Yet another explosion

[Mazinny]

204 isn't bad. Not that I'd want to be one of the 204 people affected.

31 involving spare batteries or batteries outside of the mod.
78 during charging, and I'm guessing a good portion of these were cigalikes and/or ego types
39 during transport, storage, or unknown circumstances.
56 during use.

I wonder how many of the 56 were improper faux-hybrid atomizer matches. I'm not taking the time to read through them all, and of the few I did read, they said things like "model unknown" though the author seems to have no qualms about speculating.

To be fair there are a lot more incidents than the 204 cited in that article. Those are only the ones that particular site could source.

Obviously they didn't report :

- incidents they didn't come across
- the ones reported only on social media
- the ones that were reported in a language other than English
- the ones that the media didn't find newsworthy ( no injuries to people or destruction of property other than the ecig or battery itself )
- the ones that weren't reported in the media because the owners decided to stay private for whatever reason ( maybe out of embarrassment, or to protect vaping, or any other reason ). I know there were a few like that on this forum.

How many more ? Who knows.

As to whether this is " bad " or not, i don't know. It obviously depends on a lot of other information that we just don't have.

 

[Ed_C]

If you're comparing to:

In 2011, U.S. fire departments responded to an estimated 90,000 smoking-material fires in the U.S., largely unchanged from 90,800 in 2010. These fires resulted in an estimated 540 civilian deaths, 1,640 civilian injuries and $621 million in direct property damage; deaths were down substantially from the year before.

NFPA report - The Smoking-Material Fire Problem

 

[Mazinny]

If you're comparing to:

In 2011, U.S. fire departments responded to an estimated 90,000 smoking-material fires in the U.S., largely unchanged from 90,800 in 2010. These fires resulted in an estimated 540 civilian deaths, 1,640 civilian injuries and $621 million in direct property damage; deaths were down substantially from the year before.

NFPA report - The Smoking-Material Fire Problem

Yeah, that's one way of comparing.

Another may be the ratio of incidents to mods in use, compared to the same ratio in other consumer goods using lithium ion batteries.

It's a complicated issue. I think it's less important to know what percentage of incidents are because of user error ( however defined ), compared to equipment malfunction, than it is to try to make things safer through a combination of education and better standards of manufacturing and qc in Senzhen. After all, we are in an industry where the major battery manufacturers do not stand behind their products because they neither market or approve of the way we use the single cells.

 

[Ed_C]

Good points. I'm kind of a loss as to why some seem to be more interested in laughing it up, as opposed to discussing how we could lower the rate of dangerous failures. These incidents can hurt us all.

 

[homeuser6]

ta da ! introducing the nannystate

 

[Ed_C]

Promoting education is all about the Nanny State, right? If it can't be expressed in a simplistic one-liner it ain't worth knowin'

 

[beckdg]

SKIL Saw is a brand... circular saw is the type... why is a woman pointing this out? lmao

Because I'm just a stupid ex-contractor turned trucker?

Think I could skate by on that for a while?

Tapatyped

 

[KenD]

That's where we differ. I don't believe most people have experience with or knowledge of mods and high drain batteries. I know I didn't before I came here and there's countless stories from people in this very forum that would seem to back that up. I was lucky enough to have stumbled onto the pertinent information on battery safety before I did something dangerous. On the other hand, your average person realizes that a saw cuts and if they don't, they should be under the care of another.

When dangers are not apparent we should warn others and not just laugh at their misfortune.

It's a long time since I read the manuals and safety documentation coming with mods, but don't most nowadays come with that proper battery wrap safety card and info on what amperage batteries to use? Of course, we now have plenty of 200+ watt dual-battery mods, with no batteries actually having a cdr high enough to handle the power.

EDIT: not criticizing your points per se, which I think to a large degree are valid. A normal consumer cannot be expected to know how dangerous the batteries we use can be. The closest point of comparison is regular aa and aaa batteries after all. If hadn't spent so much time on ecf I wouldn't have any idea.

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

 

[beckdg]

@Mazinny

I like your rather grounded, intelligent approach as opposed to the overly emotional, tactical, almost polished, political approach of other "informed" and respected long term members.

I support you 100% so far.

Good points. I'm kind of a loss as to why some seem to be more interested in laughing it up, as opposed to discussing how we could lower the rate of dangerous failures. These incidents can hurt us all.

Well...

For one, the people who've established themselves as far as credibility on this site have gone to extremes.

For years I've tried to convince one in particular that things I allow my children to do unattended on a regular basis don't result in blowing your face off.

Or using a battery in the configuration they do doesn't result in blowing your face off.

Or using the chemistries they use doesn't result in blowing your face off.

That it is misuse that results in blowing your face off.

And that...

As we have seen several examples of in the news articles on this site... no chemistry is exempt from the increased threat of misuse and/or poor education.

And that foregoing a better education in favor of warning people to not buy mods with a perfectly good track record because of the chemistry inside the battery cage is a major detriment and possibly even dangerous for some who might not take the time to learn.

Poor education anyone can get right here on any given day as well as at most B&Ms.

Even here, all but one of our "battery experts" is constantly spreading misinformation, half truths, emotional rhetoric and 3rd party heresay garnered by way of direct communication with a retailer for one example.

Provape, (and by extension those that were respected, believed them and regurgitated their spew) for example, was one major reason why people bought AW batteries (from Provape more often than not) instead of batteries better suited to their non-Provari setups for a little over 2 years... and probably some still do today.

I still have a couple of those AW cells myself.

But I didn't just believe the hype. I got some Sammy's, Sony's and LG's, checked the graphs and 3rd party tests that were available at the time and decided for myself.

My AWs are over 2 years old and still nearly brand new.

Tapatyped

 

[Bad Ninja]

That's where we differ. I don't believe most people have experience with or knowledge of mods and high drain batteries. I know I didn't before I came here and there's countless stories from people in this very forum that would seem to back that up. I was lucky enough to have stumbled onto the pertinent information on battery safety before I did something dangerous. On the other hand, your average person realizes that a saw cuts and if they don't, they should be under the care of another.

When dangers are not apparent we should warn others and not just laugh at their misfortune.

I believe in taking full responsibility for ones actions.
If you screw up, man up, own it and learn from your mistakes.
Blame game is for children. Im a grown man.

Do you feel it is Home Depot's responsibility to train every customer in safe tool usage?
Are they liable for your injuries cause by improper use?
Can they(customers) claim "I wasnt told...." and shed responsibility for their actions?

Slippery slope there my friend

SKIL Saw is a brand... circular saw is the type... why is a woman pointing this out? lmao

Lol
So is kleenex.
Only a woman would care enough to point that out.

( relax thats just a joke, put the rolling pin down).

Its an item so common everyone knows exactly what it is by the brand name.
It can also rip through you hand like butter if used incorrectly.

 

[Ed_C]

I believe I've stated my opinion repeatedly and apparently you are only able to see the world in black and white terms and cannot understand a nuanced perceptive. As far as being "grown," most people grow out of this "all or nothing" thinking when they reach adulthood. It is a sign of maturity.

Splitting (psychology) - Wikipedia

I should add that I don't blame you, as it's surely not your fault.

 

[beckdg]

One of the LiPo's my kids play with...

In front of a kanger subox mini kit, cloupor w/tfv4 mini, custom classic BF mod and a Lil pinch for size reference.

All single 18650 mods.

If my 9 and 12 yrs Olds can be responsible and educated enough (for years now) to use and parallel charge these @ 30 amps, any adult is capable of handling and taking responsibility for their actions with an 18650 imr that gets charged @ <2 amps.

Tapatyped

 

[Cheallaigh]

( relax thats just a joke, put the rolling pin down).

didn't anyone warn you about messing with reds being hazardous to your health? we have no souls, so we steal them... don't tell me you don't have one... i can see it, right there... yes... i need a new freckle... come here little soul...






hehehehehehehehehehehehe

 

[Bad Ninja]

didn't anyone warn you about messing with reds being hazardous to your health? we have no souls, so we steal them... don't tell me you don't have one... i can see it, right there... yes... i need a new freckle... come here little soul...






hehehehehehehehehehehehe

Nice try.
Swing and a miss. No soul stealing here.
You see, Im a red too.
Irish, redneck, Taurus, and old school.
I grab crocodiles by the tail and will snatch the pitchfork from the devil himself...lol.

 

[ENAUD]

One of the LiPo's my kids play with...

In front of a kanger subox mini kit, cloupor w/tfv4 mini, custom classic BF mod and a Lil pinch for size reference.

All single 18650 mods.

If my 9 and 12 yrs Olds can be responsible and educated enough (for years now) to use and parallel charge these @ 30 amps, any adult is capable of handling and taking responsibility for their actions with an 18650 imr that gets charged @ <2 amps.

Tapatyped

Your repeated reference to RC lipo packs is a great example of how they are a product built to a consumer level of safety. The leads usually have female plugs, that are keyed to prevent reverse polarity and also make a short in normal usage pretty much impossible. They also wont neatly fit into a front pocket along with some keys and coins Do you let the kiddos strip the plugs off and crimp or solder a different connector on them lipo packs?

Any 18650 can cell has a very small gap from the positive to negative terminals, covered by a thin, easily damaged piece of shrink wrap plastic. In the hands of a good portion of the population, who are unwitting to the design and energy capacity inherent in these cells, they are an unknown danger. And these innocuous looking cells fit neatly into a pocket.

To me the sad part about these incidents is the fact that e-cigs are so polarized in the general public and media, that the opportunity to take these incidents and use them to promote safe handling of loose cells is lost. These incidents are more often used to give vaping a black eye. If I was still a smoker, I would be able to justify my staying a smoker by simply saying, them things can blow up on you, doncha know!

 

[Bad Ninja]

I believe I've stated my opinion repeatedly and apparently you are only able to see the world in black and white terms and cannot understand a nuanced perceptive. As far as being "grown," most people grow out of this "all or nothing" thinking when they reach adulthood. It is a sign of maturity.

Splitting (psychology) - Wikipedia

Accepting responsibility is a sign of maturity.
Shifting blame to cya is a sign of immaturity and weakness of character.
Childish.

I personally value integrity, honest and personal responsibility for your actions.
Do you?

 

[beckdg]

Your repeated reference to RC lipo packs is a great example of how they are a product built to a consumer level of safety. The leads usually have female plugs, that are keyed to prevent reverse polarity and also make a short in normal usage pretty much impossible. They also wont neatly fit into a front pocket along with some keys and coins Do you let the kiddos strip the plugs off and crimp or solder a different connector on them lipo packs?

Any 18650 can cell has a very small gap from the positive to negative terminals, covered by a thin, easily damaged piece of shrink wrap plastic. In the hands of a good portion of the population, who are unwitting to the design and energy capacity inherent in these cells, they are an unknown danger. And these innocuous looking cells fit neatly into a pocket.

To me the sad part about these incidents is the fact that e-cigs are so polarized in the general public and media, that the opportunity to take these incidents and use them to promote safe handling of loose cells is lost. These incidents are more often used to give vaping a black eye. If I was still a smoker, I would be able to justify my staying a smoker by simply saying, them things can blow up on you, doncha know!

There are very good counter points to all your points.

Let us not forget there's still a segment of this site including a "battery guru" or two that insist the word LiPo in and of itself is a near death sentence.

And the constant reference to that, the word explode and the fact it's not a safe chemistry coupled with the phrase "blow your face off" DEMANDS CONSTANT opposition.

It's not much of a difference in difficulty shorting a lipo as shorting an 18650.

There are dozens of choices for terminals with varying degrees of terminal protection after all.

Tapatyped

 

[Ed_C]

Accepting responsibility is a sign of maturity.
Shifting blame to cya is a sign of immaturity and weakness of character.
Childish.

I personally value integrity, honest and personal responsibility for your actions.
Do you?

And when did I say that anyone should not take responsibility for themselves? I just said we have responsibilities to others as well. It's not an either/or thing. When a bridge is out should we not post a sign that there's danger ahead? Or should we just say that it was the person's responsibility to know what was ahead? If it's not reasonable to believe that a person has the required knowledge to be safe, it's our responsibility as human beings to give them a heads-up. I didn't think that was such a radical concept.

 

[ENAUD]

There are very good counter points to all your points.

Let us not forget there's still a segment of this site including a "battery guru" or two that insist the word LiPo in and of itself is a near death sentence.

And the constant reference to that, the word explode and the fact it's not a safe chemistry coupled with the phrase "blow your face off" DEMANDS CONSTANT opposition.

It's not much of a difference in difficulty shorting a lipo as shorting an 18650.

There are dozens of choices for terminals with varying degrees of terminal protection after all.

Tapatyped

Point taken, but in the RC world, incidents have and do still happen, but we don't see them on the news. I wonder why that is?

 

[Kprthevapr]

Toys are safe too, until you fall on the stick and lose an eye!