat was sick looking with lesions on its face and surely diseased. I was terrified, even though I easily outweighed the rat by 250 lbs. Needing the Baltica to survive the endless daylight, which is white nights, I waited and waited on line until I could buy the strong, warm malt beer- which is delicious on a hot, humid day, nervously looking over my shoulder at the rat, thinking it would jump off the old babushka and on to me...
Taking it all into consideration, a little vaporized E-Liquid is peanuts.
But I'm allergic to peanuts.
This displays an understanding of how things really work. It's unfortunate that they work that way but that's how she goes. The whole point of harsh proposals is for a strong starting point in negotiations. And by negotiations, I mean a thug has walked into your place and said "Nice place, it's a shame if x,y or z happened to it". This is public though, so it's obfuscated with political bells and whistles but you get my message. Now, we know we're not getting out of this unscathed. It's time to minimize cost in the short term with a token offer to buy time for hiring our own thugs. If only I knew someone with knowledge of 501(c)(4)'s.
IIRC for the civil rights movement, militancy didn't help until AFTER the majority were leaning towards the side of the people wanting the rights.
I think it's a huge hurt at a stage when we are making FIRST impressions, and that is our current stage.
Full-time hiding is also very harmful becaues it freezes the phase at first impressions, and our enemies have the money to .... in ahead of us if we slow down our education efforts.
Hence, as much RESPECTFUL public vaping as possible, which of course varies by locale but I promise it does not include clouds in the faces of non-smokers (in smoking areas, GO FOR IT!) or vaping in the childrens' section of a library, or anyplace else that's pretty special. Also quit if asked (indoors). Does that mean don't try to educate the person who asked? No. I try to engage as much as feasible. That, too, varies.
I think it's a huge hurt at a stage when we are making FIRST impressions, and that is our current stage.
Full-time hiding is also very harmful becaues it freezes the phase at first impressions, and our enemies have the money to .... in ahead of us if we slow down our education efforts.
Hence, as much RESPECTFUL public vaping as possible, which of course varies by locale but I promise it does not include clouds in the faces of non-smokers (in smoking areas, GO FOR IT!) or vaping in the childrens' section of a library, or anyplace else that's pretty special. Also quit if asked (indoors). Does that mean don't try to educate the person who asked? No. I try to engage as much as feasible. That, too, varies.
This post should be a sticky in the New Members forum.As the father of a youngin', myself. I somewhat understand the OP's problem with vaper-girl.
Got it.
However, it's always gonna be something. There's always going to be SOME thing people want to ..... about. I had the same problem when I smoked Analogs. The people who would get a whiff, and act like they just contracted Cancer immediately with their nonsense coughing and waving. If they take their air-quality so damn seriously, maybe they should be on top of the research?
For instance: Exposed: Cancer-Causing Toxins Found in Air Fresheners | Care2 Healthy Living
Now, was the OP equally offended by the use fog machines at theaters or concerts? Does he complain about the air-quality there? I wonder is he has an issue with the use of Air Fresheners in the Doc's office? No. But no doubt SOMEONE will.
If not by Air Fresheners, then maybe: Is Your Mattress Toxic? Hidden Dangers in Your Sleeping Environment - Red and Honey
It's everywhere. Something "bad for us" is EVERYWHERE. Even in our own beds.
I wonder how many people who faux cough or gag when real tobacco smoke, or even when relatively harmless vapor is around, have fireplaces in their home? How many snuggle with their little ones around a cozy fire breathing in it's essence?
They might want to see this: American Lung Association Cautions Against Wood-burning and Urges Cleaner Alternatives for Winter Heat - American Lung Association
We live in a synthetic world. Most the things we live in, and around, could very well endanger us, and our children. From our chemically-treated furniture and mattress, to the very shirt on our back: Synthetic Dyes: A look at Environmental & Human Risks | Green Cotton
Taking it all into consideration, a little vaporized E-Liquid is peanuts.
I spent a lot of time and effort talking to the Mayor of La Mesa trying to stop a sales ban.
In the end what La Mesa got was a ban on vaping where smoking is not allowed, with a plan to revisit the issue later.
The mayor felt that was a good compromise.
I did not.
What will be revisited is the idea of banning sales...
NOT the idea of revoking the ban on vaping where smoking is not allowed...
La Mesa did not win.
La Mesa lost.
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Like me see if I have this Straight.
By working with an Elected Official in your Area, you were able to Staff Off a Sales Ban. But think you "Lost" because of a Non-Vaping in a Non-Smoking Policy was Enacted?
You gotta start Looking at the Glass as Half Full and Not as Half Empty.
Because without Actions like yours, and Others, what was to Stop Le Mesa from Banning Vaping in areas like LA Did? As Well as Banning e-Cigarette Sales.
You also have to start Looking at the Bigger Picture.
What is Going to Happen when the FDA Deems e-Liquids to be a Tobacco Product? We are Going to See a Wave of Rubber Stamped Polices that Ban Vaping in Non-Smoking Areas.
You also make it sound like in someway it was Possible to Stop Policy Makers from Revisiting a Possible Restriction or Enacting Future Bans. This just Isn't Possible.
Policies are made and if they Work, and People Abide by them, that's as far as they go. But if there are Problems (remember UCI?) then Stricter Bans are sure to Follow.
People want to be Militant, and to Blow Off a Non-Vaping in a Non-Smoking Areas with their Vape Everywhere Attitude, what do you think Le Mesa will Do? Repeal the Non-Vaping Ban because they are Now More Educated? Or Slap Down Harsher Bans and Perhaps even Ban Sales?
Take what you, and Others, did as a Victory. Not a Partial Victory because Something else that you Didn't Want happen. But a Victory because people can still Buy and Sell e-Cigarettes in Le Mesa.
Since a "treat vaping as smoking" ban would cause smokers to continue smoking and at least some vapers to go back to smoking at least part of the time I'd call that a failure.
You gotta start looking at everyone's glass instead of being so focused on your own.
My transition from smoking to vaping was seamless. I've vaped long enough to feel definite benefits to my health that I don't want to regress on. It'd be pretty hard to get me back to smoking. I wouldn't want to be around smokers either. I feel like a non-smoker now. Especially, when exposed to smoke. It seems unfair to force us to be exposed to a product that is proven to diminish health for using a product that has improved my health and hasn't been proven to be anymore harmful than L.A.'s air.
Not sure what you mean here...
I guess I shouldn't have used the term "militant vapers" because I think all of us have different ideas of what that means.
I don't necessarily agree with the approach you stated above.
But some day, once they have taken damn near everywhere away from us, it will be time to become truly militant about vaping.
I would like to make sure people understand that, and don't fall prey to becoming accepting and complacent.
Glad the folks in La Mesa got their crumb.
Maybe they might even get to keep it for awhile.
I agree that we have to be respectful of other people when we vape. I approach it very much like when I smoked. Just because there is no sign saying "No vaping", does not mean it is open season for it. Most people who never smoked, have no idea about vaping. I get a totally different attitude from smokers vs non-smokers. A non-smoker has probably heard of e-cigarettes but knows nothing about them. When they see plumes of vapor, they see smoke and assume that you are smoking. If you want vaping to get banned everywhere, keep doing what you are doing.
When that Day Comes, Then By all Means, Go Ballistic. I'll be right there Next to You.
But Until that Day Comes, if it Comes, Let's not make it Any Harder to try and get Something Done.
--
You call Staving Off a Sales Ban a Crumb? You don't know which side of the Plate Your Ice Cream is on.
So these bans, are there means of enforcement? If you break the rules what happens? A citation? A fine? A bench warrant? Wouldn't it look bad for the supporters of these draconian measures to be sending regular, everyday people to jail? Maybe the best PR campaign of all would be showing someone's grandma being locked in the clink for enjoying a quiet vape on a park bench. My Grandma wouldn't be good though. She's a tough ol' bird that inspires little empathy. More like fear of hellfire.
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