Zig Zag Coils?

[Trypno]

Has anyone tried it? I imagine it would work best with ribbon wire. What I'm getting at is something like this:

The bends in the wire create resistance, much like a typical wound coil. However it occurs to me that if someone could pull this off in an rda, it could be a big flavor and vapor kicker due to a flatter and increased surface area.

So, zig zag coils, feasible, and has anyone tried it?

 

[milescadre]

I've entertained the idea, but been just rockin a pair of huricanes in my tobh for the last 4 months =P

 

[ekckilleh]

I will try this with Standard round kanthal and post the results when I get. The reason for round being I have no flat/ribbon

 

[Trypno]

I've been batting the idea around as well. I think nails driven into a flat plane at equidistance from each other in two straight lines would make a
good jig for something like this.

I think I'll give this a try as well, at least to see if I can get a good zig zag out of some round kanthal too. I don't have an ohmeter yet so I won't actually attach it to an rda and fire it, but I'll at least try out the feasibility of shaping this with 28ga round.

I look forward to reading your results ekc killer.

 

[JimmyDB]

Has anyone tried it? I imagine it would work best with ribbon wire. What I'm getting at is something like this:

The bends in the wire create resistance, much like a typical wound coil. However it occurs to me that if someone could pull this off in an rda, it could be a big flavor and vapor kicker due to a flatter and increased surface area.

So, zig zag coils, feasible, and has anyone tried it?

Do you figure you would wind the wick through where the gaps are or cover it?

I have some flat ribbon that I crimped and could give this a shot...

I don't think the bends create the resistance though... that comes from the material properties of the metal... right?

I'm thinking the heat won't be concentrated enough though... well, one way to find out for sure without modeling software.

 

[SndGrdn]

Resistance is determined by the total length of the wire...not the shape

As far as the wicking would go, I would think you would do it like a stove top coil and just have the cotton cloud right below the coil...it would work if you have room on the atty deck to fit a big enough coil to get the resistance you want..

 

[Trypno]

Do you figure you would wind the wick through where the gaps are or cover it?

I have some flat ribbon that I crimped and could give this a shot...

I don't think the bends create the resistance though... that comes from the material properties of the metal... right?

I'm thinking the heat won't be concentrated enough though... well, one way to find out for sure without modeling software.

I'm thinking I'd snake the wick through the coil.
I'm pretty sure it's a combination of the bends, and the resistance quality of the wire as well. The smaller the diameter of the bend, the more resistance you'll get.
You may be right about the heat not being concentrated enough, though I think more likely it just won't generate enough resistance, period.
I think the biggest difficulty will be keeping tension on the wire while building this one. Tension would have to be even all the way through in order to make identical bends in the wire, the only way I think it could be done is with two sets of nails in a board running parallel to each other at an equidistance apart.

 

[JimmyDB]

Ok... I built one at 1 Ohm. Flavor at 35W... ok, Vapor at 35W, not so much. I put mine on so that it was in the horizontal plane... and I ran different wick through each gap.

I used 0.8 x 0.1mm Kanthal A1 ribbon with Rayon for the wick. If you snake the ribbon through, I think results will be much much worse.

 

[JimmyDB]

I'm thinking I'd snake the wick through the coil.
I'm pretty sure it's a combination of the bends, and the resistance quality of the wire as well. The smaller the diameter of the bend, the more resistance you'll get.
You may be right about the heat not being concentrated enough, though I think more likely it just won't generate enough resistance, period.
I think the biggest difficulty will be keeping tension on the wire while building this one. Tension would have to be even all the way through in order to make identical bends in the wire, the only way I think it could be done is with two sets of nails in a board running parallel to each other at an equidistance apart.

This isn't water pipe... the bends don't cause a resistance within the realms we deal with. If you can show me otherwise, please do.

 

[Trypno]

This isn't water pipe... the bends don't cause a resistance within the realms we deal with. If you can show me otherwise, please do.

That's why this is only a concept. I never said this would work, only that I thought it should, only postulating the idea. A theory needing a test if you will. If I had flat ribbon I would have just tried this myself.

My grandparents used to have wall-mounted space heaters in their house with zig-zag coils in the elements. If I'm remembering correctly, they weren't circular coils, they were S-shaped bends that heated up to a red hot glow along the length of the strand. That's what made me think something like this could be feasible, in some form. I could be mis-remembering though...that style of heater went out of use sometime in the 80's I believe, so it's been a long time since I saw the unit functioning.

So far, your initial trial has proven otherwise, thanks for the info.

 

[Bunnykiller]

I tried it .... used a hair comb to form it.. didnt work toooo well, got vape from it but kept getting hotspots when the wick would shift due to heating

 

[JimmyDB]

This isn't water pipe... the bends don't cause a resistance within the realms we deal with. If you can show me otherwise, please do.

That's why this is only a concept. I never said this would work, only that I thought it should, only postulating the idea. A theory needing a test if you will. If I had flat ribbon I would have just tried this myself.

My grandparents used to have wall-mounted space heaters in their house with zig-zag coils in the elements. If I'm remembering correctly, they weren't circular coils, they were S-shaped bends that heated up to a red hot glow along the length of the strand. That's what made me think something like this could be feasible, in some form. I could be mis-remembering though...that style of heater went out of use sometime in the 80's I believe, so it's been a long time since I saw the unit functioning.

So far, your initial trial has proven otherwise, thanks for the info.

You might be remembering correctly... it was likely fluid based radiant heating system. I have lived in places with boilers/etc. In each of those systems, there is a fluid being heated and then transported through the coils (and sometimes to fins) and bends in the path can cause reduced speed of flow as well as sediment build-up, causing some spots to be hotter than others. In those cases it was normally a bad thing, but there were cases where it would be a good thing.

I just wanted to make sure you understand it's the length of the wire that determines the electrical resistance... well, obviously the length+material properties+circular mills/etc.

Otherwise... I'm pretty sure most any regular thing like this shape has been tried over and over again already,... especially if it's something already used for heating elements. I don't have any issue with you or anyone else giving them a go though... may lead to something new/forgotten/etc

Keep up the search

 

[Trypno]

You might be remembering correctly... it was likely fluid based radiant heating system. I have lived in places with boilers/etc. In each of those systems, there is a fluid being heated and then transported through the coils (and sometimes to fins) and bends in the path can cause reduced speed of flow as well as sediment build-up, causing some spots to be hotter than others. In those cases it was normally a bad thing, but there were cases where it would be a good thing.

I just wanted to make sure you understand it's the length of the wire that determines the electrical resistance... well, obviously the length+material properties+circular mills/etc.

Otherwise... I'm pretty sure most any regular thing like this shape has been tried over and over again already,... especially if it's something already used for heating elements. I don't have any issue with you or anyone else giving them a go though... may lead to something new/forgotten/etc

Keep up the search

Definitely not water pipes, these were small, wall wired, bathroom space heater units. I'm remembering now that they were very long micro/nano coils, not zig zag coils...so I was remembering incorrectly.

Thanks for the results Bunny, sounds like this could possibly be feasible if the wire is kept to a reasonable length, and the bends are a good, even diameter. The big problem seems to be wicking...

I definitely don't think this build would work with thinner gauge wire unless twisted...the resistance might work, but it'd be too flimsy

 

[SndGrdn]

So I decided to give this a try....Not an easy coil to make I probably vaped 10ml of juice making it...

I used 28 gauge Kanthal and it came in at 0.56 ohms I ran it on my Cloupor T8 and started at 10 watts and at around 40 watts it started getting a little to hot for me.

Here are a couple of photos of it...

Nice fluffy cotton cloud right under the coil. Atty is Plume Veil


Firing her at 40 watts


Vapor = pretty good...
Flavor = pretty good...

Will I make it again? Probably not, Just to tedious for me...If I had about 6 1/16 drill bits I would drill them into a chunk of wood to create a jig of sorts which would make it way better but I don't have them so I'll stick to regular old ugly round coils for now....BUT IT DID WORK!!!!!!

Thanks for the idea...

 

[Trypno]

Thanks SndGrdn, those are awesome results, glad to hear everything worked out. So it was a 1/16 drill bit you used? I'll have to give this a try myself with 28ga.
So other than the tedium, it does work and produces good vapor and flavor?
So if someone came up with a less tedious way to do this, where would this build fall in terms of usage? Would it actually be comsidered an improvement over micro-coils?

 

[SndGrdn]

Thanks SndGrdn, those are awesome results, glad to hear everything worked out. So it was a 1/16 drill bit you used? I'll have to give this a try myself with 28ga.
So other than the tedium, it does work and produces good vapor and flavor?
So if someone came up with a less tedious way to do this, where would this build fall in terms of usage? Would it actually be comsidered an improvement over micro-coils?

Well I tried a 1/16 inch drill bit first but only had one so that didn't really work but like I said you could make a jig of sorts pretty quick if you had 6 or 8 or so bits and just drill them into a block of wood...The zig-zag coil ( ) in the picture I made with a pair of needle-nose pliers and a smooth flat tip pliers.

I thought the flavor was good and the vapor also good. I was hoping the resistance of the single coil was a little higher so I could have made it a dual build, I think it would chuck pretty nice in dual but single coil was better then I thought. With the cotton cloud filling the build desk in dual coil it would hold a lot of juice.

I may try doing this coil again and do more turns also try and get them tighter together, If I could get a dual coil build at around .5 to .7 with tighter turns I think this would be a really nice setup.

 

[Trypno]

Rock on, I'm definitely going to look into doing this. I've got a spare piece of twisted kanthal waiting to be used for something. I just need to get myself an ohmeter asap so I don't blow myself up in the experimentation process, and I'll be right there with ya.

As far as a jig goes, you're thinking exactly what I'm thinking basically. You wouldn't need that many drill bits, just posts of an equivalent diameter.
Zig Zag coils could, of course, vary in length and bend diameter dependent upon the users rda and preferences.

My guess would be a longer wire and more/tighter bends would increase the resistance, or maybe a shorter wire with even more or tighter bends.
I mean, the electrical symbol of a resistor is a zig-zag afterall, it shouldn't be that big of a stretch for this to really take off.

Ok I'm going to shut up before I start to sound like a crazed loon, just excited that this actually seems to be a workable thing

 

[minimalsaint]

Haven't built for fun in awhile so this was a good time! Dig the idea, only with a little twist.
After seeing the ZZ coil laying on the cotton cloud, I thought it might work a bit better if the airflow could get around the coil. My solution was fairly simple. I bent the ZZ pattern into 28g kanthal using tweezers for a guide. I would eyeball halfway in the jaws and bend at that point:


Back and forth a few times until I got this:


Went back with the tweezers to tighten up the loops:


And then thought of how in the heck to wick this thing. The idea:
Bend the 2 outer "ears" upward and leave the center one down. Not a great pic here but once it's wicked it's more defined:



The cotton is just fluff that is straightened out along the grain and lightly pressed but not twisted. It fits into the coil like so:


To be continued....

 

[JimmyDB]

And then thought if how in the heck to wick this thing. The idea:
Bend the 2 outer "ears" upward and leave the center one down. Not a great pic here but once it's wicked it's more defined:
View attachment 39


To be continued....

Hopefully that works out better than when I tried it and weaved the wick through each loop.

 

[minimalsaint]

On the atty:


Tails wick over the legs, so no problems with hot legs:


The obligatory non-impressive vapor shot:


Meters out to .6 and once I got the airhole placement to what I considered correct.... It rips pretty dang good! I could see some potential in this style, so I say have some fun and see what you can make of it! Good idea!