Would it be best to get a business licence for manufacturing E-liquid before new regulations....

[Scottsevenn777]

On the chance that existing manufactures of e-liquid will not have to submit to the impossible costs of the FDA approval process as well as who knows what else if things go bad...
Should an enterprising DIY enthusiast get a business licence now ?
Or will the process be retroactive for all existing manufacturers ?
Maybe it would be a good idea to get legal now.
Just in Case.
Thought's on the matter....

 

[sultanofswag]

Why would a DIYer need a business license or FDA approval? To become a retail manufacturer, perhaps? Just wondering.

 

[JMarca]

Honestly if I had to make an investment right now in this industry e-liquid would be my absolute last choice.
No one knows what the FDA will do in the next say 1 - 5 years.
But I can almost guarantee they'll hit e-liquid first and they'll try to regulated the industry via this medium.
If I absolutely HAD to make this decision I guess I'd try to go legal and say a little prayer every night, but it's going to be rough and the commercial e-liquid side of things is almost guaranteed to take the brunt of the impact.

I'm sorry if this comes off as a debbie downer post, but just look at all the stuff they're trying to pass, it's not a good time to be a liquid manufacturer unless you have tons of capital and are ready to make critical and very costly changes to suit their demands.

 

[jensy]

I agree with JMARCA 1000%.

 

[BreSha6869]

To start a juice company properly today and start working towards potentially beiing certified to sell juice once the $h!t hits the fan would require bottling/washing/mixing equipment among many other costly items.

Not a chance I would invest potentially hundreds of thousands of $$$ to start a juice company and do it properly at this point. Might be very lucrative, but I wouldn't invest my life savings in it. Waaayyyy to big a gamble.

Smarter play would be to make your own brand/juice now and if it is successful and profitable, have one of the remaining large contract bottlers make your juice once regulation hits. That is starting to happen now.

 

[Racehorse]

To start a juice company properly today and start working towards potentially beiing certified to sell juice once the $h!t hits the fan would require bottling/washing/mixing equipment among many other costly items.

Almost all the eliquid companies now use places like California Vapor and Molecule Labs ... they make your recipe, or substititute one of theirs, bottle it, pack it, pallet it, and ship it out. They'll even name it for you. (maybe why so many eliquids taste the same these days)

This idea that some people still have of the little guy mixing and bottling stuff on a small stainless steel table adjacent to their house is very 2012.

Plus if you notice, everyone is "partnering" now......like Vaporflask partnering w/Wismec/Joyetech, etc.

If nobody has noticed "BIG VAPOR" is on the way. HOpe it will be different than Big Tobacco

 

[BreSha6869]

Almost all the eliquid companies now use places like California Vapor and Molecule Labs ... they make your recipe, or substititute one of theirs, bottle it, pack it, pallet it, and ship it out. They'll even name it for you. (maybe why so many eliquids taste the same these days)

This idea that some people still have of the little guy mixing and bottling stuff on a small stainless steel table adjacent to their house is very 2012.

Plus if you notice, everyone is "partnering" now......like Vapor shark w/Joyetech, etc.

If nobody has noticed "BIG VAPOR" is on the way. HOpe it will be different than Big Tobacco

Absolutely.

My point was that the vast majority of DIYers turned juice manufacturers in their basements will be out of business as soon as the industry is regulated. If they can't find a certified/tested manufacturer to make their juice, they go black market only or will be toast IMO.

 

[Racehorse]

My point was that the vast majority of DIYers turned juice manufacturers in their basements will be out of business as soon as the industry is regulated.

They are pretty much almost out of biz NOW.
Unless they are just trying to pay a small mortgage and buy some groceries.

Space Jam, etc, all who are using "fill n' bottle" turn-key 3rd party contract facilities like you mentioned, like calif vapor and molecule labs (there are actually hundreds of them now) that are able to bottle and pallet 10K orders per day have put them out of biz.

But of course, regulations, not market forces, will be "blamed" for putting them out of business.

Vaping isn't what it was in 2011. Vaping is venture capitalists and investment bankers sinking almost $100 million into companies like NJOY.......including some personal funds from Sean Parker of Napster/Facebook and Peter Theil of Paypal with their $15 million or so......

that one you only heard about because of the big names, but this is going on everywhere, you just don't hear about it because these companies aren't publically traded so it's not transparent.

anybody who thinks joe-little-guy can compete with that........yeah, there are a few "facebook" juice makers, but they aren't putting out quanities that are worth discussing

 

[sparkky1]

On the chance that existing manufactures of E-liquid will not have to submit to the impossible costs of the FDA approval process as well as who knows what else if things go bad...
Should an enterprising DIY enthusiast get a business licence now ?
Or will the process be retroactive for all existing manufacturers ?
Maybe it would be a good idea to get legal now.
Just in Case.
Thought's on the matter....

The day's of bathroom / basement brewers are going to be coming to a halt, and as far as the legality's, are you financially stable / insured to take on a 6 or 7 figure class action suit, what about a sales tax license, IRS audit, more than likely a tobacco license, ready for state inspections in your facility ? oh and yes you will still need to submit each recipe @ each nic level............

 

[Racehorse]

The day's of bathroom / basement brewers are going to be coming to a halt, and as far as the legality's, are you financially stable / insured to take on a 6 or 7 figure class action suit, what about a sales tax license, IRS audit, more than likely a tobacco license, ready for state inspections in your facility ? oh and yes you will still need to submit each recipe @ each nic level............

buy this would be true for ANY "hot new market item".....even if it weren't ecigs.

Yes, the added scrutiny of FDA, etc. doesn't help, but most of these businesses would be coming to a halt anyway. Remember how Walmart was able to put all the little guys out of biz when the economies went "global"? This is just typical market forces of capitalism. Goliath usually wins, because you can't even put together a real distribution network unless you have serious cash infusions into your company to upgrade to that. And which becomes VERY essential when you have to start competing with the big boys.

This has always been a problem for smaller companies trying to survive in *emerging markets* where multinational companies are rushing in to find new opportunities for growth......... who have DAUNTING resources at their disposal.......in any kind of free market economy.

There are ways to survive, but you have to be very nimble, and rely on differentiation and adaptability.

I read stuff here and I shake my head that people actually believe web site copy --- and if you do, you probably think that companies like Burt's Bees are actually run like the folksy tales on their website about some hippie couple in New England befriending insects and paying lip service to the greater good, etc. Its NOTHING LIKE THAT!!!

Burt's Bees is owned by the Chlorox Company.

Tom's of Maine is owned by Colgate Palmolive.

I could go on but I won't.

Some of you are crying crocodile tears over a progression of events that is totally natural in a free market capitalistic economy.

 

[sparkky1]

buy this would be true for ANY "hot new market item".....even if it weren't ecigs.

Yes, the added scrutiny of FDA, etc. doesn't help, but most of these businesses would be coming to a halt anyway. Remember how Walmart was able to put all the little guys out of biz when the economies went "global"? This is just typical market forces of capitalism. Goliath usually wins, because you can't even put together a real distribution network unless you have serious cash infusions into your company to upgrade to that. And which becomes VERY essential when you have to start competing with the big boys.

This has always been a problem for smaller companies trying to survive in *emerging markets* where multinational companies are rushing in to find new opportunities for growth......... who have DAUNTING resources at their disposal.......in any kind of free market economy.

There are ways to survive, but you have to be very nimble, and rely on differentiation and adaptability.

I read stuff here and I shake my head that people actually believe web site copy --- and if you do, you probably think that companies like Burt's Bees are actually run like the folksy tales on their website about some hippie couple in New England befriending insects and paying lip service to the greater good, etc. Its NOTHING LIKE THAT!!!

Burt's Bees is owned by the Chlorox Company.

Tom's of Maine is owned by Colgate Palmolive.

I could go on but I won't.

Some of you are crying crocodile tears over a progression of events that is totally natural in a free market capitalistic economy.

So your saying a 220.000.00 per recipe for each nic % start up fee is just "typical market forces of capitalism" for the *emerging markets* ? and basically you would need to be a Philip Morris International Inc majority shareholder to survive in the ejuice business ?

 

[AzPlumber]

The only thing a business license insures is you paying your share of taxes.

 

[Racehorse]

So your saying a 220.000.00 per recipe for each nic % start up fee is just "typical market forces of capitalism" for the *emerging markets* ? and basically you would need to be a Philip Morris International Inc majority shareholder to survive in the ejuice business ?

Other businesses have other costs and problems.

90% of businesses fail and the reasons are complex but there are stats.....if you begin a full scale study into small businesses that succeed and fail you will find the answers.

The reason most people choose to be "employees" instead of "entrepreneurs" is because its a constant battle to keep a business going in a changing global (and sometimes) regulatory environment.

Plenty of people succeed. Many fail.

The ones that fail are full of excuses of course.

 

[sparkky1]

I've been in business for myself since I was 18, I'm well versed on capitalism and failing economy, I was merely commenting to the op about his statement (Maybe it would be a good idea to get legal now) but thank you anyway's for your peremptory post.