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Purifying WTA down to just nicotine is like the mistake of purifying wholewhat down to white flour. It's enough to remove the storks.

With vitamins and minerals there are balances for ideal efficacy. B-vits best taken as a group, calcium with magnesium and potassium (and D), E should be the E-family not just the alpha tocpherol, ... I think nicotine w/o the other alkaloids is a bit like this.

Nicotine historically always had been used in WTA form, after all. What is untested is using nicotine on its own long-term.
 
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From one of the most pro-vaping articles ever seen in the MSM:

"Some 50 million Americans continue to smoke, and it’s not because they’re too stupid to realize it’s dangerous. They go on smoking in part because of a fact that the prohibitionists are loath to recognize: Nicotine is a drug with benefits. It has been linked by researchers (and smokers) to reduced anxiety and stress, lower weight, faster reaction time and improved concentration.

“It’s time to be honest with the 50 million Americans, and hundreds of millions around the world, who use tobacco,” Dr. Rodu writes. “The benefits they get from tobacco are very real, not imaginary or just the periodic elimination of withdrawal.

“It’s time to abandon the myth that tobacco is devoid of benefits, and to focus on how we can help smokers continue to derive those benefits with a safer delivery system.”


- http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/08/s...but-they-have-some-unlikely-critics.html?_r=1

The whole article is worth a read.

The only thing I have to disagree with is the use of the term 'nicotine'.

Even the most enlightened supporters of harm reduction are still making the mistake of equating smoking with nicotine. In the study in Italy, after 6 months with a free e-cig only 1/2 were still vaping and only 1/4 had stopped smoking entirely. I think these figures are likely close to the norm. And the fact that currently vaping is nicotine-only accounts for that limited success. Yes, it's been a great success compared to NRTs, but it could be so much better.

Those figures are the evidence that the hypothesis is unwarranted. After all, why make that assumption - because that is all it is.

That it is the alkaloids that are the key, and not something else, is backed by science going back years; and a growing (but still small) body of testimony.

Rather than be carried away with our success we need to take a good look at the even bigger failure, and move forward. Hundreds of millions could be helped.
 
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rothenbj

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Kinabaloo, I think you summed that up pretty nicely. I only started using WTA to find out if it would be a better cigarette replacement due to my failure in completely giving up smokes and watching the last few years as people that were motivated to quit using E Cigs fell back into smoking.

I knew for me something was missing and could see that in those that gave up. I went to snus which most turn their collective noses up at. Heck, I did myself until I started researching. Unfortunately, I'll never be a good testing platform since I fell in love with the taste and convenience of snus.

Nicquid has to evolve and mature. I agree that there may be long term issues with inhaling anything but air 24/7. There may not be, but why take the chance. I believe if we can establish what made smoking so enticing despite the danger and deliver it in a seriously less dangerous product that is satisfying, smokers will gravitate to said product.

I am looking forward to some testing on WTA which could alleviate some of the concern that a few have on these other tobacco specific alkaloids. I have no personal issue with consuming them since I had been doing so for 43 years in a much more harmful delivery system. However, I'd like to be more comfortable in making statements about it than basing my statements on common sense.
 
Kinabaloo, I think you summed that up pretty nicely. I only started using WTA to find out if it would be a better cigarette replacement due to my failure in completely giving up smokes and watching the last few years as people that were motivated to quit using E Cigs fell back into smoking.

I knew for me something was missing and could see that in those that gave up. I went to snus which most turn their collective noses up at. Heck, I did myself until I started researching. Unfortunately, I'll never be a good testing platform since I fell in love with the taste and convenience of snus.

Nicquid has to evolve and mature. I agree that there may be long term issues with inhaling anything but air 24/7. There may not be, but why take the chance. I believe if we can establish what made smoking so enticing despite the danger and deliver it in a seriously less dangerous product that is satisfying, smokers will gravitate to said product.

I am looking forward to some testing on WTA which could alleviate some of the concern that a few have on these other tobacco specific alkaloids. I have no personal issue with consuming them since I had been doing so for 43 years in a much more harmful delivery system. However, I'd like to be more comfortable in making statements about it than basing my statements on common sense.

Things will hopefully change in time, but while the majority are unaware of the issues and the majority here are the minority for whom nicotine-alone works, the big picture will barely change.

Current (non-WTA) e-liquid is a failure, with a sucess rate of only around 25%. That might be twice as good as NRTs but to forget the other 75% is really myopic. Yet the reason for this sad state of affairs is clear enough.

As Schopenhaur said, "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ignored or ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

Sadly, I can see this process taking many years ...

The role of the other alkaloids in the effect and satiation has been known (published but ignored) for decades.

It is not a new idea; it is the wrong turn that equated smoking with nicotine alone that needs to be corrected. That was a very serious mistake.

WTA is not the new thing, or the untested thing; nicotine used alone is what is new - and it is untested long-term. And it's not working out too well. For most people the satiation and the benefiits are not there; only overdosing to little effect.

BT could redeem itself itself to an extent by taking WTA mainstream. I'd welcome that as the shortcut to a healthier future for millions. I think they'd be crazy to miss the opportunity. I;m sure the scientists there know exactly what I'm talking about; it's no news to them. Will it happen though? Or will DK, JC or TW make a move? I;m not a lawyer, but I don't see any hindrance to the move - it's still a tobacco extract/product.
 
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Katya

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. I;m sure the scientists there know exactly what I'm talking about; it's no news to them. Will it happen though? Or will DK, JC or TW make a move? I;m not a lawyer, but I don't see any hindrance to the move - it's still a tobacco extract/product.

The scientists know, but it's a political hot potato. I've been following the Yale (and Stanford) studies for quite some time.

Well, at least they know it has to do with MAO inhibitors....

Just Google "selegiline and smoking cessation". Selegiline is a MAO-B inhibitor....

Here's one article:

Abstract from Selegiline for Smoking Cessation pilot project -News - CENTURY
 
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cigarbabe

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Very interesting discussion, indeed. Thank you all for sharing your experiences with WTA eliquids.

To your knowledge, what is the difference, if any, between Jerry's and Ethan's WTA ejuices? Has anyone tried both?

I have tried both vendors WTA product and I don't believe there is a whole lot of difference other than flavoring and price since it affects me the same way. Now this is not to say they are using the same process or the same lab because I'm sure that isn't so. :)
The only difference that I can find is Ethan's juice is readily available and Jerry's is not but to my knowledge Aroma does not offer any type of flavors for his WTA and it is in a vg base. :blush:
It only comes in unflavored which while not unpleasant may not be to everyone's liking.
What I do like about the Aroma WTA is that I can add it to any of my juices for the "chill feeling" I am not getting from vaping regular niquids. As I've said before I am usually a two fisted vaper with at least two or more devices loaded which I'm vaping from at one time but when I'm using the WTA it only takes a few hit's and then I stop vaping completely for a good long while and the fact that it helps me to focus slightly better and sleep is all gravy in my opinion!
Someone tried to tell me since I'd been vaping for a year that it was all in my head thinking I get anything from using WTA but they also are one of the many naysayers who keep putting out "false assumptions" about a product they have never tried and really don't have a clue about. I see many of the naysayers claiming it's "dangerous, bad for vapers etc. but I've yet to hear of anyone having a bad reaction to WTA whether in the minute quantities in regular juice or by purchasing Aroma or Vapelicious' products.
I love it and will continue to use it naysayers be damned!
C.B.
 

rothenbj

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I just bought DK-TAB from Aroma Juice. I saw lots of flavors there. I tried to order from Ethan but I can never seem to connect with him. He really needs to get online ordering up.

Have you not emailed him or has he not returned you email?

Info | | Vapelicious

His email addy is listed under Ordering. I haven't had any issues but I agree that he needs to get the on line system up.
 

mooreted

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I emailed him and he was at Vapercon. I got an email back later but I can't find it. I emailed him again several days ago and never got one back. Aroma Juice took my order and shipped the same day. This email ordering thing is annoying. I know those two don't get along, but I like convenience. Not bashing Ethan, I know he's probably a great guy and he knows what he's talking about, but ordering is a pain.
 

MikenGA

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I think Ethan is still having a bit of trouble getting the website functioning at 100%, and I also had trouble reaching him via the email address listed on his site. I left a message about it in his forum, and he immediately posted a different email address to try. I used it with no problem.

Try this email address: vapelicious@gmail.com

He will send a phone number if you ask. Nice guy, and interesting conversationalist.


BTW - I'd like to know how you like the flavor of Aroma juice. I never tried DK TAB...yet. ;)
 
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mooreted

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So, just got 15 Resurrectors in stainless steel, the DK-TAB WTA 26mg juice and a syringe to fill it all with. Very nice.

So, DK-TAB:
--Nice TH
--Slightly sweet
--Kind of a smokey back flavor
--Nice tobacco flavor

This is a very nice vape.

And, WTA:

--I was having kind of a nic fit today and chain vaping. This seems to have cured the fit pretty quickly. Now this could be psychological because I've made friends with the mailman again and I'm happy to get stuff. But it does seem relaxing.

I could definitely vape this all day. Very nice.
 

AaronY

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So, DK-TAB:
--Nice TH
--Slightly sweet
--Kind of a smokey back flavor
--Nice tobacco flavor

This is a very nice vape.

And, WTA:

--I was having kind of a nic fit today and chain vaping. This seems to have cured the fit pretty quickly. Now this could be psychological because I've made friends with the mailman again and I'm happy to get stuff. But it does seem relaxing.

I could definitely vape this all day. Very nice.
So is the DK tab nutty? Did you find WTA works the way you expect?
 

mooreted

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Yeah, it has a background flavor I can't quite identify. Nutty might fit that. It might be a bit sweet for some, but I really like it.

As to WTA, I still vape a lot, but mostly because I really enjoy it. I do feel a bit more relaxed. I don't feel the like I'm on the verge of a nic fit today. Seems like it's working. Might have to take a day and vape nic only and see how I feel.
 

MikenGA

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Might have to take a day and vape nic only and see how I feel.
That's what I'm doing today...giving WTA a rest to see what differences I might notice.

This morn I vaped 1ml of 'Menthol' (18mg) from AmericanELiquid, and this afternoon it's 'SweetTart' (24mg) from AVE. Main thing I notice is I'm vaping more 'nic only' today, than in previous days with WTA juice.

Yesterday, total amount vaped was 1ml of WTA juice, so I've surpassed it already with 7 more hours to go before bedtime. I'm guessing today will be a 3-4ml day of 'nic only' juice.

Interesting...
 

tierrataz

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You are braver than I :laugh: I know my depression took few months to get bad on nic only, but I'm not risking feeling alive again to experiment. My Vmod holds 4.5 ml and I was going through 1.5-2 fills a day on nic only. By dripping WTA 5-6 times a day, my consumption is 3-4.5ml over the past month. I'm happy that I can put the mod down and do things now. :)
 
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