WTA is the future

[kinabaloo]

There's a big gulf - about the size of the Atlantic - between saying WTA might help a little with mood stabilization in a minority of the population and saying that vaping nicotine-only juice will cause psychological problems. The first is no FUD, just logic. The second is no logic, just FUD.

Third and last time to give you the same reply - I never said 'will' I said 'could'. I'm talking about those for whom nicotine alone does not satiate and who actually need WTA because that is what they have been used to. For perhaps decades these people have been absorbing the full range of tobacco alkaloids. Do you really expect that one can stand in place? And not potentially cause imbalances?

This is not a small minority, it is likely more like half or more of smokers / former smokers.

Currently vaing nic-only works out for ~25%. With WTA im estimate this would rise to ~75%. It might not get higher because some people can't take the PG / VG.

You might think this a bold claim, but I have studied this area for over two years. In 5 or 10 years it will be commonly accepted wisdom. (In truth, it's 'old hat'.)

 

[ScottinSoCal]

Wow.

This discussion exposes the basic myth of smoking[...]

Agreed.

This discussion exposes the basic myth of smoking[...]

I have to disagree.

I guess consistency is overrated.

 

[ScottinSoCal]

You might think this a bold claim, but I have studied this area for over two years.

Oh my. Two whole years. Well, I yield to the master, then. Carry on.

 

[AaronY]

Oh my. Two whole years. Well, I yield to the master, then. Carry on.

Lol. If what you are doing works for you carry on That is great. I think what Kinabaloo has done to fight against the fear mongering of WTA is admirable. I don't think he was saying nic only ejuice is dangerous but that wta and nic combo has been along alot longer. Am I right? Anyways do what works for you. I just think WTA is going to be the future of ejuice.

 

[Stubby]

Vaping straight nicotine type e-liquid certainly can be a danger to some people. It can and does lead to depression and a host of other phycological problems for a percentage of smokers trying to make the switch. In the last 2 1/2 years I have watched it over and over again as someone struggles with there PV and falling into what one person called a "mental desert". An apt description. The day they start doing snus (or start smoking again) they are back on the road to being a normal functioning human.

I would also make an educated guess that there are many people over vaping with far to much nicotine to compensate for the lack of WTA. There are already early reports of some people vaping as little as 1/3 what they had been doing with straight nicotine with WTA. That has to be a very good thing for long term health. Need I even mention the people who have long since given up on PV's and gone back to cigarettes.

I am certainly not going to underestimate the impact WTA will have on the vaping community when it becomes more readily available. The potential to revolutionize the vaping world is very real.

Having said that I think Rothenbj is on the mark. Everyone has to find their own way as to what works for them. Even having a cigarette now and then (gasp) or a pipe or cigar. You'll never catch me in the anti-smoking fanatic crowd. What WTA does is give us a very valuable option that has been missing.

 

[MaxUT]

We need a "Don't Like" button.
.
.
.
.Or even better, a "...... Off!" button.

 

[ScottinSoCal]

There's a reason anecdotal evidence isn't accepted in research, and it has to do with the human drive to forget or dismiss things that don't fit into preconceptions.

Two years of research into a field like this is nothing - especially when the "research" is conducted by randomly reading posts in an online forum, as I strongly suspect kinabaloo's was. I know scientists who have studied a field for 30+ years who aren't as arrogantly sure of their facts as a couple of people in here. But what the hell, knock yourselves out. As long as I can still get my juice without the extra additives, what you choose to put in yours is your decision.

 

[MikenGA]

@Scott: Your posts above lead me to suspect you have a stronger ability to discern the difference between the "facts" you are referencing vs 'conjecture' during this open discussion. As a participant in this discussion, I don't recognize the "facts" you're citing, because they weren't presented as facts (except by you). If possible, it would be nicer if you can lighten up enough to understand what's really being stated AND explored within this thread. Otherwise, your comments thus far strike me as being negligible, because they are out of context.

 

[CaminoDiablo]

But what the hell, knock yourselves out. As long as I can still get my juice without the extra additives, what you choose to put in yours is your decision.

Thank you that's all anyone ever wanted. You do as you like and I will keep my WTA.

 

[stevejo]

I've been following this thread for a while now, and I am excited that there is another alternative out there for us vapers. I personally will probably never use it, as I have found several juices that completely satisfy me, to the point where I'm down to a mL or two a day vaping. No more cigarette cravings, no more anxiety, etc etc.

However, I am glad to see several people working to bring the WTA concept to market. I think any informed adult will realize that there is no guarantee of safety with our products. We are inhaling various things that have never been fully and truly studied for inhalation safety. However, whether just nic juice or WTA juice, and reasonable adult should be able to look at cigs and PVs and see the extremely wide gap in dangers involved.

In short, congrats to those working their .... off to bring WTAs to market, and congrats to those that have used them successfully. Any new product, whether it be a 6v PV, high nic juice, or WTAs, that allows someone to walk away form analogs, should be applauded and not torn apart.

If ya don't want it, don't buy it, pure and simple folks.

If ya do, enjoy the .... outta it.

 

[MikeE3]

But what the hell, knock yourselves out. As long as I can still get my juice without the extra additives, what you choose to put in yours is your decision.

Thanks for your permission.

 

[SybilsSister]

I keep following this thread as I have posted here once already about my chain vaping.

I knew I had to put down my pv as sitting in a chair and chain vaping 24/7 was becoming bizarre.I only stopped vaping to go to work (which the whole time all I thought about was vaping) only to go straight home to resume vaping.I spent tons of time reading this forum and came to the conclusion something was missing for me.DUH!!!

Katya suggested snus and at the end of my rope I tried it.Day 1 and 3 snus throughout the day that night when I got home I was pretty blaise with my pv,my knuckle fisted grip had relaxed somewhat with me just taking relaxing puffs instead of me trying to suck the LED light through the cartomizer.Day 2 and I had a morning snus.A few hours later while sitting in my chair I was hit by a physical jolt and I mean it was a jolt that knocked me sideways in my chair(like the first time I tried Halo juices).It was an out and out physical sensation and I literally felt something lift off my body.It was like a dark cloud had disappeared and I felt much lighter.I put down my pv,got up and started doing things around the house.I was definitely feeling alive and almost a little giddy.

Nation- are you listening Nation-Elvis has left the building and Sybilssister has put down her PV!!!!!!!

Sybil put on her party shoes and started tap dancing across my brain and yelling HHHOOOOTTTT DDDOOOOGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only thing I had done different was add WTA to the equation.I am now a firm believer in WTAs and can't wait to try the WTA e-liquid I have ordered.
SS.

 

[rothenbj]

Yup, for those of us with a need for something beside nicotine, WTA may be the answer in whatever form we receive it.

I had a snus this morning and had taken it out and was just fooling around at home. I got an unexpected call from an old friend that was close by that wanted to grab something to eat and catch up. I had to quickly gather myself and try to get there before him since I didn't know the name of the tavern and just gave him general direction. Half way there I realized that I left my snus can at home.

I figured no big deal, we'd probably have a quick meal, catch up and on our way. He decided to have a beer which I hardly ever drink but it sounded good and it turned out he had a lot to talk about. It turned into three hours and three beers plus lunch and I started to get that mid-day snus urge about a half hour.

I was starting to regret forgetting my snus and wondering if the convenience store down the street had any when I remembered my PV was in my jacket. I pulled it out and had a few puffs and within a few minutes I felt fine again. I used it a bit more through the next couple hours, probably taking about as many puffs as I used to take on a cigarette or two in the old days. I was pleasantly surprised that it worked so well.

This was my first true test with WTA liquid without my more that reliable snus available and I judge it a true success in delivering the goods.

 

[AaronY]

Vaping straight nicotine type e-liquid certainly can be a danger to some people. It can and does lead to depression and a host of other phycological problems for a percentage of smokers trying to make the switch. In the last 2 1/2 years I have watched it over and over again as someone struggles with there PV and falling into what one person called a "mental desert". An apt description. The day they start doing snus (or start smoking again) they are back on the road to being a normal functioning human.

Have any link to studies that talk about this more. Interested in how nic only liquid causes "mental desert" I just go in to nic commas but I noticed since vaping I have been getting less done I don't know if it is other factors. Want to learn more about or if it is just fear mongering. Thanks

 

[SybilsSister]

Aaron,I don't have any links or studies but have given the nic only thing a lot of thought.I don't think nic only causes mental desert unless you are predisposed to depression,anxiety,ADD etc.I came to realize that the only way to deal with my addiction was to understand my addiction.Kinabaloo made a really good point that there are many people still smoking analogs out there even though they all know how bad smoking is for them.Smoking makes a lot of people feel good.I have suffered from depression and anxiety since childhood.Never in a million years did I realize that the WTA was a form of medicine for me.Even though I take medication for my depression/anxiety nic only didn't cut it for me.I need the WTA and I am not going to freak out about it as the only other option is to live my life miserable.Right now snus is working for me and hopefully WTA eliquid will too.I always thought my addiction to analogs was the hand to mouth thing and a little nic to keep me from getting cranky.If it were only that simple I would be one of the many sucess stories I am always reading on here.I know I am making progress as I am almost off the analogs.BTW since starting snus a few days ago I couldn't care less about analogs.I love vaping and will continue to vape as it also helps to keep off the analogs.Never would I have imagined the journey I was about to embark on when I bought a 10 dollar e-cig on a whim.One veteran here on the forum told a newbie who was having problems to soldier on-great advice-I will soldier on.SS.

 

[Dream]

Aaron,I don't have any links or studies but have given the nic only thing a lot of thought.I don't think nic only causes mental desert unless you are predisposed to depression,anxiety,ADD etc.I came to

Please explain how you connect this to ADD?

 

[kinabaloo]

Have any link to studies that talk about this more. Interested in how nic only liquid causes "mental desert" I just go in to nic commas but I noticed since vaping I have been getting less done I don't know if it is other factors. Want to learn more about or if it is just fear mongering. Thanks

I object to the term 'fear mongering'.

What I said was that nicotine has historically been used in a WTA context and that used alone it might cause imbalances. And suggested that might center 1) around dopamine / serotonin balance; 2) the absence of satiation for some; the second point led me to think that without the satiation effect, that the effects of the nic could cause a baseline drift.

The important thing is not the 'thinking aloud' about mechanisms, but that equating smoking with just ncotine takes WTA use that was not linked with mental imbalances (except as beneficial) and for no good reason changed that time-honored formula to just nicotine; that is, at the least, untested long-term.

Just had to comment on that term, it's nothing personal of course as we're very much of a similar mind i would guess.

Just got tired of the WTA is new and untested thing. It is not; use of nicotine alone is new and untested - and clearly doesn't work for some (and it is those 'some' that might not do well on it).

----

ps: i also never said niconly could cause anything, just that it might lead to imbalances.

Good thread - lots of input, ideas and chances to rethink, think further, learn and move forward

 

[SybilsSister]

Dream,I said ADD as I know I probably(sp) have a touch of that.When I am feeling "normal" LOL-I am like a house on fire with energy going in all different directions.SS.

 

[Dream]

Dream,I said ADD as I know I probably(sp) have a touch of that.When I am feeling "normal" LOL-I am like a house on fire with energy going in all different directions.SS.

What does ADD have to do with "mental desert"?


I have ADD also. I can relate very well to the "house on fire" ... this is not a bad thing, IMO.
Chain-vaping nic-only juices just makes me anxious and generally less productive.

 

[MikenGA]

Just to update: Last week I did a day of 'nic only', and felt quite good most of the day. The amount of ejuice I vaped through the day was about 4.5ml (24mg); 3 times more than the WTA ejuice of the preceding days (1.5ml - 18mg). So, I started another day of 'nic only'.

The 2nd day, I felt a bit antsy from the beginning, and late in the afternoon, I noticed my thoughts wandering toward analogs. A few drags of WTA juice took care of the urge pretty quick, and I vaped about .5ml the rest of the night.

Next day, I stayed with WTA juice and vaped only 1.5ml (18mg) the entire day.

It's really interesting to note that 18mg WTA juice is significantly more satisfying than 24mg 'nic only' juice (plus Ethan does a really nice job with flavor)!


*********************


I didn't begin smoking until age 27. I never felt a bit of peer pressure to smoke, and I didn't particularly like the smell of a burning analog. Why did I begin smoking?

Easy answer: I fell into a chronic state of depression (I worked at night) and couldn't shake those dark mental clouds away. I developed ulcers that hospitalized me, and took drugs to relieve the pain they caused. Because I wasn't getting any better, on a whim I decided it might be in my best interest to modify my own self image. I didn't smoke, drink or cuss, so that's where I started my behavior modification. I said, "DAMN! I'm gonna buy a bottle of DAMN wine and some DAMN smokes!"...and that's what I did.

Two weeks later, I was a cussin', smokin' wino, but my depression had lifted, the pain had gone away, I stopped taking prescriptions drugs for ulcers, and I felt DAMN GOOD!

Through the ensuing years, I smoked for 'my health'.
Strangely, each time I previously tried to quit smoking, that familiar depression reappeared. The REASON I smoked was to FEEL BETTER!

'Nic only' juice DOES seem to quell the tendency toward depression for me. I don't know how low I can take the nic level before clouds reappear, but I'll probably find out in time. I sincerely doubt I'll ever take it to ZERO nic...no desire to do that.

On the other hand, although 'nic only' juice does taste great, has a better throat hit than analogs, smells better and results in a LOT MORE VISIBLE VAPOR (which I enjoy feeling and seeing), a good ole nasty analog calmed me in ways a PV has not...until my recent samples of WTA juice.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......

Yep, vaping is FINALLY a relaxing, tasty, billowing, pleasant smelling alternative to analogs, and with WTA, it's giving me a reward better than an analog.

Today, rather than worrying if (or when) I'm going to smoke again, I have been celebrating that I currently have NO DESIRE to smoke again.

I'm also celebrating that I have spent $429.72 on vaping hardware, supplies and shipping fees since September, and I'm set for several months with no further expenses. Even better, check my signature line below and PLEASE NOTICE, I have saved slightly more than I would have spent - easily could have spent since September - on analogs alone.

BEST OF ALL...I'm hangin' out with Y'ALL!

In the words of that famous actor, Charlie 'whatshisname'...I'M WINNING, and I THANK YOU ALL for helping me to finally succeed!

YAY!!