Why Vaping Might Fail... (Manufacturers, Distributors please note)
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I don't have time to read all these great comments now, so I'm just going to put in my 2c and go to bed. I'll read tomorrow.
That's kind of my point. In order to learn, I have to put in the time it takes to actually read all eight or so pages.
When I was first intro'd to ecigs. (Just over a year ago). I went online and read everything that google brought up. I spent two weeks reading, just to decide I wanted to try vaping- and although the blu and the White Cloud sounded "cool" and similar to the mall one I was intro'd to- the 510 no box from cignot- seemed to be the best fit for me.
Then,, when I actually walked into a physical store, I knew more than the salesman. And after trying the 510 for a while and dabbling with the 808 from the local store, I researched some more! Why? Because I wanted to try the 801 penstyles. So I read everything I could. I pestered Don de Vape and ended up ordering one of every style of the penstyles. And I KNEW which ones were compatible and which ones weren't because I wanted to know.
Now, a year of vaping later.. I have parts that fit almost every style and model. I have purchased over ten different styles of mods and have been making my own juice for the better part of six months. Not everything works together. Sometimes I need things fixed or replacement parts. Some things I don't care for at all! But I love to vape.. THAT I do know.
Yes it takes work (to learn more). And yes there are piles of information out there (you can find out anything if you want it bad enough). But you have to want it.
Or you do as others suggested, and buy one of the easy mall kits. It's your choice. And I'm thankful we do have those choices.
Sent from my pod
That's kind of my point. In order to learn, I have to put in the time it takes to actually read all eight or so pages.
When I was first intro'd to ecigs. (Just over a year ago). I went online and read everything that google brought up. I spent two weeks reading, just to decide I wanted to try vaping- and although the blu and the White Cloud sounded "cool" and similar to the mall one I was intro'd to- the 510 no box from cignot- seemed to be the best fit for me.
Then,, when I actually walked into a physical store, I knew more than the salesman. And after trying the 510 for a while and dabbling with the 808 from the local store, I researched some more! Why? Because I wanted to try the 801 penstyles. So I read everything I could. I pestered Don de Vape and ended up ordering one of every style of the penstyles. And I KNEW which ones were compatible and which ones weren't because I wanted to know.
Now, a year of vaping later.. I have parts that fit almost every style and model. I have purchased over ten different styles of mods and have been making my own juice for the better part of six months. Not everything works together. Sometimes I need things fixed or replacement parts. Some things I don't care for at all! But I love to vape.. THAT I do know.
Yes it takes work (to learn more). And yes there are piles of information out there (you can find out anything if you want it bad enough). But you have to want it.
Or you do as others suggested, and buy one of the easy mall kits. It's your choice. And I'm thankful we do have those choices.
Sent from my pod
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Hey neighbor!
Welcome to ecf! After you get a few more posts under your belt, send me a PM. I'll help.
L
Sent from my pod
none? I have never seen a DVD player with a clock.
to the OP, your friend is an idiot.
Brew
To the OP: This has GOT to be one of the best posts I have read in a long time! I am a total newb to this ecig crap, and all that gobbly-.... has been driving me insane! I am an SEO guy and am quite used to gobbly-.... and acronyms and different formats of data, and all sorts of really oddball stuff, but it took me years to understand all that... Now, here I just want to quit smoking CIGARETTES (oh wait, I mean "analogs") and buy an e-cig and start smoking (oh wait, I mean "vaping")
To be honest, if I wasn't a technophobe at heart I'd have already given up on trying to figure all this crap out! This is a MAJOR deterrent for most people who are not computer people I think. Most of the people I know use a computer on a very limited level... checking their email, surfing ebay or amazon, and they wouldn't want to have to research something that (in their mind) should be something pretty simple... I even watched one video on youtube that was some store owner trying to do a Q&A type thing to explain stuff... and he said, "The question we get more than anything is, which e-cig is the best... I am so tired of hearing this stupid question cuz it's like me trying to ask you which car is the best".... to be honest, my first thought was that this guy is just an ......! I mean, I have spent ALL DAY (and this is my first day researching this stuff) and I know I am still quite far off from truely grasping all the different options and variables.
You are absolutely right... generally speaking, people who want to quit smoking and try vaping do not want to get all involved with this as some new hobby... many will, but most wont, and chances are they will buy the cheapest "kit" they can find, it will come with some horrible cartridges and they will stick it in their 'junk drawer' next to a deck of cards and some AA batteries that have been in there for 4 years that you can't throw away cuz you are not sure if they are still any good or not.
That is my 2 cents.
To be honest, if I wasn't a technophobe at heart I'd have already given up on trying to figure all this crap out! This is a MAJOR deterrent for most people who are not computer people I think. Most of the people I know use a computer on a very limited level... checking their email, surfing ebay or amazon, and they wouldn't want to have to research something that (in their mind) should be something pretty simple... I even watched one video on youtube that was some store owner trying to do a Q&A type thing to explain stuff... and he said, "The question we get more than anything is, which e-cig is the best... I am so tired of hearing this stupid question cuz it's like me trying to ask you which car is the best".... to be honest, my first thought was that this guy is just an ......! I mean, I have spent ALL DAY (and this is my first day researching this stuff) and I know I am still quite far off from truely grasping all the different options and variables.
You are absolutely right... generally speaking, people who want to quit smoking and try vaping do not want to get all involved with this as some new hobby... many will, but most wont, and chances are they will buy the cheapest "kit" they can find, it will come with some horrible cartridges and they will stick it in their 'junk drawer' next to a deck of cards and some AA batteries that have been in there for 4 years that you can't throw away cuz you are not sure if they are still any good or not.
That is my 2 cents.
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Hey Major, PM me with what type of system you use and I'll help you. You have to refill, top off, etc. to save money. One cartomizer should last from a few day to a week if you top off, longer if you clean it and reuse it. Don't throw away your current cartomizers if you haven't burnt them. When you get juice you can fill them again.
You may be right, and it's a shame too because they will likely be among the 1 in five of all deaths in America, deaths from smoking related diseases. It's a shame that they can't be bothered to educate themselves about this technology that has a smoking cessation success rate of roughly 80% (vs. the patch at about 10%, or 5% for quitting cold turkey).
But here is the other way to look at this:
Is the 'shame' on consumers who won't be interested in doing 'research' or studying or as someone suggested - simply getting 'mentors' to teach them how to have a workable e-cigarette, parts, accessories, juices,
OR,
Is the 'shame' on the industry for failing to keep it simple and making it as easy as possible to save 80% of millions instead of 80% of technogeeks?
Let me suggest to you that the differing models, threads, parts, incompatible accessories NEED NOT be that way and that this is actually to get (unnecessarily) more of your money.
All the research you do so successfully is actually a 'game' to keep you giving up cash,
yet,
IF you are concerned about saving the maximum number of lives and illnesses the actual best solution is NOT demanding more 'research' from consumers but actually LESS research-requiring products?
Can you consider that?
Let me say this (to be sure my position) - IF there is a good reason why my old 510 batteries cannot be charged in or use the same charger as my Ego charger I am not complaining. A genuine reason is fair enough and I accept it.
however,
IF I find out that there is no reason why my JUTA Charger won't work with my GeJo Batteries is for no other reason than the manufacturer PLANNED the inconvenience for the purpose of making me have to have my GoJos rendered 'useless' UNLESS I buy their specific GeJo charger?
Sorry but that annoys me. But when I see that become the 'last straw' for a possible vaping convert then I feel actually quite angry.
Sorry, I don't say to the convert "hah.. well mr.man... admit to me you are making excussssses for being too weak to quit and you are also stoopid because it doesn't take a rocket toller to have become and expert on the tap and die manufacturing process between GeJo charger fittings [even though that is not on their products anyways] but hey its your fault for not phoning and calculating metrics and polarity'."
No, I see an industry actually making it difficult for short-term gain.
My husband and daughter and I all have cell phones and yet none of our chargers are compatible! What a rip off industry that must be that I can buy three totally different products from three totally different manufacturers and yet they didn't have the simple courtesy to make all their accessories universally compatible.
I don't see how this "cell phone" industry will ever survive!
I don't see how this "cell phone" industry will ever survive!
My husband and daughter and I all have cell phones and yet none of our chargers are compatible! What a rip off industry that must be that I can buy three totally different products from three totally different manufacturers and yet they didn't have the simple courtesy to make all their accessories universally compatible.
I don't see how this "cell phone" industry will ever survive!
3 things to say here:
- There are no more 'analogs' anymore.
- People were (and still are) highly annoyed at the charger issue with cell phones and have been forcing standardized chargers.
- Most smokers have NOT bought 'cell phones'. They have not. As a statement of fact PVs are NOT being bought and succeeding like cell phones. Really. They are not.
-Cigarettes ARE simple and are far far more successful. Really. They are.
I would also suggest that two wrongs doesn't make one right. Something wrong in one industry isn't 'canceling out' the wrong in another.
cheap commodities, low wage labor, mass manufacturing --planned obsolescence, incompatible connectors, false advertising, differentiation based on status and marketing, shoddy product--rapid pace of innovation--responsiveness to demand. These are facets of capitalism that are visible in almost every consumer product and even in big ticket items like cars, refrigerators, even stoves, and of course computers and electronic entertainment crap (78s 45s lps, hi-ffi stereo, cassette 8 track, cd, mp3 player etc,). Capitalism thrives because it makes certain people money (and of course costs others) consumer satisfaction, shared standards, social goods like reduced health care costs have never been capitalisms strong suit.
celebrating capitalism--or whining about it no real point--best course work to change it...meanwhile as far as advice to OP's "friend" buy a 510 compatible battery and an adapter and shop till you drop (or run out of money).
celebrating capitalism--or whining about it no real point--best course work to change it...meanwhile as far as advice to OP's "friend" buy a 510 compatible battery and an adapter and shop till you drop (or run out of money).
Would I like it if all PVs were standardized? NO! Without diversity in products, there would be no options. I doubt there will ever be a PV that every vaper agrees is the best. Eliminating options will send people back to analogs. People who are successful with PVs are serious about stopping smoking. Therefore, they have educated themselves either through friends, independent research, or forums such as this and made an informed decision. Some people had a rocky start but, through minimal perseverance and extending their knowledge base, they have succeeded.
Your friend made an attempt to vape. I'm glad he did. However, I have the strong impression that he did not make any attempt to build a knowledge base in order to make an informed decision. Most of his issues could have been avoided by simply contacting the vendor prior to purchasing and asking which parts were compatible or after he realized the new parts did not work and asking to exchange them. Every site I have visited has a contact phone number and warranties on their products.
Every niche has it's own jargon. Would you get frustrated and quit watching baseball if they used the term RBI and you didn't understand it? Would you quit taking a prescription because the word 'efficacy' was in the literature? Would you refuse to use a computer because you don't know what a 'platform' is? Would you refuse to purchase a television because you don't know the difference between LCD and LED HD units (and hey, my 20" at home works, it just has so much static it gives me a headache)? I doubt it. Chances are, if you really wanted a new television, you would ask the sales clerk and/or look it up online. As your friend chose to keep buying blindly instead of informing himself with something as simple as a phone call, I have a hard time feeling bad about his frustration and wasted money.
Your friend made an attempt to vape. I'm glad he did. However, I have the strong impression that he did not make any attempt to build a knowledge base in order to make an informed decision. Most of his issues could have been avoided by simply contacting the vendor prior to purchasing and asking which parts were compatible or after he realized the new parts did not work and asking to exchange them. Every site I have visited has a contact phone number and warranties on their products.
Every niche has it's own jargon. Would you get frustrated and quit watching baseball if they used the term RBI and you didn't understand it? Would you quit taking a prescription because the word 'efficacy' was in the literature? Would you refuse to use a computer because you don't know what a 'platform' is? Would you refuse to purchase a television because you don't know the difference between LCD and LED HD units (and hey, my 20" at home works, it just has so much static it gives me a headache)? I doubt it. Chances are, if you really wanted a new television, you would ask the sales clerk and/or look it up online. As your friend chose to keep buying blindly instead of informing himself with something as simple as a phone call, I have a hard time feeling bad about his frustration and wasted money.
@OP: "Please help me: I want to buy a car!
I don't want to mess with petrol, diesel, different parts or different service providers. I just want a car with four wheels and a driver's wheel, all interchangeble, the engine from your car, what is that? A toyota? The wheels from that other can't spell its name VW car. I want to fuel it at the pump which closer to the tank, green, black, blue, lpg, whatever, I just can't be bothered to learn different types of fuel and engines"
"oh, there is no car like that, not even in the US? I see, then I won't buy a car anymore, I shall walk! By the way why are your shoes so small and uncomfortable? I thought we all have the same feet and use the same shoes..."
I don't want to mess with petrol, diesel, different parts or different service providers. I just want a car with four wheels and a driver's wheel, all interchangeble, the engine from your car, what is that? A toyota? The wheels from that other can't spell its name VW car. I want to fuel it at the pump which closer to the tank, green, black, blue, lpg, whatever, I just can't be bothered to learn different types of fuel and engines"
"oh, there is no car like that, not even in the US? I see, then I won't buy a car anymore, I shall walk! By the way why are your shoes so small and uncomfortable? I thought we all have the same feet and use the same shoes..."
You can charge an eGo on a 510 charger (it will take a lot longer), but not the other way around. The eGo charger puts out more amps than the smaller 510 battery can handle and you run the risk of frying the protection circuit and possible explosion.
A quick search reveals these threads that explain it:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-question-about-joye-510-a-2.html#post2449543
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/battery-issues/149658-can-i-charge-ego-batt.html
See what a little research can do for you, instead of getting ...... about a situation you can get understanding.
P.S. Cell phones have no excuse! For a while (here in South Korea) they were all standardized, and life was good... then they started shrinking more and each company took a slightly different approach... .......s.
Capitalism thrives because people, of their own free will, are willing to to exchange their labor (in the form of money) for someone else's labor and they both derive value in the transaction. Nobody complains about compatibility until a better product comes along. Then all of the sudden they feel screwed because they can't get the better product for free. In other words, they want someone else's labor without expending any of their labor. That's evil. It's not capitalism that's the problem, it's selfish people that are the problem.
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My friend is definitely working capitalism to the fullest. He is giving money to Players tobacco and not a PV company. Why are you whining about him doing this and why did you write the word friend in quotations?
I would say if someone invents an alternative car which does not work with gas station fuel pumps most here will not buy it. That specific car technology will disappear or find a way to standardize (work with commonly available pumps). Oh wait.. that did happen.
Capitalism. Common sense. Standard plug-ins on PV chargers fit almost all wall sockets. Capitalism.
I think I'm better at capitalism in this case. I think that PV manufacturers who, at the next conference, declare some standards WILL all end up making much more money, price will go down for all and millions upon millions more will quit smoking and/or start vaping.
I might be right.
Is it heartless of me to say that the OP's friend is an example of Darwin's Theories at work?
This isn't rocket science. The information IS out there. Yes, cigarettes are "easier", but only for the last 75 years or so...for the 100+ years before that, they were a time consuming enterprise, requiring the transportation of "makings" on your person, skill in personal manufacture, and knowledge of product...before that they didn't exist, you had a form of pipe and that was it...and STILL had to know how to make or buy the right stuff.
Other posters' comparison to various vehicle models/makes, TV's, computers, etc. was quite on the money IMO. Individuals of the "I just want to be able to push the gas and go...not THINK" mentality are the same ones that complain about being "cheated" at the car lot when they purchase without being informed, call repair shops crooks because of the high prices charged (can YOU fix it?), and whine when their "new" computer turns out to be "obsolete". They seem to think everything in life should be easy, with no effort on their part at all.
Lazy or dumb?...it all comes to the same thing. It's too "hard" for them. So, rather than putting forth the effort, they end up blaming other things for their lack of initiative throughout their lives. They buy over-priced items (without learning from their mistakes, since we're all guilty of this from time to time), they spend far more than they should on repairs or upgrades that could have been avoided through simple maintenance, or they use products that there is a PLETHORA of information about the dangers of using, and then wonder why they get sick and die.
But it isn't THEIR fault..."someone" should have made it "easier".
This isn't rocket science. The information IS out there. Yes, cigarettes are "easier", but only for the last 75 years or so...for the 100+ years before that, they were a time consuming enterprise, requiring the transportation of "makings" on your person, skill in personal manufacture, and knowledge of product...before that they didn't exist, you had a form of pipe and that was it...and STILL had to know how to make or buy the right stuff.
Other posters' comparison to various vehicle models/makes, TV's, computers, etc. was quite on the money IMO. Individuals of the "I just want to be able to push the gas and go...not THINK" mentality are the same ones that complain about being "cheated" at the car lot when they purchase without being informed, call repair shops crooks because of the high prices charged (can YOU fix it?), and whine when their "new" computer turns out to be "obsolete". They seem to think everything in life should be easy, with no effort on their part at all.
Lazy or dumb?...it all comes to the same thing. It's too "hard" for them. So, rather than putting forth the effort, they end up blaming other things for their lack of initiative throughout their lives. They buy over-priced items (without learning from their mistakes, since we're all guilty of this from time to time), they spend far more than they should on repairs or upgrades that could have been avoided through simple maintenance, or they use products that there is a PLETHORA of information about the dangers of using, and then wonder why they get sick and die.
But it isn't THEIR fault..."someone" should have made it "easier".
I have to admit that it was waaayy easier to go pick up a pack of pall malls. The thing about this is I am proud to say that I vape, and dont some the cancer sticks. I was not proud to say that I was a smoker. I know there are a lot of great vaping devices and components out there that would put off more vapor, or do something different. but if you can just get anyone to try it in the first place, get them to get a simple two part battery and cartomiser system like the many different brands there are. I for one am not 100% pleased with the vapor production, and battery life of battery life of my Smoke Tip, but I dont think I will switch brands for at least a while (If I do I'm getting a vapor king) for the simple fact that I have cartomisers to fill, and I puff on my pv and get vapor and throat hit. Gotta learn to control yourself unless you really DO want a tech hobby. I may not be the most experienced vaper, but I know enough to know that this it is easy to stick to one brand and not have compatibility issues and bum atomisers and all the above. 
Ok. So you made your point. You think ecigs should be easier.
Hang on.....
Sent from my pod
Hang on.....
Sent from my pod
I had to log in.
It's easier to type on my lap top. Of course, in order to get here on my laptop, I had to open my computer, wait for it to boot up, log in, then come find this page. However.. after all that work (my ipod is much simpler)... THEN it becomes easier. hmmm See any parallels?Anyhoo.. as I was saying,
So you made your point, you think ecigs should be easier.. it should be easier to start vaping. OK.. well it's not (and for good reason, but that's just IMHO) So now I ask you... What are you going to do about it?
What can you do to help your friend? Do you know how to use the various parts? Do you know how to find adapters? Do you know how to refill cartos, or find juice.. or better yet; make your own?
How can YOU help?
The vaping world is a vast and huge place. Yes, it's a whole other world out there.. there are piles of information, pages of data, oodles of things to learn. IF you know some of it.. how can you help? What can you do to help the newest kid on the block to succeed?
We can all do a little to make it easier for the next person. When I first started vaping, I spent a long time reading and absorbing everything I could, because that's what I do. I'm curious. But I still felt completely in the dark. Lucky for me, I found ECF early on, and discovered that this forum is filled with information. But better than that.. it is manned by hundreds (if not thousands) of kind and generous people that have helped me to learn more. Every step of the way, someone was there to answer my question, to offer an encouraging word, to guide me in finding the correct knowledge that I needed to succeed. Now I'm trying to do the same.
Lucky for ALL of us, that there is a commarderie, a fellowship of sorts, a desire to help each other. Yes, your friends, your neighbors, your co-workers may not have the time, the inclination, or the patience to find out how to do something, or how it works- but if you do.. how can you help?
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