WTA is the future
- Thread starter AaronY
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Air-cured tobacco is hung in well-ventilated barns and allowed to dry over a period of four to eight weeks. Air-cured tobacco has a high nicotine content. Cigar and burley tobaccos are air cured.
Fire-cured tobacco is hung in large barns where fires of hardwoods are kept on continuous or intermittent low smoulder and takes between three days and ten weeks. Fire curing produces a tobacco high in nicotine. Pipe tobacco. Chewing tobacco, and snuff are fire cured.
Flue-cured tobacco was originally strung onto tobacco sticks, which were hung from tier-poles in curing barns (Aus: kilns, also traditionally called oasts). These barns have flues which run from externally fed fire boxes, heat-curing the tobacco without exposing it to smoke, slowly raising the temperature over the course of the curing. The process will generally take about a week. This method produces cigarette tobacco that has medium to high levels of nicotine.
Sun-cured tobacco dries uncovered in the sun. This method is used in Turkey, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania and Mediterranean countries to produce oriental tobacco. Sun-cured tobacco is low in nicotine [presumably as a result of UV light] and is used in cigarettes.
Adapted from Wikipedia.
So basically curing is drying of the tobacco; but also aging the tobacco, during which some chemical changes will occur (like with wine or cheese). But this may or may not be useful wrt WTA.
AFAIK, drying/curing increases TSNA levels, allows conversion of nicotine to useless nornicotine and other minor alkaloids will also be reduced. So for extraction of nicotine or WTA, it would seem best to use freshly harvested tobacco (i.e. uncured).
It would be important to wash the leaves of fertilisers first; besides being directly toxic, they can aid the formation of TSNAs.
+++
Faster drying of the tobacco reduces the levelsof TSNAs; in this way, curing with heat/low humidity might be preferable - for smoke/snuff/snus.
Last edited:
I was thinking along the same line as far as using green tobacco for extraction. Having said that I'm not overly concerned about TSNA levels. The very high numbers that show up in some smokeless tobacco products are mainly due to the fermenting process. Swedish snus which is pasteurized does show some amount of TSNA's, but the studies show it is below the level of causing cancer.
I think we can get to hung up on low TSNA numbers. It's a good thing of course, and we certainly would not want high numbers in e-liquid, but what low TSNA smokeless tobacco has shown us is that reasonably low numbers are simply not a problem. If someone tries to argue that very low TSNA numbers are dramatically worse then ultra low TSNA numbers that would be a mistake.
I think the reason is not that toxins simply become harmless at low levels by some kind of magic, but that the body can cope with detoxifying and damge repair to a certain extent before it gets overwhelmed - something where many factors / toxins all add up.
For a number of reasons, it would make sense to extract from fresh tobacco.
Dvap did a nice write up regarding soaks of tobacco and what you can achieve.
DVap
Soaking tobacco for nicotine and flavor - A chemists' perspective Rate this Entry
Excellent Good Average Bad Terrible 0 Comments by
DVap , 06-27-2010 at 07:37 PM (2001 Views)
Here's a topic I've addressed a number of times in various threads, but I thought I might discuss it here.
What can one expect from soaking tobacco in various solvents (alcohol, PG, VG) to get some real tobacco flavor and/or nicotine?
As far as getting flavor, that's a pretty easy question. If you soak and get a result that you like (either as a liquid in itself or as a flavor additive to regular eliquid) and you don't mind the extra wear and tear on your attys, you've done good. (Assuming you accept that anything that involves soaking tobacco will be less "safe" than good clean regular e-liquid).
As far as getting an appreciable nicotine concentration, soak procedures are self-limiting. What I mean by this is simply that the more tobacco you soak (your nicotine source), the more solvent it's going to take to get nicotine to come out of the tobacco.
Here's a practical example:
You have 1 gram of tobacco. It's likely that this 1 gram of tobacco contains around 20 mg of nicotine. If you use 1 mL of PG to extract it, you could get as much as 20 mg/mL, right?
Wrong.
How much of the nicotine will come out? Maybe 50% if you're feeling generous, probably less. So now we're down from 20 mg/mL to 10 mg/mL. But what's this? When we add 1 mL of PG to 1 gram of tobacco, the tobacco just slurps up the PG.
So we add more PG, say 5 mL total. Now we've got some liquid on top to extract into.. but now we're putting that 10 mg nicotine (tops!) into 5 mL of PG, so we're down to 2 mg/mL and we've still made brown goo.
You see the problem.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...cco-nicotine-flavor-chemists-perspective.html
DVap
Soaking tobacco for nicotine and flavor - A chemists' perspective Rate this Entry
Excellent Good Average Bad Terrible 0 Comments by
DVap , 06-27-2010 at 07:37 PM (2001 Views)
Here's a topic I've addressed a number of times in various threads, but I thought I might discuss it here.
What can one expect from soaking tobacco in various solvents (alcohol, PG, VG) to get some real tobacco flavor and/or nicotine?
As far as getting flavor, that's a pretty easy question. If you soak and get a result that you like (either as a liquid in itself or as a flavor additive to regular eliquid) and you don't mind the extra wear and tear on your attys, you've done good. (Assuming you accept that anything that involves soaking tobacco will be less "safe" than good clean regular e-liquid).
As far as getting an appreciable nicotine concentration, soak procedures are self-limiting. What I mean by this is simply that the more tobacco you soak (your nicotine source), the more solvent it's going to take to get nicotine to come out of the tobacco.
Here's a practical example:
You have 1 gram of tobacco. It's likely that this 1 gram of tobacco contains around 20 mg of nicotine. If you use 1 mL of PG to extract it, you could get as much as 20 mg/mL, right?
Wrong.
How much of the nicotine will come out? Maybe 50% if you're feeling generous, probably less. So now we're down from 20 mg/mL to 10 mg/mL. But what's this? When we add 1 mL of PG to 1 gram of tobacco, the tobacco just slurps up the PG.
So we add more PG, say 5 mL total. Now we've got some liquid on top to extract into.. but now we're putting that 10 mg nicotine (tops!) into 5 mL of PG, so we're down to 2 mg/mL and we've still made brown goo.
You see the problem.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...cco-nicotine-flavor-chemists-perspective.html
Last edited by a moderator:
It's a bit exaggerated. 2ml VG / 1g tobacco is workable. The main issue is that the alkaloids extracted will be in dissolved salt form, which have a lot less impact. I might try 1 drop of saturated sodium carbonate solution / 2ml VG (about 1 part in 40 or 2.5% v/v).
VG might attain higher than expected extraction of freebased nicotine.
Unless one is a light nic vaper, 5mg/ml or so will not impress but the WTA fraction is not too shappy (though not great); for flavor it is best, if one likes that flavor.
VG might attain higher than expected extraction of freebased nicotine.
Unless one is a light nic vaper, 5mg/ml or so will not impress but the WTA fraction is not too shappy (though not great); for flavor it is best, if one likes that flavor.
Last edited:
+1 for Vapelicious WTA eliquid. I have the Honeysuckle flavor with medium WTA. I really like it. Add a small amount of menthol for an even better vape.
I think they must have a backlog. I have tried to order from vapelcious, but have not heard back from him yet.
FYI - Ethan said in early December, that he would be taking a hiatus after the Dec orders were shipped until mid January. I know he was working hard to get as many order's filled before he took a break to catch up on some family matters. I placed orders in early December and got them a day before Christmas.
According to what I understand, he's been working to streamline all processes, and get a shopping cart system setup within a new website design. That, along with fulfilling orders AND maintaining a full-time job is probably making him bonkerz right now...but IMHO his juice is worth the wait (unless it takes months).
I have tried 15 of his flavored WTA selections. Though ALL are tasty, one of my favorites is his 'Resurrection Tea' (sort of a spicey 'Constant Comment' flavor); surprisingly good this time of year!
*********************************
I also have to add: Since I've been using WTA juice (18mg Xtra High WTA), I'm vaping much less than before (approximately 1.5ml/day), but most surprising of all, the nic level my body wants is down to about 9mg. Next time I order from Ethan, I'll be getting some low nic flavors for mixing with the WTA juice I already have.
I continue to experiment with myself, and over Christmas holidays I also discovered that when I vape non-WTA liquid, I'll begin to crave an analog after about 36 hours. Once that craving begins, I turn into a vape machine with 'nic only' juice, but a few 'toots' of WTA juice completely NIXES the craving 4me! What's more, I found out I'm probably more content with a bit less WTA than I've been using.
These days, I tend to vape on TWO Fluxomizer's: One with WTA juice, and another with a variety of other low nic flavors (6mg) without WTA. I've been very comfortable, and thoroughly enjoying 'vaping nirvana'.
Without WTA, I doubt I would have been this successful. It took me over 2 years to get to this point, but it has now been more than 3 MONTHS since my last analog!!!
Indeed, it IS a HAPPY NEW YEAR 4ME, and I wish the SAME 2U!
I have tried 15 of his flavored WTA selections. Though ALL are tasty, one of my favorites is his 'Resurrection Tea' (sort of a spicey 'Constant Comment' flavor); surprisingly good this time of year!
*********************************
I also have to add: Since I've been using WTA juice (18mg Xtra High WTA), I'm vaping much less than before (approximately 1.5ml/day), but most surprising of all, the nic level my body wants is down to about 9mg. Next time I order from Ethan, I'll be getting some low nic flavors for mixing with the WTA juice I already have.
I continue to experiment with myself, and over Christmas holidays I also discovered that when I vape non-WTA liquid, I'll begin to crave an analog after about 36 hours. Once that craving begins, I turn into a vape machine with 'nic only' juice, but a few 'toots' of WTA juice completely NIXES the craving 4me! What's more, I found out I'm probably more content with a bit less WTA than I've been using.
These days, I tend to vape on TWO Fluxomizer's: One with WTA juice, and another with a variety of other low nic flavors (6mg) without WTA. I've been very comfortable, and thoroughly enjoying 'vaping nirvana'.
Without WTA, I doubt I would have been this successful. It took me over 2 years to get to this point, but it has now been more than 3 MONTHS since my last analog!!!
Indeed, it IS a HAPPY NEW YEAR 4ME, and I wish the SAME 2U!
According to what I understand, he's been working to streamline all processes, and get a shopping cart system setup within a new website design. That, along with fulfilling orders AND maintaining a full-time job is probably making him bonkerz right now...but IMHO his juice is worth the wait (unless it takes months).
I have tried 15 of his flavored WTA selections. Though ALL are tasty, one of my favorites is his 'Resurrection Tea' (sort of a spicey 'Constant Comment' flavor); surprisingly good this time of year!
*********************************
I also have to add: Since I've been using WTA juice (18mg Xtra High WTA), I'm vaping much less than before (approximately 1.5ml/day), but most surprising of all, the nic level my body wants is down to about 9mg. Next time I order from Ethan, I'll be getting some low nic flavors for mixing with the WTA juice I already have.
I continue to experiment with myself, and over Christmas holidays I also discovered that when I vape non-WTA liquid, I'll begin to crave an analog after about 36 hours. Once that craving begins, I turn into a vape machine with 'nic only' juice, but a few 'toots' of WTA juice completely NIXES the craving 4me! What's more, I found out I'm probably more content with a bit less WTA than I've been using.
These days, I tend to vape on TWO Fluxomizer's: One with WTA juice, and another with a variety of other low nic flavors (6mg) without WTA. I've been very comfortable, and thoroughly enjoying 'vaping nirvana'.
Without WTA, I doubt I would have been this successful. It took me over 2 years to get to this point, but it has now been more than 3 MONTHS since my last analog!!!
Indeed, it IS a HAPPY NEW YEAR 4ME, and I wish the SAME 2U!
So nice to read good news. Congrats on your progress. i've been lucky enough to try about 1/2 as many of Ethan's favors as you and have liked them all. He's even put some together based on conversations about what my wife and I like/do not like. He did one he called, Dirty Peach Chilled, for my wife. She really likes this one - it tastes just like peach, no artificial taste to it at all, with a cool after taste (not menthol, just a cool effect to the vape).
In another 10 days, I'll hit my 3 month analog free anniversary and I credit it to getting my first WTA e-liquid from Ethan. Until I was able to get the WTA I was still doing up to 1/2 doz analogs a day along w/ vaping. He has been so helpful in email correspondence and telephone calls. I'm using a combination of 18mg nic/high WTA and 18mg nic/extra high WTA. When I make my 3 month analog free date, I'm hoping to cut down the nic to 12mg and high WTA. I was a very heavy smoker for when I stopped after 40 years of smoking and I'm not rushing myself. I want this to work.
Thank you for the info. Maybe he will get back to me in a couple of weeks.
Neighbor Mike and Mike in GA, you both sound like me. I went a long time after 43 years of smoking with not neing able to give up those last few cigs a day. Once the right alkaloid mix was available (for me via snus), it was pretty easy to forget about smoking. I have a month and a week to go to celebrate 2 years without a drag on a cig. Who would have thought that was possible three years ago.
As far as the WTA, I just think that it is the answer for those of us that were missing something in nicquid. I'm sure I could have gotten by with WTA had it been available "back in the day". I just find a few pouches of snus saves the maintenance time of vaping. However, WTA is like enjoying a treat now and then for me. I might be doing 1ml every three days at this point.
Oh, and I'm enjoying Ethan's peach lately. I got that a while ago and it didn't really do much for me. Ethan mentioned that I should let it steep and he was right. My last order, I had him sent me something different along with some Maui Tobacco (which is a regular at this point). I haven't had a chance to bother him with an email. He called it Tester #611-2a. For the life of me, I can't figure out the taste, but I really like it. He definitely knows how to put together flavors.
From what he said, he wanted to work on getting his software working right after the xmas orders and had some personal stuff to take care of. Hopefully he'll be available soon.
As far as the WTA, I just think that it is the answer for those of us that were missing something in nicquid. I'm sure I could have gotten by with WTA had it been available "back in the day". I just find a few pouches of snus saves the maintenance time of vaping. However, WTA is like enjoying a treat now and then for me. I might be doing 1ml every three days at this point.
Oh, and I'm enjoying Ethan's peach lately. I got that a while ago and it didn't really do much for me. Ethan mentioned that I should let it steep and he was right. My last order, I had him sent me something different along with some Maui Tobacco (which is a regular at this point). I haven't had a chance to bother him with an email. He called it Tester #611-2a. For the life of me, I can't figure out the taste, but I really like it. He definitely knows how to put together flavors.
From what he said, he wanted to work on getting his software working right after the xmas orders and had some personal stuff to take care of. Hopefully he'll be available soon.
I haven't read through completely, so please forgive me if I am repeating others' words...
My juices are not tobacco juices at all. I can see why WTA is appealing, however it is NOT what the vaping world needs right now with the war against the FDA. The last thing they need to know is that WTA exists. Just my opinion.
My juices are not tobacco juices at all. I can see why WTA is appealing, however it is NOT what the vaping world needs right now with the war against the FDA. The last thing they need to know is that WTA exists. Just my opinion.
You are correct, that you haven't read through completely. When you get the opportunity to catch up, you'll find this thread to be a very interesting and informative read! Just my opinion.
Have a great day!
Last edited:
This setup kicks ...!! The unit is a SD keychain mod with a 300 mah battery. Got some extra high WTA to keep me happy for a few hours as you don't need to vape a lot to get a good buzz. The tank is a Vision mini. Plumes!!!
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
