withdrawal from MAOI in cigarettes?

[frankie1]

I am having some strange symptoms. I am a 57 year old female with no known health problems, except for some wheezing that was attributed to smoking. I am having some problems that I THINK are related to MAOI withdrawal from quitting smoking. I have been to 3 doctors (in a small area) and none seem willing to actually address the issue with me. Instead, they have me wearing a heart monitor and are doing a complete heart study. That is all well and good and I will continue the study, but I don't think that is the answer. I have had several EKGs all of which are normal. Blood work is normal. Lungs have cleared up since vaping.

I would like to discuss my particular situation with someone who is a doctor, and is knowledgeable in PV use. I am trying to do the research myself, but I don't have any medical knowledge. I think my problems might stem from MAOI withdrawal. Does anyone think that could be correct? Is there enough anti depressant in cigarettes (2PAD smoker) that cessation could be triggering withdrawal symptoms from the anti depressants?

My symptoms are consistent and occur sporadically:

Pounding heart
Rapid Pulse (last night ranged between high 90's to 120)
slight nausea
slight light headedness (this seems to be increasing)
uncomfortable feeling in legs
jerking
BM every time symptoms occur even though would not normally do so
Frequent urination - like every few minutes. I normally urinate quite a bit because I do drink a lot of water but this is more pronounced.
Elevated blood pressure (last night around 166/90)

I do NOT:
panic or halucinate
become disorientated
lose consciousness
stumble
have slurred speech
have an elevated body temperature

I had a particularly difficult time last night and had felt tired all day. I am not worried or upset about anything...until I get scared that I am having a heart attack or stroke! LOL

These bouts seem to come on each time I make a further reduction in cigarette intake. I still smoke 5-6 each day. On Tues., I didn't have a smoke at all until late afternoon. On Wed., I held it to 3 smokes until this happened around 10 PM. It seems to help if I smoke a cigarette and cover up with a blanket to get warm. Oh...I live in Florida, it is still hot here..92 right now. I have AC and keep my house around 77 degrees, so I know I am not cold.


Whew...sorry so long. I don't really know what else to do. My docs, 1 internist, 1 urgent care doc when internist couldn't see me and now a cardiologist, all seem to just blow me off when I try to discuss the problem. They don't seem to think it is related, but I think it might be. I know any responses are opinions only and I am not asking for an internet diagnosis. I would not substitute the comments for my doctors advice. I am just trying to figure out if I COULD be right and possibly get some suggestions on better information I could give to my doctor to find the problem. I don't mind the heart study...I just don't want to have a stroke while they are looking at the heart!

Thank you very much to anyone willing to respond!

 

[beckah54]

I can't offer any advice but I did want to tell you how sorry I am that you're going through this.......it has to be very scary.

Do you think it could partially be panic attacks or too much caffeine?

 

[WebJunkie]

Pounding heart
Rapid Pulse (last night ranged between high 90's to 120)
slight nausea
slight light headedness (this seems to be increasing)
uncomfortable feeling in legs
jerking,
BM every time symptoms occur even though would not normally do so
Frequent urination - like every few minutes. I normally urinate quite a bit because I do drink a lot of water but this is more pronounced.
Elevated blood pressure (last night around 166/90)

What immediately comes to mind is nicotine poisoning, or overdosing. You might try reducing your nicotine levels for a while, i'd probably start by halfing, and see if your symptoms relent or persist.

Granted, this doesn't cover everything, and perhaps you could be slightly alergic to the PG and may wish to try VG juice, but I would start by moderating your nicotine levels, personally.

Just for the record, I am not a doctor, and I don't even play one on tv.

 

[martha1014]

These symptoms definitely sound like too much nicotine. I have had them when first adjusting to my nicotine level.

Of course by all means continue seeing a doctor especially for the hypertension.

Good luck.

 

[Brewster 59]

These symptoms definitely sound like too much nicotine. I have had them when first adjusting to my nicotine level.

Of course by all means continue seeing a doctor especially for the hypertension.

Good luck.

thats what it sounds like to me too but if that is the case why would smoking an anlog relieve the symptoms? I had a lot of those symptoms when I first starting vaping ,they stopped after two days vaping. I just thought my nic level was to high and developed a tolerance to the higher level after a couple of days.

 

[frankie1]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I originally thought nic OD as well, but a cigarette should make that worse. These episodes occur when I have further cut nic from usual. I vape 6 mg liquid around 1 - 1.5 ml per day at most and smoke 5-6 cigs. It is when I cut the cigs but vape in the normal manner that I have problems. These also occur sporadically, not daily or even weekly. These levels are down from 1.5/2 PAD smoke habit. Usually at bedtime, which is a few hours after I have switched to virtually 0 nic liquid.

I wonder if some of the problems we have thought were nic OD might indeed be symptoms of withdrawal from cigarettes. Maybe if we can figure out my problems (since docs just seem to pooh pooh PVs) it might help others. At least that is my hope!

 

[WebJunkie]

In that case I would suggest trying some PG only liquids. I'm sure others will be able to recommend a source.

 

[Coffee Addict]

Something in cigarettes might be missing now.
Just think......the smoking cessation drug ZYBAN is just wellbutrin renamed.
Wellbutrin is an anti-depressent drug. They are both the same drug.

I too, am not a doctor, but still always wondered why they would prescribe anti-depressents to quit smoking.

Think about it.

 

[WebJunkie]

Something in cigarettes might be missing now.
Just think......the smoking cessation drug ZYBAN is just wellbutrin renamed.
Wellbutrin is an anti-depressent drug. They are both the same drug.

I too, am not a doctor, but still always wondered why they would prescribe anti-depressents to quit smoking.

Think about it.

My theory on that is happier people tend not to smoke.

They initially found people on welbutrin tended to stop smoking, and thus investigated. I was actually part of the clinical trials but had to move after the first few weeks and messed up timing and such.

Have tried it since and just missed smoking so much.

With vaping, I don't miss it. Yay.

Side note: Capella's French Toast likes to infect your attys. Or at least mine. Just a note. I'm a little sick of french toast at this point, haha.

 

[four2109]

Hi Frankie,
Why are you keeping your nicotine so low? I know this is in opposition to other responses, but I read the MAOI thread too. I had been diluting my 9/6mg juice to near nothing thinking maybe I would wean off of it. I got incredibly irritated, resting heart rate laying in bed at 120... anxiety. Yes, that's scary. I had some issues with heart rate before I found e-cigs and made a Dr appt then. Had a stress test... bla bla bla that's a good heart. I don't really know how my arteries are, but he said my heart is good.
Anyway, after reading the MAOI thread I upped my nicotine to 18/12 and bought some Passion Flower. Immediate relief. I posted in that thread but I don't know if you saw it. If the MAOI effect allows the build up of dopamine and seratonin, and you take that away and the nicotine that stimulates the release of them, I think it's a double whammy!
I switched from tobacco on 16/18mg, (whatever Npro high carts are) and didn't miss it at all, but I don't think I can give up nicotine yet... and maybe never...

 

[frankie1]

Hi Frankie,
Why are you keeping your nicotine so low? I know this is in opposition to other responses, but I read the MAOI thread too. I had been diluting my 9/6mg juice to near nothing thinking maybe I would wean off of it. I got incredibly irritated, resting heart rate laying in bed at 120... anxiety. Yes, that's scary. I had some issues with heart rate before I found e-cigs and made a Dr appt then. Had a stress test... bla bla bla that's a good heart. I don't really know how my arteries are, but he said my heart is good.
Anyway, after reading the MAOI thread I upped my nicotine to 18/12 and bought some Passion Flower. Immediate relief. I posted in that thread but I don't know if you saw it. If the MAOI effect allows the build up of dopamine and seratonin, and you take that away and the nicotine that stimulates the release of them, I think it's a double whammy!
I switched from tobacco on 16/18mg, (whatever Npro high carts are) and didn't miss it at all, but I don't think I can give up nicotine yet... and maybe never...

Well, my thoughts were that I might be getting too much nic. Now I am wondering if that was correct. I so wish someone with medical training would help to solve my problem. After the heart tests, I intend to try something else, but am a bit nervous until I know for sure no heart problems. Of course, 2 EKGs have shown nothing wrong. Heart monitor company never seems to see anything emergent when I have one of these episodes. I just transmit and they say OK. They should be telling me to call 911 if they see a problem.

Until the tests, I am just going to do the best I can, hopefully not have a heart attack or stroke, and then back up and punt after the tests...which I will find out results the day before Thanksgiving. On second thought, maybe I should just up the nic, stop smoking and if that throws me into a spasm...well,, I do have the monitor!8-o

 

[frankie1]

Anxiety may be the answer. I don't know anything about panic attacks, but when this happens, I am not scared or upset until I feel an episode coming on. I have also reduced caffeine intake and started a woman's vitamin regimine from GNC which includes a mood stablizer.

 

[telsie]

My first thought would be too much nicotine, but since it's not that (and you've so far found nothing medically wrong), it really does sound like anxiety. An anxiety attack feels like you just chugged a pot of strong coffee and if you go through your list of symptoms, you've pretty well nailed it.

Anxiety attacks can happen for no apparent reason, but since you've been cutting back on analogs, that's the likely culprit. Upping your nicotine will probably help, but until your body adjusts to the lack of whatever else it is in analogs that some of us seem to be dependent on, you might find the problem recurring at times.

 

[aschmidy]

Frankie1, I'm not a dr or anything of the sort. Just a 50 year old female myself. I was wondering if the doctors checked your thyroid? It's a pretty typical condition for women our age, but a lot of doctors miss that one. I had a lot of those symptoms when my thyroid went whacky on me, very unpleasant. (I still hate to be cold, and I live in Wisconsin!) I have found that when you are a smoker, doctors look for the 'smoker problems' and sometimes miss the common ones.
I would switch to VG also, just because PG reactions can act a lot like this, too. You can always add PG again later, if you get things figured out.
Hang in there, I''m wishing you the best!

 

[telsie]

Anxiety may be the answer. I don't know anything about panic attacks, but when this happens, I am not scared or upset until I feel an episode coming on. I have also reduced caffeine intake and started a woman's vitamin regimine from GNC which includes a mood stablizer.

Panic attacks aren't really what people think. It's not like you panic and then have all these heart-racing, thinking-you're-going-to-die kind of symptoms. You start having the symptoms for no apparent reason, which then causes panic, which then precipitates... more symptoms!

What you said about not feeling scared or upset until you feel another episode coming on is exactly how "anticipatory anxiety" works. For example, if you have an anxiety attack while driving (an anxiety attack is like a milder panic attack, by the way), you might think about it the next time you're getting in the car and feel a bit uneasy. And if it happens to occur again, you might start to fear having an anxiety attack any time you have to drive somewhere. And that can lead to having an anxiety attack at the very thought of having to drive somewhere.

 

[frankie1]

aschmidy: Yeah, my doc checks thyroid with routine blood work. I had one in June and Sept. Everything was normal in Sept. Thyroid was fine in June, Hemoglobin was high! due, of course, to smoking. I agree, they hear smoker, and a lot of things get overlooked.

telsie: That makes a lot of sense! I thought panic attacks were way more pronounced than what I have been experiencing, but last night was way worse than usual and more prolonged. Then when I try to sleep, any little discomfort wakes me...so no sleep!! Which probably makes things worse also!

42109: I went back and checked your post on the MAOI thread. Really glad that I did because I ended up re-reading the entire discussion. One poster, Kent I think, suggested that I wean myself more gradually off cigarettes because of the antidepressent effect. He, like you, also suggested that I might up my nic intake!

 

[frankie1]

I want to thank everyone for your help on this thread! You guys may not be doctors, but your advice and support has meant a LOT to me.....I am more convinced than ever that I can get through this, it may just take me a little longer than others! It is so wonderful to have a conversation with others who are interested and informed in this brave new experience. My family listens, but they don't really get involved in the whole vaping scence, so they are not informed. Thanks again!

 

[frankie1]

telsie: I love your avatar!

Started hearing heartbeat in ears this morning. I did some deep breathing and focused on relaxing. I don't know if it helped, but no "episode"! Maybe it is anxiety and that is why the docs seem to be brushing me off. If that is the case, it kind of sucks. I have always been a big coward, but I have never had panic attacks and, if panic attacks are my problem, they are scary...and they make you SICK!

 

[Mentholgirl]

I had panic attacks for many years and had to take medicine to control them, and your symptoms really do sound like panic. I too would hear my heart in my ears, my heart would seem to beat abnormally and a few times it was beating so fast I went to the emergency room and they too thought it was too fast. But after being hooked up nothing was wrong. I went to emergency room after emergency room, with many thinking maybe it was a heart attack, giving me oxygen, the whole nine yards. But nothing was ever wrong with my heart. It was just beating too fast and at times irregularly. Finally 1 emergency trip, a doctor suggested, I probably had panic attacks, he gave me anti-anxiety meds and it stopped immediately. That is when I knew it was not my heart it was panic attacks. It was hard to accept something wasn't wrong with me as it really feels like your having heart problems and its very scary. Many times I thought I was going to die as I layed in bed.. Its a terrifying feeling. When you said the heart in the ears it really brought me back.

I suggest mentioning to your doctor the posibblity of Panic.

After 8 years being medicated. I no longer need meds, I weened myself off of them and no longer have panic attacks, only very rarely now.

I would think after so many years smoking that perhaps the drastic reduction in nicotine is sparking the anxiety and causing the panic attacks. I know when I tried to quit cold turkey I was a mess. You may simply try uping your nicotine mg's.

Hope this helps some

 

[sstambo]

I feel for you Frankie. I used to get panic/anxiety attacks everyday. Mostly I would get the attacks in the morning on my way to work. They were so horrible! Thought I was going to die. I hardly get them anymore. I ended up quitting my job over them. Now hubby & I are self employed and I am alot better.

Since I started vaping a month ago I have a few other symptoms. I feel tired & foggy alot. Had trouble sleeping the first 2 weeks. I did quit analogs after 2 weeks. I started vaping with 24mg & I am still using 24mg. I am planning on cutting down the nic when the tiredness & fogginess abates. I did make some diy juice that is lower nic to vape when I feel like chain vaping.

Question: When you have an analog-Do you feel any of the dizziness or cig buzz that you used to get after not having a cigarette for a really long time?

I think your nic level might be to low. I understand & would also be leary about upping the level though especially if your experiencing panic/anxiety attacks.

I really hope you can figure it out. Please let us know.