As with anything worthwhile you really have to want it and TRY for it to work... for those of us who did and won, it is wonderful 
Blood test lab results for nicotine levels!!!
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Would it help to think of it this way? It's a plenty good delivery system!
Apparently, the thousands of people using a PV will speak to that. However, I can speak only for ME: I have been perfectly content since stopping all analogs from day one after my e-cig arrived. A little on the jittery side for the first couple months, and after I switched away from PG to VG, I am now really content, no more jitters, if fact, so content that almost 3 weeks ago now I dropped the nicotine density of my juice from 24mg/ml down to 18mg/ml, with no side effects whatsoever! I find that fascinating, how can that happen when it never happened that way with analogs...if I cut down, I was a physical and mental MESS!!!
So what is the secret? It's just a bad system? Tell that to the Doc that just published that article in the Wash Times! She seems to think it's a great idea.
AND, that is why these tests have been valuable to me. I wanted to know the truth about what I was actually pulling into my body. And oh yes I was pulling nicotine into my body, and true to the testing done by Ruyan group, it is exponentially lower than when compared to a tobacco cigarette! That was the whole idea! And, if it quenches the god-awful withdrawal side effects of conventional and FDA approved NRT's (nicotine replacement therapy) PLUS gives the person using the options each individual needs to be able to stop smoking cigarettes, Lo and Behold, it has proven itself to be the very BEST kind of NRT. We're happy, this bunch, for some it may be just something new to do, but for me it was for quality of Life and removal of toxins and poisons that I knew and have known for a long time would eventually cause my death! That's pretty powerful, to me. I am now feeling more alive than I have at any time during my 44 years of smoking tobacco cigarettes. Thousands and Thousands of them. So for people that have never smoked, it's not a good thing to use PV's at all, just as it would not be a good thing to start smoking tobacco cigarettes. In another 29 days and 9 hours, I will be 6 months without a cigarette in my mouth.
NOTE:
I have just posted this entire post in the Washington Times "comments" in response to article :By Dr. Elizabeth M. Whelan | Thursday, August 6, 2009. Looked pretty good!
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This would be good news for those of us who have quit analog's completely using e-cigs. If e-cigs don't work for you, then they don't work for you. That's something you'll have to tackle on your own. Everybody is attached to a different part of an analog. Now you have some more information to decide what's best for you. So you win
and thanks to kate51 and joanna for initiating the idea
and thanks to kate51 and joanna for initiating the idea
You're more than welcome, but was Joanna1010 that posed the question, Tom09 was tremendously helpful from there to get the ball rolling, I just tried to let everyone know what a valuable thing a testing method could be, it was something I have been at issue with for a long time, DO NO HARM to me, to my family. It just happened to turn out to be a very good thing, and for you as well!
It has worked wonders for me. I really wanted to quit smoking though. I never vape anything over 16mg so my levels should be even lower. I think that the test results are indeed good news.
Please send him this also:
http://www.3news.co.nz/Video/Lifestyle/tabid/372/articleID/113909/cat/73/Default.aspx#video
http://www.3news.co.nz/Video/Lifestyle/tabid/372/articleID/113909/cat/73/Default.aspx#video
There is more good news on the horizon for us, the FDA is giving us all stomach cramps right now, but I feel confident it will all be sorted out, thousands of us PV users cannot be wrong! And we cannot be stopped either...not if we keep getting our word out to the public who has been confused and fooled by recent FDA reports. We're NOT fooling!
It absolutely great that happily took the opportunity and made the first real blood test lab results after day long vaping available to all of us. While its only a report of his personal case, we still have to wait that anything comparable will be made known to the public from professional research.
I just picked up the following link in a cursory Google search: Figure 1 shows some curves of nicotine plasma concentrations. Happilys nicotine level (13 ng/ml) appears to be in the range of what would be obtained from chewing nicotine gums over the day. Ten hour use of 2 mg gum caused plasma levels rising to ~ 10 ng/ml; 4 mg gum would be at ~ 20 ng/ml after ten hours. So, intensive vaping (~ 3ml * 36 mg/ml) seems to have similar physiological effects, in this example.
Compared to cigarette smoke, the vaping process delivers only a relative small fraction of nicotine, considering the apparently enormous amount ~ 90mg ingested here. Running with a 1/10th figure just to give the idea: ecigs are not a bad delivery system because you might get ~1/10th of the nicotine thats in the fluid. Analogs give ~1/10th of the nicotine thats in unburned cigarette tobacco - plus some stuff from combustion which we may not be fond of. And not forget that nicotine is perhaps not the only factor that keeps on smoking, or keeps away from smoking in case of NRT. I'm thinking of Ruyans study where relief from craving appeared to be quite similar for vaping 18mg or 0mg, or thinking of users reporting to be well in their comfort zone by vaping low strength fluids.
Thanks again, happily, for this new piece of information.
I just picked up the following link in a cursory Google search: Figure 1 shows some curves of nicotine plasma concentrations. Happilys nicotine level (13 ng/ml) appears to be in the range of what would be obtained from chewing nicotine gums over the day. Ten hour use of 2 mg gum caused plasma levels rising to ~ 10 ng/ml; 4 mg gum would be at ~ 20 ng/ml after ten hours. So, intensive vaping (~ 3ml * 36 mg/ml) seems to have similar physiological effects, in this example.
Compared to cigarette smoke, the vaping process delivers only a relative small fraction of nicotine, considering the apparently enormous amount ~ 90mg ingested here. Running with a 1/10th figure just to give the idea: ecigs are not a bad delivery system because you might get ~1/10th of the nicotine thats in the fluid. Analogs give ~1/10th of the nicotine thats in unburned cigarette tobacco - plus some stuff from combustion which we may not be fond of. And not forget that nicotine is perhaps not the only factor that keeps on smoking, or keeps away from smoking in case of NRT. I'm thinking of Ruyans study where relief from craving appeared to be quite similar for vaping 18mg or 0mg, or thinking of users reporting to be well in their comfort zone by vaping low strength fluids.
Thanks again, happily, for this new piece of information.
Okay, you guys and gals can pat yourself on the back all you want, but I'm still not buying it.
It appears as if you have to chain vap the strongest liquid out there to get your nicotine level up to 2 mg nicotine gum. That sounds a whole lot more like a smoking cessation program rather then a smoking replacement program. It's the real achilles heal of e-cigs.
It would also point to a high rate of failure. It's just not enough nicotine to be a good long term replacement for cigarettes.
Try not to take this the wrong way, though you already have, I'm not against e-cigs. I just don't think it's a good smoking replacement for the masses. The average Jane and Joe just doesn't have the time to suck on an e-cig for 8 hours a day to try and keep there nicotine levels up to acceptable levels. Most people actually have to work for a living.
If anyone actually took the time to read the link I posted above you can see that I'm not alone in this. Until the manufactures can make some liquid that has a much higher absorption rate e-cigs are doomed to a second rate niche product. Not-quite-ready-for-prime-time. It's very easy to cut back on nicotine if that's what you want to do, just cut your nicotine level or use it less often. Unfortunately, with the current state of the art in e-cigs, you can't push it any higher if need be.
I think the e-liquid manufactures need to get on the ball and give the rest of us what is needed.
It appears as if you have to chain vap the strongest liquid out there to get your nicotine level up to 2 mg nicotine gum. That sounds a whole lot more like a smoking cessation program rather then a smoking replacement program. It's the real achilles heal of e-cigs.
It would also point to a high rate of failure. It's just not enough nicotine to be a good long term replacement for cigarettes.
Try not to take this the wrong way, though you already have, I'm not against e-cigs. I just don't think it's a good smoking replacement for the masses. The average Jane and Joe just doesn't have the time to suck on an e-cig for 8 hours a day to try and keep there nicotine levels up to acceptable levels. Most people actually have to work for a living.
If anyone actually took the time to read the link I posted above you can see that I'm not alone in this. Until the manufactures can make some liquid that has a much higher absorption rate e-cigs are doomed to a second rate niche product. Not-quite-ready-for-prime-time. It's very easy to cut back on nicotine if that's what you want to do, just cut your nicotine level or use it less often. Unfortunately, with the current state of the art in e-cigs, you can't push it any higher if need be.
I think the e-liquid manufactures need to get on the ball and give the rest of us what is needed.
I see this as a good end to all the claims being made about how e-cigs can lead to stronger nicotine addiction by building tolerances up to a higher level.
When I started that was a concern. People were saying they vaped a lot more then they smoked so they must be using more nic.
This is just not the case as we can clearly see now. Some used a lot more just to reach comparative levels at first but then tapered down.
I started with a lot of 36mg and have went down to 24mg and cut my usage in half.
Blood testing just sheds light on some things a lot of people have been wondering about.
I think if you compare success rates of vaping to NRTs like the patch and gum, there would be a big increase in the percentages of quit rates with e-cigs on top.
Still waiting on that study.
But as you say, there will always be a percentage of people that NOTHING will work for. Some people will smoke until they die and that's just a fact of life.
But for some of use(more then a few)it has worked and I for one am very thankful for it.
When I started that was a concern. People were saying they vaped a lot more then they smoked so they must be using more nic.
This is just not the case as we can clearly see now. Some used a lot more just to reach comparative levels at first but then tapered down.
I started with a lot of 36mg and have went down to 24mg and cut my usage in half.
Blood testing just sheds light on some things a lot of people have been wondering about.
I think if you compare success rates of vaping to NRTs like the patch and gum, there would be a big increase in the percentages of quit rates with e-cigs on top.
Still waiting on that study.
But as you say, there will always be a percentage of people that NOTHING will work for. Some people will smoke until they die and that's just a fact of life.
But for some of use(more then a few)it has worked and I for one am very thankful for it.
Stubby People who are cigarette smokers usually don't go around sucking on a cigarette all day, either, work-place rules etc., or maybe they do go around sucking on a cigarette 24/7, been there! But here's another choice, I'd rather be doing what I know to be a little healthier alternative, that's all I want. Maybe it's not for everyone. Naysayers abound here!
Ok your right in one aspect. This isn't the new we are going to take to the courts to win the battle. But i know that i don't vape non stop i have a job and yes i smoke at my desk but i have to keep it on the D/L. We've known for years that the addiction to smoking was at least 90% mental. nic is just that 8-10% that keeps us feeling good and then feeling bad when it get's low. not everyone has quit and i believe personally 90% of the people that Failed to quit tobacco is cause they were using the wrong equipment. getting suckered in to low end small pieces when they were going to need a screwdriver or at least a 510 so they can vape for 10 mins then go back to work for 3 hours. at least the reason i think e-cigs have worked for most of us is cause it covers that 90% part. The mental part that we could feel something go in our thoats fill us up and we would feel good by the time we exhaled. Even thou my PV isn't giving me near as much nic as tobacco was i still feel that. and it's almost all in my head where it should be.
I'm very pleased by the blood work makes me feel good for us all. We are healthier and most of us are not sacrificing anything to be this way. That's a win in my book
I'd call this great news! My PV/alternative is back to being a PV/alternative not a cessation drug. So like toothpics, gum, an tons of iced tea.....
So like toothpics, gum, an tons of iced tea.....
I'm always confused by absorption claims. People either cite 95 - 99% nicotine absorption or 1/10th that of a cigarette. Both groups point the the Health New Zealand report. I just went back and read it (again!). In section 4.1, they claim 99% absorption, but I can't tell if this is assumed or scientifically verified. In section 4.3, they calculate that 15 puffs ("one cigarette"'s worth) of a 16mg cartridge results in an intake of 1/5th the nicotine one would get from a cigarette.
Obviously, based on your tests, the nicotine levels in the bloodstream are much lower than expected for an active smoker. Does this mean that the HNZ report is wrong, they were just assuming 99% absorption for the purposes of their chart, or that the nicotine is absorbed and metabolized differently than from a cigarette?
Obviously, based on your tests, the nicotine levels in the bloodstream are much lower than expected for an active smoker. Does this mean that the HNZ report is wrong, they were just assuming 99% absorption for the purposes of their chart, or that the nicotine is absorbed and metabolized differently than from a cigarette?
That "98% nicotine absorption" figure had been determined for combustion cigarette smoke. In his preliminary Ruyan reports, Laugesen (Health NZ) simply assumed that it would just be the same for e-cig vapor. However, the same study group later reported [thread=15034] new data on blood nicotine levels [/thread] (some links should be somewhere in that thread). Those actual results indicate that uptake of nicotine is less effective than had been previously anticipated. Bottom line, the "98% absorption" figure does not necessarily hold true for vaping.
Okay I may have been a bit over the top in my last post. But I still stand by the basic premise that because of the low nicotine numbers e-cigs are not going to work for a lot of people. There is a down-side to this. It's a win for those that can get by with less, for others it isn't.
The whole idea of nicotine addiction being 90% mental is also suspect. Just look at the many thousands (actually hundreds of thousands in Sweden) who have quit cigarettes using snus. No throat hit, no smoke/vaper, but a good hit of nicotine equal to cigarettes.
If you can't even acknowledge a downside to the low nicotine numbers you are doing no service to those of us that have had problems with it. Some people on this forum are starting to sound a whole lot like the anti nicotine/smoking crowd.
i think you are wrong, until march i was a very heavychainsmoker, over 50 Mboros per day. lately more, i don't really count since i rolled my own cigs.
the e-cig did get me of them in 3 weeks. its not just the nic thats clear for me, most is the smoking ritual. the nic i get from the e-cig is enough to calm me down, even with 18mg.
i accidentially was at work with 0-liquid in my pen depots and got very angry against my fellow workers. then i noticed my fault, got a fresh cart and calmed down again.
the amount the devices deliver is sufficient.
i used the nicorette things, gums and they all failed, guess why ?
the e-cig did get me of them in 3 weeks. its not just the nic thats clear for me, most is the smoking ritual. the nic i get from the e-cig is enough to calm me down, even with 18mg.
i accidentially was at work with 0-liquid in my pen depots and got very angry against my fellow workers. then i noticed my fault, got a fresh cart and calmed down again.
the amount the devices deliver is sufficient.
i used the nicorette things, gums and they all failed, guess why ?
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No one's saying there isn't a down side, but knowledge is power and you could benefit from the knowledge. If the e'cigs don't do it for everyone then that is for them to deal with. Look at it this way if the nicotine levels were very high and you still were'nt relieved then you would have nowhere to go, but the fact that they are very low, means you have options to deal with your cravings.
also these numbers substantiate that 90% of smoking addiction is mental or habit for those of us who have quit. I will say that everyone needs something different and that is the reason e-cigs don't work for everyone
Hook-ed on p-honixs do not work fer every1 either
Some people WILL beat a dead horse
I'm quite happy at 18-24mg and smoked 1- 1 1/2 packs a day. Will probably reduce the level later I think the idea of less nic in my blood is a good thing I'd be concerned if it was equal to or higher than .... logs
RIMP
I'm quite happy at 18-24mg and smoked 1- 1 1/2 packs a day. Will probably reduce the level later I think the idea of less nic in my blood is a good thing I'd be concerned if it was equal to or higher than .... logsRIMP
Stubby, for some reason an awful lot of people have been able to stop cigarettes totally, many are now working their way to 0 nic, and very comfortably, by the way. It all depends on your frame of mind and total knowledge of the thing we're all trying to get away from, and that's nicotine absorbtion through combustion. If a person's goal is not to stop nicotine use but use it safer, the e-cig has for sure proven itself to be useful in that regard. I'm sold on my new standard of life. It's good!
Uh probably late on this but here goes anyway!!!!
You just made all the points that closes the door in the FDA's face PLUS the fact that most ecig users get off analogs if they choose. The key word here is choice.
You basically just said that the ecig is NOT an effective delivery device for this particular drug which is what the FDA is harping on.
It is not an answer to analogs, we were not trying to pollute our bodies as much as analogs.. so you made that point. So they cannot be more dangerous.
Now do you see why it is good news.... Smokers stop smoking, its not a drug delivery device and it is not a analog copy in a different form!!
Whooo Hooo!!!
You also made a point that you would 'have to chain vape the strongest liquid out there'.. LOL!! So can you explain how all us vapers are no longer smokers? That is the beauty of the device!!!
Nothing short of death itself could have forced me to put down an analog (And I tried EVERYTHING).. that is until now and I am vaping 18 mg.... check out my sig.... do you know how many Newports that is? How much nic and toxins....
Doing the happy dance!!!!
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