I could have just hit the like on that post rothenbj, but I have to compliment the avatar too. Too funny!
WTA is the future
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Sdh, glad it's working out for you. If I may use you as an example, you are a good one as to why we need WTA. Far to many people have a death grip on there PV. I once saw an e-cig accessory that was a chain for hanging an e-cig around you neck. That's getting bad.
I would guess that anyone who is using a 5 or 6 volt PV is in desperate straights. To push it that far to try and imitate smoking is getting just plain nuts. I have to wonder how many years those folks are going to be able hang on. Sooner or later something will happen and they will be right back on the smokes. If it doesn't scratch the itch and leaves you wanting after a reasonable amount of time there is trouble ahead.
It was interesting reading the study that pete linked to. The research confirms what many folks who have been involved with WTA have been saying.
The minor alkaloids are indeed cofactors that enhance the nicotine effect. I would assume some of them also act on their own but that's a bit beyond me. There is nothing in the study that hasn't been correctly guessed at by the folks here. No surprises. WTA is certainly more addicting for some people... but that is also the reason it is more effective in helping people quit smoking. Obviously if someones objective is to quit all nicotine then WTA is not for you. If someone is looking simple to replace smoking with a far less harmful form and straight nicotine is not cutting it then WTA can be a life saver.
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Just heard this from Ethan the guy that makes the wonderful juice Maui Blend.
Interesting right? Have a good one all.
Which brand snus did you use. My PV died the other day when I was out. Tried this imported snus that taste terrible. Like a salty wet tobacco.
But calmed my cravings. WTA is close but is not totally there yet IMHO.
I've used a lot of different flavors and brands. Most of us don't stick to any particular brand. Many seem to like the General Mint. Not to get too OT, you can get opinions http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...your-lip-your-nose-right-now.html#post4445770 on the dark side.
Nice. Got General normal. That was the salty strange stuff I tried.
Guess I need to try the mint. Think WTA does most of the stuff that snus does. Does it for you?
Nice. Got General normal. That was the salty strange stuff I tried.
As mentioned come on down to the smokeless section of this forum and we can give you the down and dirty on snus. I don't want to distract this important discussion with to many details on that.
WTA has the same alkaloid mix as snus so the satisfaction level will be essentially the same. I have been able to try some WTA recently and the results are very similar to snus, which I have been using for 2 1/2 years. It's a different delivery system so there will be adjustments to be made, but other then that they would be interchangeable.
Nice. Got General normal. That was the salty strange stuff I tried.
Like I mentioned before, when I bought the WTA originally, my thought was to see how I'd feel just using it. However, I really like snus (btw, do you mean General original because that one didn't do much for me) so I never have tested how I'd feel just vaping WTA. I kind of like not having the constand hand to mouth thing and when I vape it's more for enjoyment than need, a puff here and there and I'm content.
I read a post by a fellow from Sweden who talked about snus use the same as cigarette use where you keep increasing the amount you use. However, unless you're really into nicotine, I don't see it happening and I'm approaching two years at the same quantity I started using. Normally 4 portions, sometimes 5. I really believe my smoking had little to do with nic and a lot to do with the MAOI effect that the combination of WTAs provide.
Totally OT, but snus related.
My son has taken to Skoal Wintergreen Long Cut.
What brand/type of snus would be close?
He's a young man, & I'd rather see him using snus...
My son has taken to Skoal Wintergreen Long Cut.
What brand/type of snus would be close?
He's a young man, & I'd rather see him using snus...
I'm curious as to why you think vaping at a higher voltage
means you may be more desperate or addicted than anyone else?
Personally when I use a lanyard it's because I don't want to lose my device not because I want it closer to my mouth lol!
I can't think of any reason why people who vape at 5v or even 7.4 would be more likely to go back to smoking than someone using 3.7v perhaps you could elaborate on this assumption a little more for me please?
I use many different voltages for the purpose of trying to get more flavor from my juices or to see how they hold up flavor wise when reviewing them no other reasons than those.
C.B.
I tried some WTA juice at Vapercon at 7.4 volts and let me tell ya, I was blown away. I NEVER buy juice from anyone, to expensive, I'm a DIY'er. When I took a few hits of the WTA juice I bought a bottle on the spot. Everything I missed in a cigarette just ended up in my PV. I was amazed at the difference. Just my opinion but I'm getting some to add to all my juices, just really amazing.
I'm curious as to why you think vaping at a higher voltage
means you may be more desperate or addicted than anyone else?
Personally when I use a lanyard it's because I don't want to lose my device not because I want it closer to my mouth lol!
I can't think of any reason why people who vape at 5v or even 7.4 would be more likely to go back to smoking than someone using 3.7v perhaps you could elaborate on this assumption a little more for me please?
I use many different voltages for the purpose of trying to get more flavor from my juices or to see how they hold up flavor wise when reviewing them no other reasons than those.
C.B.
You may have missed my point, and I didn't mean to offend anyone. Don't take it personal please.
The point I was trying to make is that a lot of stuff we think we need could very well be just a compensation for the lack of WTA some of us feel. The chain vaping, high voltage vaping, etc, would certainly fall into that category. A good deal of that appears to be chasing the illusive dragon we can never quite catch. How much of this would be needed if we where getting a higher level of satisfaction out of the e-liquid.
I'll make an educated guess and say that for most people a reliable 3.7 volt PV would be plenty. Fact is it already is plenty for the majority of those that don't feel the need for WTA. Once the dragon is slain a good deal of this stuff becomes unimportant.
Stubby, I agree with pretty much everything you've stated regarding the WTA. The chain vaping, high voltage, "needing" new pvs/mods, I think you're right on in saying that they are all signs that something is missing, I sure hope it winds up being WTA, and that it becomes widely available sooner rather than later.
Just to clarify, and for my own information, where is there some info on the chem composition of WTA?
My understanding is as follows (my understanding could be wrong, just stating where my brain is currently at):
The extraction process generally goes-
a. Tobacco
b. Mid step
c. WTA
d. Nicotine
Rather than extract all the way down to nicotine, WTA just stops when all the WTA is still intact, right? So nothing is added, altered, or modified other than we just stop earlier in the process.
Seems fairly safe to me, and definately would like to get some more info on this and perhaps try some juice when the availability and my wallet are a tad better
My understanding is as follows (my understanding could be wrong, just stating where my brain is currently at):
The extraction process generally goes-
a. Tobacco
b. Mid step
c. WTA
d. Nicotine
Rather than extract all the way down to nicotine, WTA just stops when all the WTA is still intact, right? So nothing is added, altered, or modified other than we just stop earlier in the process.
Seems fairly safe to me, and definately would like to get some more info on this and perhaps try some juice when the availability and my wallet are a tad better
Good to hear positive feedback. And it is indeed quite possible that only a little will do the trick.
Basically, yes. There might not be a step b), but a) c) d), almost certainly. To be more exact, the procedure is likely to be to go straight for the alkaloids from the leaf, but that can be thought of as a multi-step process (base - acid flipping), and perhaps repeated for extra purity.
I posted the alkaloid list (top 5) in thread 'WTA' on this forum. Nicotine is 95% of WTA.
++++
For those on the borderline (likely vape a bit excessively or need the odd cig) a small cut of WTA could work well; maybe just 20% wta 80% nic-liquid.
While there certainly isn't an absolute correlation between say high voltage mods and being marginal WTA-deficient (so to speak), that may often be he case (to some extent), but not necessarily. I think Stubby put it about right.
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I've been using a pv for close to two years now, and I'm one of those who picked up the pv and never touched another analog, after 18 year pack/pack and a half a day habit. It was easy for me to quit with the pv, not that I don't still have crazy cravings from time to time. But, almost two years later, and I'm still vaping relatively high nic... about 18nic on average.
My friend who I convinced to try a pv has NOT enjoyed it nearly as much. Its been a constant struggle for her, and she's never put down the cigs completely. She's now using a pv about an hour or two a day, and analog cigs the rest of the time. For someone like her, I think it might be worth it to try the extra oomph in WTA. She's tried a few different pv's, tons of juice options... for whatever reason, it's not taking the physical or psychological place that analogs fill for her. Whatever, but for someone like that, I don't see the harm in trying another stopgap in e-cig tech that might keep them off the cigs for good.
I understand that some people have strong feelings about this, but really, people... everyone is not you, and not everyone has the same needs. What possible harm can there be in someone else trying something that might help them get off analogs for good?
And as for the people who love their mods and high voltages and whatnot... I kinda figure its like anything else. I'm a total technophobe, and might be perfectly happy with my ego and a few carto options. I'm also the person who swore I'd never need anything from my cellphone but that it make and answer phonecalls. All my friends were spending a fortune and raving about their smartphones a few years ago, and I just didn't see the need for it. But they did, and they loved it, and it was important to them. How are elaborate ecig setups any different? Some people loving experimenting with the newest exciting thing, and others don't really care about that. Eh. To each their own! Whatever floats your boat! (insert other inane platitude here). Seems to me that people who are SO concerned about what other people do that doesn't affect you in the slightest... they might be the ones with the issues. Just sayin'.
My friend who I convinced to try a pv has NOT enjoyed it nearly as much. Its been a constant struggle for her, and she's never put down the cigs completely. She's now using a pv about an hour or two a day, and analog cigs the rest of the time. For someone like her, I think it might be worth it to try the extra oomph in WTA. She's tried a few different pv's, tons of juice options... for whatever reason, it's not taking the physical or psychological place that analogs fill for her. Whatever, but for someone like that, I don't see the harm in trying another stopgap in e-cig tech that might keep them off the cigs for good.
I understand that some people have strong feelings about this, but really, people... everyone is not you, and not everyone has the same needs. What possible harm can there be in someone else trying something that might help them get off analogs for good?
And as for the people who love their mods and high voltages and whatnot... I kinda figure its like anything else. I'm a total technophobe, and might be perfectly happy with my ego and a few carto options. I'm also the person who swore I'd never need anything from my cellphone but that it make and answer phonecalls. All my friends were spending a fortune and raving about their smartphones a few years ago, and I just didn't see the need for it. But they did, and they loved it, and it was important to them. How are elaborate ecig setups any different? Some people loving experimenting with the newest exciting thing, and others don't really care about that. Eh. To each their own! Whatever floats your boat! (insert other inane platitude here). Seems to me that people who are SO concerned about what other people do that doesn't affect you in the slightest... they might be the ones with the issues. Just sayin'.
WTA / tobacco alkaloids :
95% nicotine
2-3% nornicotine
2-3% anatabine
0.3% anabasine
plus quite a few more at < 0.1%
It is unknown which ones are the active ones re the WTA effect; though probably not nornicotine (anatabine - a MAOI - is likely important; however, for sure the effect is a synergy or synergies with a number of important aspects and might well include some of the alkaloids at <0.1%)*. The naturally occuring blend is effective, that much is for sure and it's probably wisest to go with that - we don't want to make the same mistake again by thinking that only A and B are important (as happened when nicotine was crowned king).
* A pizza that was just dough would be decidedly unnappealing and one with only cheese still so; that japapeno might be small in quantity but it packs a punch, especially when combined with onion ...
95% nicotine
2-3% nornicotine
2-3% anatabine
0.3% anabasine
plus quite a few more at < 0.1%
It is unknown which ones are the active ones re the WTA effect; though probably not nornicotine (anatabine - a MAOI - is likely important; however, for sure the effect is a synergy or synergies with a number of important aspects and might well include some of the alkaloids at <0.1%)*. The naturally occuring blend is effective, that much is for sure and it's probably wisest to go with that - we don't want to make the same mistake again by thinking that only A and B are important (as happened when nicotine was crowned king).
* A pizza that was just dough would be decidedly unnappealing and one with only cheese still so; that japapeno might be small in quantity but it packs a punch, especially when combined with onion ...
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