Hmmm.... so the FDA included Njoys carts in the study before they had entered the suit? Odd 
World News did more harm than good for E-Cigs
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Hmmm.... so the FDA included Njoys carts in the study before they had entered the suit? Odd
OR... they held the study back because the findings weren't that bad at first glance, tried to figure out how to twist it, and then when njoy sued added them on the fly?
I don't know. It's apparent that something is not right. Even the choices of carts to test were all over the board. They tested all of the njoy cartridge levels except for no-nicotine... but they tested the SE no-nicotine carts.
Is it possible they actually did more testing than they released to the public?
It's all so choppy it's kind of hard to think it's real.
*** These are all just crazy hypothetical questions which could lead to conspiracy theories... so please... take them with a grain of salt. Simply thinking out loud that's all. But if anyone else can fill in some holes... it could be an interesting discussion. ***
Good to have the timeline, Lacey, and I think Godshall's information at that time was accurate. Press conferences such as the FDA planned for May 5 are not thrown together overnight. There are many words to be written, and approved by higher-ups. Many "experts" to get on board. Video to create. Etc. The FDA planned a press conference and SE's suit stopped them.
My bet is FDA lawyers said don't do it and take a chance of prejudicing the case now before the court.
But FDA had confiscated samples from SE and NJoy (we knew Njoy was involved even before they joined the suit). So FDA tested some of those samples. But the case was still playing out. Is it still? FDA's lawyers must think it's over. All that remains is announcement of the ruling in favor of FDA, with lots of legal points on the whys and wherefors. Plus, some note, I'd think, of the implications of FDA control over tobacco in addition to drugs.
It makes sense to me. I wouldn't have expected the FDA to rush test results to the public a few days after being dragged into court by SE. And I wouldn't expect them to reveal test results until court pleadings are done, and only a decision remains. Now is that time. Now they release the results.
Could be wrong, but this is how I take the delay.
My bet is FDA lawyers said don't do it and take a chance of prejudicing the case now before the court.
But FDA had confiscated samples from SE and NJoy (we knew Njoy was involved even before they joined the suit). So FDA tested some of those samples. But the case was still playing out. Is it still? FDA's lawyers must think it's over. All that remains is announcement of the ruling in favor of FDA, with lots of legal points on the whys and wherefors. Plus, some note, I'd think, of the implications of FDA control over tobacco in addition to drugs.
It makes sense to me. I wouldn't have expected the FDA to rush test results to the public a few days after being dragged into court by SE. And I wouldn't expect them to reveal test results until court pleadings are done, and only a decision remains. Now is that time. Now they release the results.
Could be wrong, but this is how I take the delay.
The good thing is that the judge has requested another get together so it will be interesting to see what comes of that.
Indeed Lacey and TropicalBob - I would think there are more test results and data than what's been published thus far, and hopefully the full, entire range will be made public soon enough.
On the topic of news - I think this bears repeating from an earlier post -
While I will agree that bias is fairly obvious, it's more due to the sheer laziness than anything else.
We know, media picks up on stories and today more and more simply repeat What's Hot, from major news sources. And reporters and writers doing their research and background may simply grab quotes, get statements and write to meet deadline. There's good writing and reporting and there's bad. Add to that the "social media" and the internet and we see repeatedly that pieces can become the ubiquitous "source" of information when they are, in fact, not. Every person has to do their own due diligence, IMO.
On the topic of news - I think this bears repeating from an earlier post -
While I will agree that bias is fairly obvious, it's more due to the sheer laziness than anything else.
We know, media picks up on stories and today more and more simply repeat What's Hot, from major news sources. And reporters and writers doing their research and background may simply grab quotes, get statements and write to meet deadline. There's good writing and reporting and there's bad. Add to that the "social media" and the internet and we see repeatedly that pieces can become the ubiquitous "source" of information when they are, in fact, not. Every person has to do their own due diligence, IMO.
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Oh, so right Bob. It's even simpler than that. The FDA is now tainting the jury pool/school of thought. That's how the legal system really works.
was just rereading that leaked email thing and thought I'd repost it here for those that want a reread, after the recent events, and for those that never saw it
Outwest... did you notice in the email: "Action involves three largest distributors." If so, where are the test results for that distributor?
As someone who formally worked with the legal system, I agree. The FDA knew exactaly what they were doing in the timing of this "news".
Big Tobacco and Big pharma both have clout aka $$$$$$. Since Big T has been "chewed up and spit out" lately, you can bet that they are pointing fingers at e-cigs bigtime. Kinda like a tattletale of sorts. But you can bet Big T is trying nicotine extraction methods as I write this, to get thier "piece of the pie".
Until a formal study is done, testing and retesting, and testing again, they cannot just "ban" ecigs. A complete study needs to be done, with many juices, juice without a cart, just the cart material by itself, juice mixed with flavors, just the flavorings etc, etc. etc.
I never thought of vaping as a "healthy" alternative to smoking but a much better alternative. I know that since I totally quit analogs I feel like a new person. Tried the patch, inhaler, gum, candy and nose spray and failed. . Couldnt get rid of the tactile element. So, for me, vaping is an excellent alternative until someone, somewhere can find an easier way to help nicotine addiction.
I know many are worried about health issues. But I also worry about "fear mongers", as they are what the FDA wants to create. Just my HO.
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