Why would HR 2058 pass?

[NancyR]

So, what exactly is best case scenario?

The best case would be that we were under the Modified Risk tobacco Products. The bad news, it's currently almost impossible to get.

Out of the 8 applications that were started for that classification ( 7 of the companies we don't have the names for), FDA refused to accept 2 of the applications, refused to file 4 of them, and 1 was withdrawn.

The only application to get accepted is from Swedish Match, one of (if not the) largest makers of swedish snus.

Many of us are watching and waiting to find out how theirs turns out, as that would be the best option for vapor products as would allow then allow our vendors to say the truth of them being safer than smoking.

 

[Stubby]

What was the rationale for using that 2007 date? I mean, just because they've been busy turning a blind eye to the dangers of Chantix for 8 yrs, do they really expect that the rest of the world was just sitting around with their thumbs up their butts? It seems like something from a fable, "How to run gov't stupidly and corruptly so you can turn time backward" or something.

Andria

That was the date the original bill was introduced that gave the FDA regulatory authority over tobacco. It wasn't passed until 2009, but the original date was kept as is.

 

[AndriaD]

I think you're off on your reason.

In 2007 ecig were all cigalikes with sealed, non refillable carts. I think the 2007 date what chosen to allow big tobacco to continue to sell cigalikes with sealed carts but remove the market that competes against them. No more tanks, no more RTA/RBAs, no clearos, no refillable carts, and no mods. Just sealed carts attached to cigalikes.

Joyetech released the Joye 510 in early 2008 and the Ego line in early 2009. That's why the 2007 data was chosen. They want to limit ecigs to what they were before Joytech brought these refillable products to market.

Which is exactly like trying to stuff the internet back in a bottle, so we can all go back to pagers and phone booths and long distance charges.

When technology exists, no edict is going to un-make it. What total buffoons.

Andria

 

[crxess]

I think you're off on your reason.

In 2007 ecig were all cigalikes with sealed, non refillable carts. I think the 2007 date what chosen to allow big tobacco to continue to sell cigalikes with sealed carts but remove the market that competes against them. No more tanks, no more RTA/RBAs, no clearos, no refillable carts, and no mods. Just sealed carts attached to cigalikes.

Joyetech released the Joye 510 in early 2008 and the Ego line in early 2009. That's why the 2007 data was chosen. They want to limit ecigs to what they were before Joytech brought these refillable products to market.

No, that Date was already in existence.

This vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

That was the date the original bill was introduced that gave the FDA regulatory authority over tobacco. It wasn't passed until 2009, but the original date was kept as is.

And Tobacco interest are implicated in the finalization of said legislation. It protected the Big Tobacco Companies from incoming competition while allowing them to continue daily business as usual.

http://www.aafp.org/dam/AAFP/documents/advocacy/prevention/tobacco/LT-HHS-GrandfatherDate-012915.pdf

FDA is attempting to use exactly the same Gibberish it did originally to now wipe the E-cig industry from existence.

This is why I Keep screaming
Hydrogen is NOT water
Nicotine is NOT Tobacco

but no one is listening

 

[Stubby]

And Tobacco interest are implicated in the finalization of said legislation. It protected the Big Tobacco Companies from incoming competition while allowing them to continue daily business as usual.

http://www.aafp.org/dam/AAFP/documents/advocacy/prevention/tobacco/LT-HHS-GrandfatherDate-012915.pdf

FDA is attempting to use exactly the same Gibberish it did originally to now wipe the E-cig industry from existence.

This is why I Keep screaming
Hydrogen is NOT water
Nicotine is NOT Tobacco

but no one is listening

The Tobacco Control act of 2009 has been jokingly called the Marlboro protection act. It essentially freezes the industry at 2007. There is a long history of corruption with this bill that includes not only the tobacco companies, but just as importantly the tobacco control industry. They all had there fingers in the pie in creating that monstrosity. This is the same tobacco control industry that is now pushing hard to not have the grandfather date changed.

You might want to keep the nicotine is not tobacco out of this. Besides being questionable, that ship has sailed and it adds nothing to the discussion. Your screaming is in vain.

 

[Outcast]

This sucks. Time to stockpile everything: Coils, Liquid, Batteries, Mods, Tanks.
I feel bad for anyone trying to stop smoking in the future, who could've started vaping.

Batteries are not just used for mods thy will stay I use RDA so coil wire will still be around I would say get in to RTA and RDA and get nic bace


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AndriaD]

The Tobacco Control act of 2009 has been jokingly called the Marlboro protection act. It essentially freezes the industry at 2007. There is a long history of corruption with this bill that includes not only the tobacco companies, but just as importantly the tobacco control industry. They all had there fingers in the pie in creating that monstrosity. This is the same tobacco control industry that is now pushing hard to not have the grandfather date changed.

You might want to keep the nicotine is not tobacco out of this. Besides being questionable, that ship has sailed and it adds nothing to the discussion. Your screaming is in vain.

Nicotine is NOT tobacco. Just like caffeine is not coffee. You don't see "coffee product" anywhere on a Coke or Pepsi, do you?

Andria

 

[NancyR]

Nicotine is NOT tobacco. Just like caffeine is not coffee. You don't see "coffee product" anywhere on a Coke or Pepsi, do you?

Andria

But there are many sources for caffeine, until recently the only cost effective nicotine was from tobacco. They claim to have a nic that is synthesized, but honestly I don't know enough about it to trust that idea yet.

 

[AndriaD]

But there are many sources for caffeine, until recently the only cost effective nicotine was from tobacco. They claim to have a nic that is synthesized, but honestly I don't know enough about it to trust that idea yet.

There may be many sources for caffeine, but *by far* the richest source is coffee beans. Just as with nicotine.. why would use a less-efficient, more-expensive way of getting a substance when it can be gotten so easily from coffee beans -- or tobacco?

Andria

 

[Stubby]

But there are many sources for caffeine, until recently the only cost effective nicotine was from tobacco. They claim to have a nic that is synthesized, but honestly I don't know enough about it to trust that idea yet.

Tobacco is still the only viable source for nicotine. Synthetic nicotine is very expensive and not nearly as effective as natural nicotine. The argument that we are not tobacco has always been suspect, besides being a waste of time and energy.

People who vape use nicotine for the same reasons people smoke, as a recreational product. If you extract the active ingredient in a product that can't be named on ECF as it is still illegal in most states, but legal in a few, it is still considered as the original product, just a different form. Legally it is the same. Extracting the active ingredient in tobacco (where all of the nicotine used by people who vape comes from) and trying to claim it is something else makes no sense both biologically and legally. The arguments that we are not tobacco have always been very weak. I have to wonder why people continue to claim it. Perhaps the Anti's have so brainwashed some that they are ashamed to admit they use a tobacco product.

No matter as that ship has sailed. The FDA is about to deem e-liquid as a tobacco product so that is the reality we have to deal with.

 

[NancyR]

Tobacco is still the only viable source for nicotine. Synthetic nicotine is very expensive and not nearly as effective as natural nicotine. The argument that we are not tobacco has always been suspect, besides being a waste of time and energy.

People who vape use nicotine for the same reasons people smoke, as a recreational product. If you extract the active ingredient in a product that can't be named on ECF as it is still illegal in most states, but legal in a few, it is still considered as the original product, just a different form. Legally it is the same. Extracting the active ingredient in tobacco (where all of the nicotine used by people who vape comes from) and trying to claim it is something else makes no sense both biologically and legally. The arguments that we are not tobacco have always been very weak. I have to wonder why people continue to claim it. Perhaps the Anti's have so brainwashed some that they are ashamed to admit they use a tobacco product.

No matter as that ship has sailed. The FDA is about to deem e-liquid as a tobacco product so that is the reality we have to deal with.

There is an affordable nic option being marketed to juice makers at this point that is claiming to be synthetic nic, even SJ mentioned it here in ECF not long ago and they were at one of the trade shows passing out info a month or so back.

 

[Stubby]

There is an affordable nic option being marketed to juice makers at this point that is claiming to be synthetic nic, even SJ mentioned it here in ECF not long ago and they were at one of the trade shows passing out info a month or so back.

And if there was I will tell you exactly what will happen. The FDA would regulate it as a drug and it will be off the market in short order. Legally tobacco actually has certain protections that would not be applicable to other sources of nicotine.

 

[NancyR]

And if there was I will tell you exactly what will happen. The FDA would regulate it as a drug and it will be off the market in short order. Legally tobacco actually has certain protections that would not be applicable to other sources of nicotine.

While I haven't tried their nic, and honestly don't plan on it til I know a whole lot more.

https://inventively.com/search/trademarks/86425676

 

[Completely Average]

Nicotine is NOT tobacco. Just like caffeine is not coffee. You don't see "coffee product" anywhere on a Coke or Pepsi, do you?

Andria

No, but the "Cola" is actually the Kola plant. The caffeine in Coca Cola comes from Kola nut extract.


And for the record, you can grow your own tobacco. Believe it or not growing your own tobacco is not regulated in any way provided to you not distribute it to others. You always have the option of growing a plant or two and then extracting your own nicotine for use with vaping.

 

[crxess]

No, but the "Cola" is actually the Kola plant. The caffeine in Coca Cola comes from Kola nut extract.


And for the record, you can grow your own tobacco. Believe it or not growing your own tobacco is not regulated in any way provided to you not distribute it to others. You always have the option of growing a plant or two and then extracting your own nicotine for use with vaping.

Not so simple a process for getting Clean Nicotine.

People need to start Rattling cages.

Hydrogen is NOT Water
Nicotine is NOT Tobacco

If Nicotine exist in any other anything other than Tobacco, It does not matter what source it is extracted from.

Stop the LIES!!!
Nicotine Does NOT lead to Cancers
Nicotine will NOT lead to Smoking...........(unless the FDA has its way)
Nicotine in Low Dose is NOT a Poison

Rant off

 

[AndriaD]

No, but the "Cola" is actually the Kola plant. The caffeine in Coca Cola comes from Kola nut extract.


And for the record, you can grow your own tobacco. Believe it or not growing your own tobacco is not regulated in any way provided to you not distribute it to others. You always have the option of growing a plant or two and then extracting your own nicotine for use with vaping.

I've got 5 yrs worth in my freezer, though that was figured at my previous 10mg level; I'm at 6.5mg now, heading for 5mg, which would make it 10 yrs' worth. I figure before that runs out, I can wean even further, though I don't know for sure it's the nicotine that keeps me "addicted" -- I think it's mostly the behavior. But I do value the nicotine for its cognitive benefits.

Andria

 

[sparkky1]

Tobacco is still the only viable source for nicotine. Synthetic nicotine is very expensive and not nearly as effective as natural nicotine. The argument that we are not tobacco has always been suspect, besides being a waste of time and energy.

People who vape use nicotine for the same reasons people smoke, as a recreational product. If you extract the active ingredient in a product that can't be named on ECF as it is still illegal in most states, but legal in a few, it is still considered as the original product, just a different form. Legally it is the same. Extracting the active ingredient in tobacco (where all of the nicotine used by people who vape comes from) and trying to claim it is something else makes no sense both biologically and legally. The arguments that we are not tobacco have always been very weak. I have to wonder why people continue to claim it. Perhaps the Anti's have so brainwashed some that they are ashamed to admit they use a tobacco product.

No matter as that ship has sailed. The FDA is about to deem e-liquid as a tobacco product so that is the reality we have to deal with.

Tomato & eggplant ? They would probably just find another loophole ...........

 

[espkh123]

It is a shame really that I am already planning for a world where I can smoke a cigarette just fine, but I will be thrown in jail for using my vape.

I wonder what kind of loop-holes we will be able to find. However, will it make the product get priced to a point where it is not financially feasible?

I kind of feel like this isn't going to end well at all and we might not just get banned, but completely illegal.

 

[RhynoRock]

Now if every single vaper can donate about $1000 per person to a big pot and buy the legislation, we MIGHT have a chance at winning.

 

[Gothicmace59]

Looking at a bill that would effectively kill a multi-billion dollar industry doesn't seem like it would be in the best interest from the government, they would be killing jobs thousands of jobs in addition to losing out on the millions of dollars of tax generated from sales and manufacturing.

I know everybody's freaking out that they want to keep their vape mostly because of its ability to be used as cessation device, but shouldn't we really be talking about how many people are going to lose their jobs? I know tobacco and big pharm are powerful, but this would be incredibly stupid from a political standpoint to let this pass.

Thoughts about this? Should we be changing the tone of our voice? What are manufactures doing to combat this, don't they stand to lose the most?

Not to mention the fact.... We are also voters as well....and why would you vote to keep somebody in office that caused this to happen. I did my part and contacted everybody from the Whitehouse on down.