Yet another explosion

[Jim_ MDP]

Having said all that I've yet to read or hear about a mod venting while it was sitting on a shelf.

So I want to buy batteries from brands with a reputation to protect and who use factories at least this careful.

The same goes for mods. I buy from well known names who know that one bad screwup could ruin their brand and I believe they have the know how and resources to keep it from happening.

I should resist, but given your predilection for the Pico...

I have two mods that auto-fire. No prize for guessing which two models, it's too obvious.

They have the standard 10 second cut-off, but if that function/code/circuitry is part of the failure chain... it's a bad day if they're sitting with a topper mounted (they aren't). Being built-in batt models makes it all the more worrisome.

I have a dozen or so iSticks, spanning the three generations (I think of the i40, i60 and non-TC i100 as 2nd gen, much better but nothing to write home about).
Despite that 1st gen debacle, JTech/Eleaf recovered and I consider my handful of 3rd gen iSticks/JT products among my favorites (including your beloved Pico ).

The big comeback is possible, and I'm glad they managed it.

Not all Darwin awards are posthumous. You can qualify for one simply by removing yourself from the breeding pool.

Thanks.
A lot of folks enjoy throwing out the "Darwin Award" trope. I get it... it's amusing.

But natural selection concerns itself with populations, not individuals, and cares not a whit how long you live, just whether you passed on your genes before you kick, or manage to neuter yourself.

If the candidate has sprogs running about... that's a disqualification.

 

[sofarsogood]

I should resist, but given your predilection for the Pico...

I have two mods that auto-fire. No prize for guessing which two models, it's too obvious.

They have the standard 10 second cut-off, but if that function/code/circuitry is part of the failure chain... it's a bad day if they're sitting with a topper mounted (they aren't). Being built-in batt models makes it all the more worrisome.

I have a dozen or so iSticks, spanning the three generations (I think of the i40, i60 and non-TC i100 as 2nd gen, much better but nothing to write home about).
Despite that 1st gen debacle, JTech/Eleaf recovered and I consider my handful of 3rd gen iSticks/JT products among my favorites (including your beloved Pico ).

The big comeback is possible, and I'm glad they managed it.

So you've had a pico or vtc mini burst into flames while sitting on a shelf? I try to check every accident story that makes it onto Google news and that scenario is yet to be reported. The auto fire incidents I've seen discussed here always seem to involve a situation where the mod is in use but perhaps I missed something.

The pico is my favorite form factor because it's easy to handle and pocket. It's my favorite regardless of price. My habit, day to day, is to keep one mod and one rda nearby, ready to use, and one more rda with a dry wick for backup. It would not be much burden to remove the batteries from the only other two mods I use, a Pico mega and a vtc mini. The question is whether I need to do that because those two, or any other regulated mod, might might spontaneously short, vent the battery, and start a fire unattended. When has this happened?

 

[SteveS45]

I think if I had a MOD that auto fired I would stop using it immediately and if it had a built in battery it would get disassembled like number 5!

 

[DC2]

The question is whether I need to do that because those two, or any other regulated mod, might might spontaneously short, vent the battery, and start a fire unattended. When has this happened?

Google for "LiPo internal short circuit" to get an idea what level of concern you should have.

I found this interesting...
Understanding LiPo Fires 101 - R/C Tech Forums

5. INTERNAL SHORT CIRCUITS – this is mostly caused by contaminants getting into the cell. You would be amazed how many manufacturers operate in a nearly open air environment. One of my overpaid consultants uses a very simple tool – a magnet – and waves it over the exposed electrodes (prior to cell assembly) and it’s amazing all the metallic contaminants that little magnet picks up. Contaminants can poke through the separator over time. If you are lucky, the cell will just have a high self discharge rate. If you are unlucky, the microshort will cause a localized heat buildup and create a thermal runaway condition – and thus another cozy fire. Another source of internal shorts is the punching process the manufacturer uses to stamp out the anode and cathode electrodes. Most of the low end manufacturers use a low cost steel rule die that cost maybe a couple hundred dollars. The better manufacturers use a high end die that cost a couple orders of magnitude more. The problem with cheap steel rule die punch is that it tends to leave burrs on the electrodes. These burrs have a tendency to puncture the separator and create microshorts. This microshort will create an area of localized heat. In most cases, this will cause the cell to puff up. In bad cases, this localized heat may be enough to ignite the cell. Every time you charge a cell, the cell will expand about 5% in the thickness dimension. This expansion/contraction may cause the burr to eventually rub through the separator. The vibrations and shock from an RC car also rubs the burr against the separator. Most of the lower end manufacturers don’t perform a simple high pot test (apply a high voltage and check for current leakage) to check for small internal shorts during the manufacturing process. The big Sony recall was largely attributed to burr type contaminants as well as Dell’s non-standard pulsed fast charge technique during the CV part of the charge cycle.

What can YOU do to minimize the risk of this type of failure? - Not much actually. It’s not like we are able to audit every cell manufacturer and even if we did, most of the RC cell distributors hide the manufacturer information. Of all the factories I visited, Saehan Enertech had the highest level of quality control and cleanliness followed by Kokam. Enerland is passable though they lag behind Saehan and Kokam. I don’t think I am allowed to list some of the factories I visited that are downright dangerous.

As a distributor – if a lipo cell manufacturer claims that they can produce a custom size cell tooling for you under $2K, then it’s an indication that their electrode punching process is dangerous.

 

[Jim_ MDP]

So you've had a pico or vtc mini burst into flames while sitting on a shelf? I try to check every accident story that makes it onto Google news and that scenario is yet to be reported. The auto fire incidents I've seen discussed here always seem to involve a situation where the mod is in use but perhaps I missed something.

Do either of those two have fixed internal batteries? No.

Yes, you missed something.
More than a few here know exactly which two iSticks had auto-fire issues.
I just managed to purchase both before learning about it.

Don't worry... as far as I know, we don't have that issue anymore with our 3rd gens.
Unfortunately, they're still for sale. I hate to see posts of new vapers having just bought one or another... saw just such a post not a month ago.

 

[Ed_C]

Do either of those two have fixed internal batteries? No.

Yes, you missed something.
More than a few here know exactly which two iSticks had auto-fire issues.
I just managed to purchase both before learning about it.

Don't worry... as far as I know, we don't have that issue anymore with our 3rd gens.
Unfortunately, they're still for sale. I hate to see posts of new vapers having just bought one or another... saw just such a post not a month ago.

My Pico, sometimes, will not stop firing after I release the button. Seems to happen when the battery is almost drained. I googled it and I'm not the only one, but it doesn't seem to be widespread. It only started happening after I updated to V1.03, so I'm not sure if it's hw or fw. I may try and move back to V1.02 and see if it still happens. It's only happened 3 times so far.

 

[Jim_ MDP]

My Pico sometimes will not stop firing after I release the button. Seems to happen when the battery is almost drained. I googled it and I'm not the only one, but doesn't seem to be wide spread. It only started happening after I updated to V1.03, so I'm not sure of it's hw or fw. I may try and move back to V1.02 and see if it still happens. It's only happened 3 times so far.

That's a little different than unattended auto-fire but you're right, I've heard mention of maybe three instances.
I'll watch the Pico thread to hear if you find it's not mechanical. I'm pretty behind on all my JT updates to be honest (horrible display shenanigans) so I hope they haven't introduced a dangerous bug.

 

[sofarsogood]

My Pico, sometimes, will not stop firing after I release the button. Seems to happen when the battery is almost drained. I googled it and I'm not the only one, but it doesn't seem to be widespread. It only started happening after I updated to V1.03, so I'm not sure if it's hw or fw. I may try and move back to V1.02 and see if it still happens. It's only happened 3 times so far.

What did you do to stop the device from firing?
The stakes are higher than usual, not just because of safety but because many of us are stockpiling. It's preferable that these devices die of natural causes, not defects, in case there really is a supply interruption. So far I've accumulated half the mods I intend. In the mean time try to get more experience with the devices I plan to get more of. The only times a battery gets low for me is if I do it on purpose so that's a scenario I'm not likely to encounter from experience. A few times I've had my test pico slip out of TC mode, an annoyance that seems to be cured by forcing the mod to ask if there is a new coil occaisionally. My vtc mini has shown no hiccups. If rolling back the software cures an auto fire issue that's easy enough.

If I had to make a $20 bet I'd say the incident that started this thread was caused by loose or defective batteries but if the electronics really were modified, which would be new to me, then all bets are off. Litigating most of these incidents will be hard because several things could be the fault and fire destroys the evidence.

 

[Ed_C]

I just pulled the battery and when I put in a fresh battery it was back to working fine.

 

[CMD-Ky]

...I hope they haven't introduced a dangerous bug.

A Russian hack?

 

[thetrucker]

A Russian hack?

LOL.................................................

 

[beckdg]

Google for "LiPo internal short circuit" to get an idea what level of concern you should have.

I found this interesting...
Understanding LiPo Fires 101 - R/C Tech Forums

To be fair, that large quote, while directed at lipos because they're commonly used in the RC hobby, isn't specific to lipo.

And in fact the names that were dropped as examples (Sony and dell) were almost definitely exclusive to 18650 limn and lico cells respectively.

Tapatyped

 

[Buckeyevapen]

If only there had been regulations passed to make sure that mods, circuit boards and batteries were produced in an ethical manner with the health and well being of the former smoker trying to quit in mind rather than trying to make a piece of technology a plant.

That point being monetarily and currently politically moot: a battery by definition is stored energy. If released in a manner not by design the result will always be non intentional. Do your homework and be safe: mods tanks and batteries aren't toys and they aren't designed nor intended for folks who aren't into researching their proper use.

When I hear of these accidents I hope and pray that the persons involved are safe and ok and at the same time I wonder why they thought putting a 0.002 ohm build on a mec with 3 free roaming 18650s was some how "cool".

 

[smacuser]

But at least they cover "if the batteries are not well protected"

Or, they could say the man was a fool.

 

[sofarsogood]

Or, they could say the man was a fool.

Except we don't know the circumstances and probably never will. The lawyer will try to squeeze some settlement money from an insurance company and he'll get something regardless of the merits and we'll never hear any more about it. What should be happening is local authorities investigate and determine a cause but they won't. Usually when fire people are interviewed about these accidents they sound dumber than the press and bystanders. Public safety people are tax supported. Why should they like something that reduces tax collections?

 

[SteveS45]

 

[sofarsogood]

I did something that struck me funny a few days ago, has nothing to do with vaping but you'll forgive me.

I live next to a church that was converted to a beer garden a couple of years ago. The employees and customers sometimes make a lot of noise off the business premises and this can be a problem because I often have to be in bed by 8pm so I can be up at 3:55am for work. So I just bought a new cable modem with built in wifi and guest wifi. I enabled the guest wifi and leave it open with the SSID name on the screen capture below. It appears to be making a difference.

 

[mongo74]

I have my wifi set to FBI Surveillance Van. Guess how many freeloading attempts I've had since?

 

[tj99959]

if it was shut off properly, it shouldn't have fired at all... then we would have seen all those spares firing instead... the guy is a runner up Darwin award winner.

What if your pants pocket pushes the button 5 times while you're walking???? Then what?????

Sorry but IMO, the ONLY real safety measure is to NOT put a mod in your pocket! (or spare batteries)

 

[mongo74]

We should bring back the fanny pack...call it the vapers pack so there aren't any 80's timewarps.