Will machines ever surpass Humans??

[bassnut]

I don't find it hard to believe, and it's my opinion that we've given to much thought to "what if" and not enough to "how to"... maybe if we facilitate in a SAFE way, when robots process their own individuality, both the user and computer can get along pretty well. Then we won't have to worry about the machines trying to take over to save man from himself, or enslaving mankind to be entrapped forever as their power source, or just straight up going on a crush-spree.

Please allow me to repeat myself:

First of all Isaac Asimov had the safety issue covered as far back as 1942 with the 3 rules for robots (computers).

1. A robot (computer) may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2. A robot (computer) must obey any orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. A robot (computer) must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

This needs to be integral to their program.

Secondly my first statement was "My wife has replaced me with a machine already." and it didn't even rate a chuckle but at least I amused myself with it.

 

[NCC]

Show me a computer with true unique artistic abilities and I will eat my words. I swear to God I will eat an entire sock!
Just my 1/50th of a dollar..

Nobody can show you that computer, yet. I think your sock is safe for the near future. Possibly for the rest of your life ... I don't know how old you are.

Computers have already surpassed humans in many ways. At a root level, they're only glorified calculators, comparing bits and doing basic arithmetic. But, they do these most basic of logical operations so FAST that with programming you get all the magic we see today. Get close to the machine like a machine code programmer, do away with the multitudes of pre-written subroutines, DLLs, and higher programming languages ... and computers are still pretty basic, they're still binary. This will change. Here too. (links)


With adequate processing, and adaptive programming (self modifying) you will be convinced the machine is thinking. I feel a better question for the thread would be, "Will machines ever be sentient?" There is no doubt that they will be able to accomplish most any task humans can do, and do it better and faster than humans ... at some point.

But, will they feel?
Will they actually be self aware?
Will they be conscious?


bassnut, I've been familiar with Asimov's rules of robotics for decades. But, let's not confuse science fiction with science fact. Yes, those rules may need to be an integral part of their programming. But, that doesn't mean they will be.
I find believable arguments that in the not so near future, non-biological beings could very well become the master 'species'. It isn't so far fetched. Especially when they're not only building themselves, but evolutionarily designing themselves right down to the circuitry.

 

[Surf Monkey]

People are always talking about how computers will soon surpass human intelligence, and I have to disagree. Computers are nothing but simulators in that they can superficially simulate human decisions based on weighing mathematical probabilities, but they cannot reproduce the way our brains function.

Wait until quantum computing hits in about five years and you'll change your tune.

 

[Surf Monkey]

But, will they feel?
Will they actually be self aware?
Will they be conscious?

There's no doubt in my mind that they will satisfy these requirements. Human beings are highly arrogant when it comes to their own intelligence. They have the impression that humans are somehow vastly superior to other animals in their ability to reason, feel, be self aware and conscious. But I think it's more of a sliding scale. Can your dog feel? Of course he can. How about being conscious? Is your dog conscious? I think so. What about self aware? Is your dog self aware? I think to a somewhat lesser degree than humans, but yes, I'd argue that dogs have a level of self awareness. That's just one example. There's an entire kingdom of animals out there with varying degrees of the above qualities. Artificial intelligence will work its way up through the scale, eventually matching or besting humans. There is absolutely no reason why sufficiently powerful and complex synthetic machines can't achieve the exact same properties that sufficiently powerful and complex organic machines exhibit.

 

[NCC]

Wait until quantum computing hits in about five years and you'll change your tune.

Dang, you said that so much better than I did.

 

[bassnut]

bassnut, I've been familiar with Asimov's rules of robotics for decades. But, let's not confuse science fiction with science fact. Yes, those rules may need to be an integral part of their programming. But, that doesn't mean they will be.

Why not?
Does that throw a wrench into your concept?
Think "real" not Hollywood. (fantasy)
If you continue with this cartoonish "Star Warts" ideology you will too soon find yourself old and side-lined (obsolete) while the rest of the world moves on into science fact and practice.
If you really want to contribute to technology, go to school and get some discovery tools. If not, make a science fiction movies. It's a lot easier and you'll influence more people and maybe make a couple of bucks at it.

 

[BradSmith]

Honestly although many advances have been made. A ton of things have gone downhill.

The best guitars in the world today are still not a handmade Fullerton Strat. An old fuzz box or a baby wah ran through a full tube marshall stack has never been improved on.

ps. the Foundation series ruled.

 

[NCC]

Why not?
Does that throw a wrench into your concept?
Think "real" not Hollywood. (fantasy)
If you continue with this cartoonish "Star Warts" ideology you will too soon find yourself old and side-lined (obsolete) while the rest of the world moves on into science fact and practice.
If you really want to contribute to technology, go to school and get some discovery tools. If not, make a science fiction movies. It's a lot easier and you'll influence more people and maybe make a couple of bucks at it.

What do you mean, "Why not?"
So, far as I know, there is no legal requirement that they be used. I thought it was you who were hanging on too tightly to science fiction.

And with that, it's off to work I go.

 

[Safira]

Honestly although many advances have been made. A ton of things have gone downhill.

The best guitars in the world today are still not a handmade Fullerton Strat. An old fuzz box or a baby wah ran through a full tube marshall stack has never been improved on.

ps. the Foundation series ruled.

Brad, I remember back in the '80's (crap did *I* just say that) when all the electronic instruments started to 1st come out. I hate even the idea of things like electronic drums. I thought by now we'd all be sitting in front of a computer typing in our music, and things like music theory, and just the physical aspects that go into playing an instrument would be gone.

Then Rick Allen had his accident. I had to admit to myself there was some good in this. I still want to scream at the top of my lungs when my 15yr old son is sitting in front of his Wii with that fake guitar thing in his hands trying to make up a song. He has no idea what chord progression is, or even what a scale is. Nor does he really think he cares to learn that stuff. Remember when you were that age, I know I used to kinda roll my eyes at music theory. Fortunately with age comes wisdom.

 

[o4_srt]

I thought by now we'd all be sitting in front of a computer typing in our music, and things like music theory, and just the physical aspects that go into playing an instrument would be gone.

hmmm, sounds like a majority of music on the radio these days....exactly why I don't listen to it.

 

[DaveP]

Thinking and problem solving in robots has come a long way. If you look back, the first handheld calculators took about 20 years to come to market after the first room size computers began to appear. Robots in science fiction movies of the time still looked like Robby the Robot, but we all know that the dreams of science fiction generally become reality over time.

Right now the challenge is before us to create reliable, thinking machines for space missions. Considering that it takes 8 minutes or longer for a command to reach a Mars rover, the need for independent action is crucial to success in these missions. Need sparks invention. We obtained many battery powered tools and lots of nice toys from the Shuttle missions and we will eventually develop substantial AI for planet exploration.

We have discovered much information about how the brain works in a mechanical sense, but we don't really know how the "firmware" is programmed or where it is actually located. A baby is born with certain instincts and intelligence. He has the ability to respond, to demand food, and get our attention. The child grows in intelligence through stimulation over time and begins to learn our language and demonstrate traits that we recognize as "inherited" from parents. But, no one has discovered just how this is passed down through the DNA of the parents or how the cells maintain their programmed orders and sequences to carry on the miracle of life.

The Robot Dog video earlier in the thread is fascinating, but it learns to negotiate obstacles and learns through trial and error and re-programming how to recognize the landscape, that's all. I think that we are at least 100 years away from re-creating the human form with all it's reasoning power and self actuation ability. It would be miraculous to see a robot command a space exploration vehicle and communicate back in our language with the intelligence of a highly trained human, but I don't think I'll see any of that happen in my lifetime unless we actually do have some top secret alien technology under wraps in some hanger in Area 51.

 

[martha1014]

I don't believe computers and robots will ever replace sex, reproduction or the feeling of love and commitent we have for each other.

 

[NCC]

I don't believe computers and robots will ever replace sex, reproduction or the feeling of love and commitent we have for each other.

Martha, I like it when I see a post of yours with which I can agree.

But, the question is, will they have those feelings for each other.

 

[bassnut]

What do you mean, "Why not?"
So, far as I know, there is no legal requirement that they be used. I thought it was you who were hanging on too tightly to science fiction.

And with that, it's off to work I go.

OK. You're right. Sorry for the rant. I see your point. I was attacking an idea and you just happened to be there....and I should have been sleeping.
Programming safeguards into computers is a good idea but that doesn't mean it's going to be integral to all programs.
I'm sure there are still people surfing the net without antivirus protection. Did I just refer to all Mac users?

I do love science fiction classics but the idea of out of control computers turning on their makers has been science fiction fodder for decades.
I'm seeing the same topic discussed here as if it were a new concept. Granted, the threat is closer to reality now than it was in 1942. A computer that can beat you at chess might also decide to lock you out of your house if it doesn't like your attitude after a hard day at the office because your wife clicked the "chill before entering" box in the home security computer's options menu.

Nano technology is the field most likely to produce anything threatening. It may have already happened.
I think a small jar of self-replicating bug-bots could be used to stem the flow of oil into the gulf right now.
The problem is trying to coax those little suckers back into the jar(s) after the job is done.
I don't want to have to pick bug-bots out of my Gumbo before I eat it.

 

[bassnut]

I don't believe computers and robots will ever replace sex, reproduction or the feeling of love and commitent we have for each other.

I was just recently busted and exposed as being a sci-fi fanatic.
In keeping with my rep let me recommend some reading - from Amazon:

A brilliant third installment to the Robot Series, January 26, 1999
By A Customer

This review is from: The Robots of Dawn (Mass Market Paperback)
Just when you thought the first two books "Caves of Steel" and "The Naked Sun" were as good as Asimov gets, here comes "The Robots of Dawn" and knocks them both down in one blow. In this novel, a middle aged Detective Elijah Baley sets out on his most defying investigation ever. His journey takes him to the capital of the Spacer Worlds; the planet Aurora, where he is reunited with his old partner R. Daneel Olivaw.
The story has everything that I missed in the first two books, including some romance with the sexy Gladia Delmarre (which Lije was always too cautious about in "The Naked Sun").
Asimov hooks you on the "whodunnit" trail right from the start, and gives you a knock on the head right at the end. Truly spectacular, a work of a genuis.
In this book, Asimov makes Aurora feel like your own world, describing every bit of detail with superb depictions and without a single sense of tediousness. For the first time, the relationship of robots with humans when it comes to sexual intercourse is explored, and how the three laws of robotics handle it.
An absolute MUST read for all those who adored the first two books of the robot series. Isaac Asimov, I personaly salute you.

 

[Grenage]

I really liked "Do androids dream of Electric Sheep". Bladerunner .......ised that book.

 

[tribalmasters]

I'm sorry my robot overheated and spilt the coffee!!

 

[Pav]

Of course humans will be surpassed by computers.

YouTube - Flight Of The Conchords - The Humans Are Dead

 

[Safira]

The Robot Dog video earlier in the thread is fascinating, but it learns to negotiate obstacles and learns through trial and error and re-programming how to recognize the landscape, that's all. I think that we are at least 100 years away from re-creating the human form with all it's reasoning power and self actuation ability. It would be miraculous to see a robot command a space exploration vehicle and communicate back in our language with the intelligence of a highly trained human, but I don't think I'll see any of that happen in my lifetime unless we actually do have some top secret alien technology under wraps in some hanger in Area 51.

Bolding is mine:

so it learns from it's mistakes. Then hasn't machine already surpassed some humans?

Sorry I just had to.

 

[bassnut]

I don't know but they already to some amazing things.


YouTube - The latest version of the LittleDog Robot

Wow.
I just got around to seeing this having missed it the first time ( I was at work). Thanks for posting Safira and thanks for reminding me, DaveP.