Wizard Labs is still down!! Any other suggestions?

[wolcen]

Actually - I should have re-read the following before posting. You be the judge. I would guess nicotine constitutes a fairly expensive part of the final product.

Complying with the Made in USA Standard | BCP Business Center

 

[JUDGMENT AFFIRMED]

This sort of thing comes up over and over again: the NIC can come from China, India, the moon, it doesn't matter a bit: the fact that they mix the nic into PG/VG in the USA means they can say it's "made in USA". This is allowed by the labeling laws surrounding the claim.

This is the same thing dozens and dozens of nic juice suppliers do. If they mixed the ingredients in the USA, it's made in the USA even if every ingredient came from outside the USA. It's all allowed as it is being "primarily assembled" in the USA...from foreign parts.

Neat, huh?

ETA: You have to look for an expressed claim that it is created from nicotine sourced from the USA. The moral of the story is that "Made in the USA" is simply too vague to mean what you (and most people) read it to mean.

Yes Wolcen, I understand that, but I don't see that said "made in the usa" with the nic. Other than you know, rts

 

[JUDGMENT AFFIRMED]

Hey Thanks again Wolcen, ill read it as soon as i can

 

[Renolizzie]

It might be the most expensive part but the PG and VG would be the greater amount, I'm guessing The law was sort of complicated. It is possible that know one has reported this issue to the appropriate department. I know I don't want to go there.

It is a buyer be aware world here in the US. As the primary shopper, I have honed my label reading skills. You read the big writing on the front of the package but all is not what it seems when you read the fine print. How many sugar free items have sugar or fructose in them - a bunch. Fragrance free still has fragrance listed on the ingredients? Doesn't surprise me!

 

[wolcen]

Yes Wolcen, I understand that, but I don't see that said "made in the usa" with the nic. Other than you know, rts

A quick google landed me at 59ml (2oz) 100mg/ml Unflavored Nicotine Liquid where at the very end of the description it says Made in the USA.

 

[JUDGMENT AFFIRMED]

A quick google landed me at 59ml (2oz) 100mg/ml Unflavored Nicotine Liquid where at the very end of the description it says Made in the USA.

Yes, thats it.
I read your link. pretty hard to say "made in the usa" and not get in big trouble if it wasn't true.
"For a product to be called Made in the USA, the product must be "all or virtually all" Made in the USA. "All or virtually all" means, that ALL significant parts and processing that goes into the product MUST be of U.S. origin. That is, the product should contain NO-or Negligible- foreiggn content."
Says much more , but that quote tells the story. And i can't type

 

[Baums]

See this crap frustrates me.... I will tell you where I won't be ordering from. ecigexpress. Tell ya what I think this place STINKS. Waited on the phone 25 mins only to get hung up on. Sent email. No response. Got on with the online rep. Check this crap out:

System 8:57:15 PM
System is getting started. [2/28/2013 8:57:14 PM]

A representative will be connected, please be patient.


We are still trying to connect you, please be patient. If you don"t want to wait please leave a message: Leave message. Thank you!

Ivan enters the chatroom.


Ivan 8:57:45 PM
Hello Greg, my name is Ivan, I will be happy to help you.
Greg 8:58:30 PM
did you get my question?
Ivan 8:58:55 PM
We order our nicotine from a company in the United States.
Greg 8:59:29 PM
could you tell me what company. id like to order some from you but am pretty particular about it
Ivan 9:00:25 PM
I am sorry, we can't give that information out.
Greg 9:00:38 PM
lol seriously?

why is that?


How can you not tell a customer who is inhaling something where it comes from?

I am not trying to fight here, rather just doing research on what i am inhaling. Thats fair isn't it?


System 9:02:45 PM
The representative has left the conversation. If you have further questions please leave a message: Leave message. Thank you!

 

[JUDGMENT AFFIRMED]

That was my stupid comment, It was a bad joke, though . . not intended to ignite any kind of controversy.

I rather liked the comment and joke. Maybe I shouldn't have ......but I find that funny, now that I figured it out.

 

[Gr8Scott]

See this crap frustrates me.... I will tell you where I won't be ordering from. ecigexpress. Tell ya what I think this place STINKS. Waited on the phone 25 mins only to get hung up on. Sent email. No response. Got on with the online rep. Check this crap out:

System 8:57:15 PM
System is getting started. [2/28/2013 8:57:14 PM]

A representative will be connected, please be patient.


We are still trying to connect you, please be patient. If you don"t want to wait please leave a message: Leave message. Thank you!

Ivan enters the chatroom.


Ivan 8:57:45 PM
Hello Greg, my name is Ivan, I will be happy to help you.
Greg 8:58:30 PM
did you get my question?
Ivan 8:58:55 PM
We order our nicotine from a company in the United States.
Greg 8:59:29 PM
could you tell me what company. id like to order some from you but am pretty particular about it
Ivan 9:00:25 PM
I am sorry, we can't give that information out.
Greg 9:00:38 PM
lol seriously?

why is that?


How can you not tell a customer who is inhaling something where it comes from?

I am not trying to fight here, rather just doing research on what i am inhaling. Thats fair isn't it?


System 9:02:45 PM
The representative has left the conversation. If you have further questions please leave a message: Leave message. Thank you!

Thanks for posting this info. Go to a restaurant and ask what's in the special. Could you imagine getting that type of bull$#!+ response?

When are people going to realize that all this deniability crap just makes a bad situation worse? Sheeesh. Maybe they feel like the can afford to lose a customer but are too stupid to realize the ripple effect that will have cost them many customers.

Your totally correct in that inquiry.

Well knowledge is power.

 

[corruption42]

Thanks for posting this info. Go to a restaurant and ask what's in the special. Could you imagine getting that type of bull$#!+ response?

When are people going to realize that all this deniability crap just makes a bad situation worse? Sheeesh. Maybe they feel like the can afford to lose a customer but are too stupid to realize the ripple effect that will have cost them many customers.

Your totally correct in that inquiry.

Well knowledge is power.

Its actually much simpler than that. Look at it from a business perspective -- they give up their source to some random who asks, they're giving up their lifeline. Most businesses tend to keep partnerships like that a bit more quiet, just because they don't want competition cluing in on where it comes from. Does that mean its US made, or foreign made? I don't know, and frankly it doesn't really make that big of a difference -- they're not going to give up the central core of their business to some random who asks. How do they know you're not a competitor looking for somewhere new to source from, or a new startup looking to run them out of business? Expecting any less than what he got from the questions asked, is expecting too much IMO.

I agree to a point with confirming nation of origin -- and frankly, asking 'please let me know the nation of origin of your nicotine. I have no desire for the actual lab information, just a centralized origin of the base product' would likely get you a different response than the one you elicited. Will it be truthful? Quite possibly not -- but thats a much more reasonable question to ask someone.

Seriously -- if you ran a firm selling restaurant goods to small businesses and individuals alike, and someone started asking who is the source of your wholesale goods, are you going to come running to reveal that information? I highly doubt it. It is still a business world, after all.

 

[Baums]

I bet you buy in to a lot of conspiracy theories huh. If you can accept putting something into your body that you have no clue where it's from, by all means carry on. I happen to care and think my questions were more than fair. Wholesale wouldn't sell to an individual, let alone do I have that dough. Another business? You don't think a start up business could easily find info on what labs make nic in the USA? Just seems flimsy and then a duscinnect? Either way poorly handled.

 

[corruption42]

I bet you buy in to a lot of conspiracy theories huh. If you can accept putting something into your body that you have no clue where it's from, by all means carry on. I happen to care and think my questions were more than fair. Wholesale wouldn't sell to an individual, let alone do I have that dough. Another business? You don't think a start up business could easily find info on what labs make nic in the USA? Just seems flimsy and then a duscinnect? Either way poorly handled.

If you say so.

No, I'm not a conspiracy nut, and I'm all for regulation to be perfectly frank if it means a bit more recognition of actual sources for consumers. But this is an unregulated market growing hand over fist, and I recognize that SOME RANDOM DUDE ON THE INTERNET contacting a company and saying "tell me your source NAO" comes across as someone who is trying to weasel details -- they know absolutely nothing of you, and they probably will make up any lost business from you either way.

I never said I don't want to know where it comes from; don't put words in my mouth. I was speaking from a BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE... from a business that is in a cut-throat, fast growing market. They're afraid of losing any market share they have -- and why would they not be? Who the hell are you to come and start demanding you know EXACTLY who their sources are? If you can't see that the presentation of your questions was the problem, you're missing the bigger picture.

Are you sure you aren't the tinfoil hat wearer?

 

[corruption42]

Also -- go try to find the labs in the US that are producing nicotine. I dare you. Theres threads of people who've been trying to figure this out for a year or 2 now at minimum -- cuz they can't confirm from any of the sources. Thats whether they're talking to vendors, or directly to labs. What makes you so special that all the sudden that data is going to be revealed to you?

If you can't understand why someone would do something from a business perspective -- whether you agree with it or not -- you're not looking at it from all sides.

 

[MDV39]

why is it so important to have nic made in the USA? I didn't know we still made things besides provaris and bad laws.

 

[Baums]

Lol when did I claim to be special? If you're so smart about business you should know there are ways to get things done. Money talks. I didn't say the average joe here could google search and find the labs. I run my own business and am well versed in business practice. It's a wonder anyone can provide a source for us since its SO secretive. I see your point, and I certainly don't discount it, but I just think it could have been handled better. Maybe it was the overall experience with them.

 

[Baums]

why is it so important to have nic made in the USA? I didn't know we still made things besides provaris and bad laws.

I actually wasn't even implying that. Although I do like supporting our economy when I can, that wasn't really what I was getting at with my question. I really was just trying to gather info since I an new at this. I hadn't heard a lot about them. More WL and RTS who are both down.

 

[corruption42]

Lol when did I claim to be special? If you're so smart about business you should know there are ways to get things done. Money talks. I didn't say the average joe here could google search and find the labs. I run my own business and am well versed in business practice. It's a wonder anyone can provide a source for us since its SO secretive. I see your point, and I certainly don't discount it, but I just think it could have been handled better. Maybe it was the overall experience with them.

Well if you see my point, you can certainly say so without leading back to ad hominem attacks and strawman arguments. Money talks; and you're just a customer who's demanding to know where they get the main source of their money. If you can't understand how, in an unregulated market, that means "up yours we're not telling" when you ask the way you do, maybe you're not the shrewd businessman you think you are.

See, ad hominems can be fun!

 

[Baums]

Talk about putting words in people's mouths. Anyhow, I'm doing juuuust fine in my business. Guess what, I treat each and every person well. So excuse rudeness. I don't. I look forward to still being in business when they're not with the regulations coming. Apologies to you for trying to gather information from them. It quite obviously got your panties in a bunch.

 

[Baums]

Lets just leave it at that. I don't have the time, nor the energy to argue with someone over such petty things. Happy vaping.

 

[corruption42]

Talk about putting words in people's mouths. Anyhow, I'm doing juuuust fine in my business. Guess what, I treat each and every person well. So excuse rudeness. I don't. I look forward to still being in business when they're not with the regulations coming. Apologies to you for trying to gather information from them. It quite obviously got your panties in a bunch.

More (s)ad hominem! It sure is funny how everyone on the internet is "a successful business owner".

Your shrewd attitude is the only thing I took issue with; quit putting words in my mouth and try comprehension. I only responded in kind to what you gave back to me when I made a focus-neutral comment to try to help some people understand why you are being refused the information you seek. You can ask, beg, push, yell, kick, scream for information from vendors however you choose -- I frankly could give 2 diaper-loads less what you choose to do. However, when someone tries to join in a conversation and you start throwing out accusations of "conspiracy theorist" and "ignorance" when you are the one showing such signs, I take issue.

Like or dislike my comments; its why you will NOT find the answers your seeking. Not opinion here, simply fact.

Are you capable of anything but personal attacks, or do you have any valid points?