Workplace bans smoking and vaping on property

[englishmick]

On the vaping indoors topic, I'm yet to hear a good reason to disallow, especially in designated areas. If firmly disallowed, I would think it would be "because we said so" and rather cut to the chase in this thread's discussion with what I believe makes most sense and is doable. But, in reality, I believe most companies executive staff would at least pretend to be open to consideration that their policy is perhaps an extreme position that needs to either be made more solid or is open to change. My challenge, assuming it is allowed and they appear open, would be based on scientific data, reasoning and what other things the company does allow that people are not paid to do (i.e. chit chat), which I can find annoying, sometimes, at a job when I'm busy doing work. As noted on this thread, I'm yet to work for a employer or even hear of one where employees never ever engaged in something they were not paid to do (i.e. chit chat). FWIW, since age 16, I've always left a job on my own terms.

I think there's a lot of good reasons why management would at least consider it. How many hours a day are wasted on that chit-chat, not to mention going outside once an hour. A lot of employers allow access to the internet. They know people can do it anyway on their cell phone when nobody is watching, and it keeps us happy. We just have to convince them vaping isn't the same as smoking. That's not a big hill to climb. Ask for a vaping room as a starter. If they can see it would increase productivity and not annoy too many other people, why not. People have to ask though and keep the subject on the table, or nothing will ever happen.

Sooner or later some company is going to do it, and establish a precedent. Maybe a company with a vaping CEO.

 

[Goodrat]

What about people wearing cologne or scented deodorants? I mean, have they tested all perfumes to make sure there is no health risk in the work place?

 

[Goodrat]

Also, consider the vaper walking out side for 2 minutes for a few tokes, compared to an analog smoker who has to light up and smoke a whole cigarette who may be out there for maybe 7 minutes.
Also compare that to a person who doesn't wake up early enough to get a quick breakfast and use the toilet at home and instead spends more time at work preparing a break time breakfast and some time during the day spending 20 minutes in the bathroom stall.
Or ban eating too big a lunch because those people need stall time too by 3pm.

 

[DC2]

For the record I think its pretty bunk for employers to lump vaping together with smoking.

"Bunk" is far too kind a word for this kind of crap.

But there are so many things to blame for this developing situation that it is hard to know where to start...
--Decades of brainwashing on the trumped-up dangers of second-hand smoke
--Years of lying by the powers that want to squash vaping by tying it as directly to "smoke" as possible
--The complicit actions of the mainstream media in furthering this agenda for whatever reason
--The ignorance, greed, or lack of conscious by politicians who help further this agenda through legislation

We stand on an island of truth.
But the ocean of crap continues to try and drown us.

 

[DC2]

What about people wearing cologne or scented deodorants? I mean, have they tested all perfumes to make sure there is no health risk in the work place?

Scented candles and air fresheners are almost certainly FAR worse than what we exhale.
Just putting that out there for purposes of discussion.

 

[KGB7]

Have they tested all the office chairs so i dont gain 200lbs from sitting 8 hours a day??

 

[towelie]

I would gather info first. Probably lots of it, but I wouldn't walk in blindly and say something off the cuff. I'd be prepared for a dispute. I'd feel out other staff to see if I have supporters or if I need to go it alone.

If I was instead met with a "because we said so," then I would likely proceed in one of two ways. 1 - gathering further info, on more than one issue, hoping to make a stronger case, being patient, doing my job, making the best of it. Or 2 - looking for places where I know I can get away with vaping while I do my job good enough and job hunt elsewhere. On my last day there, I'd (maybe) let them know all the places I enjoyed vaping in their establishment, while no one was the wiser.

In my experience, companies will at least give off appearance that they are reasonable, open to discussion on things they know are open ended. The "because we said so" thing would be a deal breaker for me, but I would milk the cow out of respect (for myself) or out of spite toward them, and would depend on a bunch of factors if I went there. I've usually not had issues talking with head honcho of a place if I truly desired to do that, and at that level, change in policy can occur very quickly.

On the vaping indoors topic, I'm yet to hear a good reason to disallow, especially in designated areas. If firmly disallowed, I would think it would be "because we said so" and rather cut to the chase in this thread's discussion with what I believe makes most sense and is doable. But, in reality, I believe most companies executive staff would at least pretend to be open to consideration that their policy is perhaps an extreme position that needs to either be made more solid or is open to change. My challenge, assuming it is allowed and they appear open, would be based on scientific data, reasoning and what other things the company does allow that people are not paid to do (i.e. chit chat), which I can find annoying, sometimes, at a job when I'm busy doing work. As noted on this thread, I'm yet to work for a employer or even hear of one where employees never ever engaged in something they were not paid to do (i.e. chit chat). FWIW, since age 16, I've always left a job on my own terms.

That's perfectly reasonable. I reckon its all about perspective. My perspective is from "Equal Opportunity Employer" type establishments which I find there is really no wiggle room for any policies at all. If you appeal to management they have to appeal to upper management who have to appeal to District Super's who have to appeal to area Super's who have to appeal to.........ya know? Always ends up "because that's the rule" imho.

Once in a blue moon one of these EOE's will do the right thing. I remember about 17 years ago this company I worked for built a smoking room with exhaust fans rather than just saying "no smoking on site". The negative pressure was so high you could smoke with the door open and none would escape. Pretty cool, kinda kills 30 birds with one stone that one. I find humor in irony. Any of these establishments I have ever worked for that have a no employee on site smoking policy always have ashtrays at the door for customers.

"Bunk" is far too kind a word for this kind of crap.

But there are so many things to blame for this developing situation that it is hard to know where to start...
--Decades of brainwashing on the trumped-up dangers of second-hand smoke
--Years of lying by the powers that want to squash vaping by tying it as directly to "smoke" as possible
--The complicit actions of the mainstream media in furthering this agenda for whatever reason
--The ignorance, greed, or lack of conscious by politicians who help further this agenda through legislation

We stand on an island of truth.
But the ocean of crap continues to try and drown us.

Haha I'm surprised I'm allowed to even say bunk around here. Its a pretty clean place, I can dig it.

 

[DaveP]

I've always had an outside job where I was a technical type. No smoking in company cars was instituted Jan 1 of the year I retired in March, so I didn't have to put up with the no smoking rhetoric, although smoking was prohibited in every account I visited. I wish I had been vaping during that time. It would have been interesting to experience stealth vaping in a computer room. I'd have been caught and reprimanded in short order.

I used to go out to the break area and smoke a couple every two hours. It was nice being free to move around at will. I would have vaped the same way as I smoked, but probably would have sneaked a few hits in the parts room from time to time.

 

[tj99959]

None of the crap reasons make any difference. The owner OWNS the place! If you don't like the owners rules, you are free to just move along & find employment elsewhere. end of story


I'll be blunt about it, I owned a business for many years, and I didn't care if you liked my rules or not, they were still the rules if you wanted to work for me.

 

[ruet]

Scented candles and air fresheners are almost certainly FAR worse than what we exhale.
Just putting that out there for purposes of discussion.

The worst offenders are the units with a heating element that act much like a PV without the visible vapor. While the carriers may be the same as what's in the e-liquid you and I vape; the aromatics are most certainly synthetic and mostly an unknown quantity. Most of them don't even list their ingredients. As far as the OP goes. My take on this is and always has been that if they allow you to drink liquids with a straw at your place of employment then they haven't a leg to stand on with regards to vaping. As long as no visible vapor is exhaled.

 

[OlderNDirt]

Vaping? Smoking? Air fresheners? It really doesn't matter. It all starts the same way.

The whole smoking issue started with some busybody somewhere that needed something else to ..... about at the workplace. The same one that spent worktime complaining that Jane always comes in late or leaves early, that Fred takes longer lunch breaks, as well as other workplace activity that is none of their business in the first place given their entry level position. Then they pick up an ally, then another, and before you know it, a small group bands together to pressure the boss. Never mind these are the same busybodies that get off work and hit the smokey bar, bowling alley, or go home to a smoking spouse. The boss then tires of the continued disruption and his/her easiest solution is to ban smoking. And the busybodies go on spending their time complaining about something else, remaining the least efficient producers is said company. The government then merely reacted to the "overwhelming evidence" of the majority desire to eliminate smoking since most businesses were making their statements by banning smoking. All thanks to a few busybodies.

I've worked in a few large and small companies during this time and, believe me, it holds pretty true. One example: A potential hire comes in twice for interviews, both times walking right by my office door. She gets the job (two doors down and across the hall btw) and by the third day says loudly "Had I known this company allowed smoking, I wouldn't have taken the job!" Seriously? How did you not notice if it was so overwhelming? But I digress.

We know where that took us with the smoking issue. Why would vaping be any different? Yes, we can talk about the difference in the two habits and how it does/does not affect others, but as long as this vocal minority continues we will continue to have to put up with their idiocy.

Vape on while you got 'em and can afford 'em.

Now I will hate myself for hitting "enter", but oh well.

Edit: Spelling corrections.

 

[DrMA]

None of the crap reasons make any difference. The owner OWNS the place! If you don't like the owners rules, you are free to just move along & find employment elsewhere. end of story


I'll be blunt about it, I owned a business for many years, and I didn't care if you liked my rules or not, they were still the rules if you wanted to work for me.

Oh yeah? Did you impose arbitrary discriminatory rules often?

 

[Valroize]

I recently got called back to a good-paying, decent job and was offered a long-term position, which I accepted.

The next day, I found out that they are banning smoking AND vaping on the entire premises, starting 2015.

I'm planning on just toughing it out for 10 hour shifts, and vaping while off work. I am currently at 6mg and ~75/25 vg/pg. I don't even wanna go through the trouble of leaving the premises or stealth vaping... just isnt sounding like a hendonistic approach...
Just another example of big business trying to make/save money....

Im not gonna try to fight it....

...This will just influence me to leave this company, sooner than expected with these type of rules.....

Tell your boss to shoot himself in the face !

Against smoking analogs.. I can comprehend.

Against VAPING.. what the Hell.. How come a rich boss be too "Ignorant" about what is there to BAN about vaping... ~SIGH~ just like Taiwan ! they freakin' generalizing and can't differentiate between Vaping and Smoking... Pathetic !

Another example of We ARE Clean People and YOU (Smoker/ Vaper) ARE DIRTY people syndrome !

 

[built4feel]

Tell your boss to shoot himself in the face !

Against smoking analogs.. I can comprehend.

Against VAPING.. what the Hell.. How come a rich boss be too "Ignorant" about what is there to BAN about vaping... ~SIGH~ just like Taiwan ! they freakin' generalizing and can't differentiate between Vaping and Smoking... Pathetic !

Another example of We ARE Clean People and YOU (Smoker/ Vaper) ARE DIRTY people syndrome !

....I am not far up enough to have the vocal chords that would be recognized by the man behind the curtain....

As an update, having been back for a week now:

I've been stealth vaping, with my first ecig.... a Halo Triton! I am glad I kept at least one of these as a backup... my other rigs are way too powerful to stealth vape....

Right after I started this thread, I lowered my nicotine a couple of mg's...- by diluting with straight VG....

....I was planning on going in to work and not vaping at all or using any other nicotine products...

....but I knew a little stealth vape would relax me and make my night go by faster, AND I WOULD BE MORE ALERT / HAPPY / A BETTER WORKER.

...so I loaded up some PG dominant 12mg in my halo VV battery / triton clearomizer, and I causally stealth vaped on breaks and at lunch.


...I can't say for sure, but Im pretty sure I was not alone in the bathroom... I found where the very few vapers are hanging out if you can believe that... I didnt say anything, nor will I....but it seems like they are doing the same thing as me

The smokers are quite grumpy though.... they have to skip lunch, in order to walk through a maze and cattle shoots to get out to their car to drive of property and get back in 30 minutes...

I am glad I am a vaper, and although this rule is stupid, they aren't gonna stop me from vooping.

ETA:

technically, my first ecig was in 2011, but that didn't work for me

 

[built4feel]

I would like to see vaping be permitted in designated areas (outside) on breaks/lunch, but I really don't see any way for me to get the message across, without stepping outside my paygrade - - yes, its good paying, but I just went from being a wood chip on the ground, to a notch on the very bottom of the totem pole-- and there isnt just one location for the pole, there are many poles, that have a pyramid sitting on top- that is the man behind the curtain.

It states in the employee manual that I cannot disclose where I work, in this sort of debate.... so there you have it...

(I'd like to have vaping allowed, so that other smokers can switch-- not entirely so that I can have my preferred setup, which is not stealth, nor obnoxious)

Any suggestions??

 

[Valroize]

I would like to see vaping be permitted in designated areas (outside) on breaks/lunch, but I really don't see any way for me to get the message across, without stepping outside my paygrade - - yes, its good paying, but I just went from being a wood chip on the ground, to a notch on the very bottom of the totem pole-- and there isnt just one location for the pole, there are many poles, that have a pyramid sitting on top- that is the man behind the curtain.

It states in the employee manual that I cannot disclose where I work, in this sort of debate.... so there you have it...

(I'd like to have vaping allowed, so that other smokers can switch-- not entirely so that I can have my preferred setup, which is not stealth, nor obnoxious)

Any suggestions??

We are here bro, we FEEL you.. as i also stealth vape.. "right iINSIDE the office", (just a puff or 2) to get me goin' in the office.
~Sigh~ smoking is a nasty habit... so vapin' is a salvation to me. Hang in there bud !

FYI: How to STEALTH VAPING? Vape your E-Cig or MOD normally.. Then HOLD your breath 1 or 0.5 seconds then simply INHALE again (Normal AIR) small amount is OK. with Practice you CAN do it... WITHOUT any "Cloud".. coming OUT of your mouth as you exhale. Practice makes perfect.. you CAN still have that throat hit BTW and also taste your flavor as you exhale. Hope this Helps. A short explanation would be: Take a double inhale first from your E-Cig then another.. inhalation of just plain air... THEN exhale NORMALLY VIOLLA !!! stealth vaping !

 

[DC2]

Any suggestions??

The only way to stop or change these kinds of things is to change public perception.

That means educating every person you can.
And getting involved and doing what you can when you can.

Here are some ways to get involved...

CASAA - The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association
Become a CASAA Member

SFATA | Vapor Products Association
SFATA | Electronic Cigarette Association Membership Application

We Are The Vaping Militia
Become A Militia Member | The Vaping Militia

The American Vaping Association

 

[Chromag9]

I work for a big(ish) health insurance company. They've banned smoking and vaping anywhere on property including the parking lot. There is a small road right off property that people go to to get around the rule. Not only that I have to sign an affidavit every year stating that I use tobacco or some form of "tobacco product" and because of that they take $20 per paycheck as a penalty.

 

[caramel]

How about someone comes up with a liquid that doesn't make any clouds. I'd definitely buy some.