Japanese Organic Cotton Pads

[havok333]

I've been using the Shiseido cotton for a couple weeks so far and love it. Easy to work with and make consistent wicks, and flavors do seem to come through slightly better than when using cotton balls. I'm only rolling the very tip of the wick to get it into a coil.

It's more expensive than buying cotton balls but shouldn't need to buy anymore for a very long time

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[super_X_drifter]

Yes, KGD (and most likely it's similar competitors) is the best cotton I've ever used.

The most important thing to remember when using this type of cotton is to not densify the wick by twisting it.

You want to start by trimming (with the grain of the fibers) a width that is the width of or just a hair wider than your coil then only twist the tip in order to thread it in - leave the rest uncompressed.

I also sometimes just gently compress it to shape it but never twist a fat piece to make it smaller (denser) to fit in the coil.

Several rules of thumb:

1. With your mod standing on a stable surface (your desk or whatever) Thread in the twisted tip and grab the end. Now take your hand off the mod as you pull in the wick. If your mod moves it's too thick.

2. If you taste any cotton, even on the first hit it's too thick.

3. Short tails are king. You want very small tails protruding from each side of the coil in a dripper (+/- 1/8"). Longer tails only allow juice to preheat before it slowly reaches the coil. This greatly changes the flavor profiles of many juices. Fresh juice, applied more often equals a MUCH better vape.

 

[Gummy Bare]

Nice tips man. I'm still messing with it and trying different builds out to see what's works the best for what atty.

I'm thinking of trying out a dripper build with the Japanese cotton pads threw the coil with short tales, then a small bed (not to much) of organice cotton balls under it. Not sure if it would just function the same as the pads with long tales, or if it would function more similar to a cotton pad build with short tales, but hold a bit more juice.

:: sent from android with tapatalk ::

 

[anavidfan]

Does it wick well or is it maybe filtering out the coffee flavour. I noticed on my thick really sediment filled NET tobaccos it does mute the flavour.

Ive come to the conclusion that its not muting the flavour its not adding the flavour I got from the silica.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Yes, KGD (and most likely it's similar competitors) is the best cotton I've ever used.

The most important thing to remember when using this type of cotton is to not densify the wick by twisting it. ...

Now just hold on one cotton packin' minute here…LOL

I'm not quite sure about this just yet supe. <scratchin' noggin'>

I know I'm all about ribbin' on folks to stop kinkin' their Nextel and other wicks, and that's the truth. So don't start chucklin' it up on me. You really don't want to start compressing the middle after a good dinner tightenin' up the belt a couple of notches. No sir.

But thinkin' on it a while supe, what kind of compression are we talking about? It's pressure across the grain.

I believe the more directional the fibers are the more capable of directional compression that a wick can handle. If true, then the directional properties are a huge asset to control the flow rate with respect to the watts and wind (resistance) that we apply.

Example, on the Immo I posted about yesterday and in other small bed drippers I've been doubling up the instinctive amount of cotton you and I have both been using (I use the leads as a guide, any significant bend/coil orientation is the limit). And mostly I don't wind below 28 AWG (or equiv. twisted, parallel) so that lead deflection limit is low. Yet I actually had been going the downside (less is better) with JC because of it's directional properties. And yes, the result has been outstanding. But a bit airy supe, diffused.

Just to put things in perspective, I did find a pic of my split-wick bunnies to give you an idea of the usual density I put in an Immo. And it's rather loose. As I said, when deflection begins…

The traditional principle of limiting the cotton volume based on resistance at the coil doesn't seem to apply to JC. The Immo example contained a roughly 3/4" strand of 3/8" width (which you know is almost 1/4" thick, snipped from 1" length) divided into two bi-directional wicks in the 2.38mm coil. A total of 3/8" of cotton! The tensioned adhered flat-wire held together despite the thickness, albeit delicately inserted from two sides. It had to be lightly rolled, firmly compressed and slightly twisted to pass through. But almost double the density of what I would have considered the prudent maximum with regular cotton. What would have thoroughly clogged it, I think from past experience.

Instead, I'm seeing a density of vapor closer to some of the best cotton experiences, best builds, with a notable neutrality and richness they lacked. It took forcing the wick to a slightly higher flow rate with the coil efficiency and some compression. Just to mention here that the res. is 1.03Ω as I recall, about the lowest I've run on an Immo. All told supe through about a half dozen builds on small bed rda's like the Igo-W, Nimbus and Helios with this test so far. But no early demise of the wicks either. In fact I'm enjoying them a bit longer which is a splendid surprise.

So I'm not too sure we can't be a little more liberal with our cotton here, at least on some drippers and rebuildables. Even as the above case seems to be the upper end if not the limit. 'Nother words I really packed it dude.



Good luck.

 

[havok333]

Now just hold on one cotton packin' minute here…LOL

I'm not quite sure about this just yet supe. <scratchin' noggin'>

I know I'm all about ribbin' on folks to stop kinkin' their Nextel and other wicks, and that's the truth. So don't start chucklin' it up on me. You really don't want to start compressing the middle after a good dinner tightenin' up the belt a couple of notches. No sir.

But thinkin' on it a while supe, what kind of compression are we talking about? It's pressure across the grain.

I believe the more directional the fibers are the more capable of directional compression that a wick can handle. If true, then the directional properties are a huge asset to control the flow rate with respect to the watts and wind (resistance) that we apply.

Example, on the Immo I posted about yesterday and in other small bed drippers I've been doubling up the instinctive amount of cotton you and I have both been using (I use the leads as a guide, any significant bend/coil orientation is the limit). And mostly I don't wind below 28 AWG (or equiv. twisted, parallel) so that lead deflection limit is low. Yet I actually had been going the downside (less is better) with JC because of it's directional properties. And yes, the result has been outstanding. But a bit airy supe, diffused.

Just to put things in perspective, I did find a pic of my split-wick bunnies to give you an idea of the usual density I put in an Immo. And it's rather loose. As I said, when deflection begins…

The traditional principle of limiting the cotton volume based on resistance at the coil doesn't seem to apply to JC. The Immo example contained a roughly 3/4" strand of 3/8" width (which you know is almost 1/4" thick, snipped from 1" length) divided into two bi-directional wicks in the 2.38mm coil. A total of 3/8" of cotton! The tensioned adhered flat-wire held together despite the thickness, albeit delicately inserted from two sides. It had to be lightly rolled, firmly compressed and slightly twisted to pass through. But almost double the density of what I would have considered the prudent maximum with regular cotton. What would have thoroughly clogged it, I think from past experience.

Instead, I'm seeing a density of vapor closer to some of the best cotton experiences, best builds, with a notable neutrality and richness they lacked. It took forcing the wick to a slightly higher flow rate with the coil efficiency and some compression. Just to mention here that the res. is 1.03Ω as I recall, about the lowest I've run on an Immo. All told supe through about a half dozen builds on small bed rda's like the Igo-W, Nimbus and Helios with this test so far. But no early demise of the wicks either. In fact I'm enjoying them a bit longer which is a splendid surprise.

So I'm not too sure we can't be a little more liberal with our cotton here, at least on some drippers and rebuildables. Even as the above case seems to be the upper end if not the limit. 'Nother words I really packed it dude.



Good luck.

Yes, that is definitely what we referred to in my old neighborhood.."a .... load" of cotton in that coil!

Your reasoning does make sense, and your testimonial to performance has inspired me to give it a shot when I get home tonight. Needed to rewick the IGO-W anyway, so may as well give it a shot and report back. Thanks for the idea!

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[MacTechVpr]

Yes, that is definitely what we referred to in my old neighborhood.."a .... load" of cotton in that coil!

Your reasoning does make sense, and your testimonial to performance has inspired me to give it a shot when I get home tonight. Needed to rewick the IGO-W anyway, so may as well give it a shot and report back. Thanks for the idea!

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Thanks for the comeback. Mind you the above is not the build I was describing to supe with KGD. That…is my typical organic cotton ball build. You'll notice it's not compressed or sized at all! It's pulled tight to squeeze it into 2.38mm. Then split in the tails. The reason is I separate and layer them around the inside in that uncompressed state: Works great and doesn't have to be fed in the middle of the night.

The KGD build if you followed the explanation is quite a bit tighter and the compression does form the KGD into something that more resembles, well…a wick. LOL

Also I build tensioned micro/macro coils, including flat wire. No torching, they're drawn on a pin vise until adhesion with stretch and pulsed into joined oxidation. The advantage is a cooler coil. No temperature rifts or high temperature spikes which many believe is a good vape. In fact I believe, it's just heating the air. All the high temperature point spikes do is revaporize or diffuse vapor generated elsewhere on the coil. A tension coil has superior temperature stratification. This I believe and many who have tried it produces more uniform and effective vaporization at whatever the given resistance. That's the coil configuration I'm testing with KGD.

But the wick method is effective with conventional micro's as well and like I said, beats feedin' the thing constantly. Better than the Eko/Nextel infinity wicks I was using before with better vapor results.

Try tension Havok if you haven't. I particular like my tensioned parallels at about 4.5-5.0Ω. Produces more like 3.0Ω and the denser vaper amazingly is described my many as "cold", not "cool, "cold". No menthol applied.



Good luck

 

[super_X_drifter]

Now just hold on one cotton packin' minute here…LOL

I'm not quite sure about this just yet supe. <scratchin' noggin'>

I know I'm all about ribbin' on folks to stop kinkin' their Nextel and other wicks, and that's the truth. So don't start chucklin' it up on me. You really don't want to start compressing the middle after a good dinner tightenin' up the belt a couple of notches. No sir.

But thinkin' on it a while supe, what kind of compression are we talking about? It's pressure across the grain.

I believe the more directional the fibers are the more capable of directional compression that a wick can handle. If true, then the directional properties are a huge asset to control the flow rate with respect to the watts and wind (resistance) that we apply.

Example, on the Immo I posted about yesterday and in other small bed drippers I've been doubling up the instinctive amount of cotton you and I have both been using (I use the leads as a guide, any significant bend/coil orientation is the limit). And mostly I don't wind below 28 AWG (or equiv. twisted, parallel) so that lead deflection limit is low. Yet I actually had been going the downside (less is better) with JC because of it's directional properties. And yes, the result has been outstanding. But a bit airy supe, diffused.

Just to put things in perspective, I did find a pic of my split-wick bunnies to give you an idea of the usual density I put in an Immo. And it's rather loose. As I said, when deflection begins…

The traditional principle of limiting the cotton volume based on resistance at the coil doesn't seem to apply to JC. The Immo example contained a roughly 3/4" strand of 3/8" width (which you know is almost 1/4" thick, snipped from 1" length) divided into two bi-directional wicks in the 2.38mm coil. A total of 3/8" of cotton! The tensioned adhered flat-wire held together despite the thickness, albeit delicately inserted from two sides. It had to be lightly rolled, firmly compressed and slightly twisted to pass through. But almost double the density of what I would have considered the prudent maximum with regular cotton. What would have thoroughly clogged it, I think from past experience.

Instead, I'm seeing a density of vapor closer to some of the best cotton experiences, best builds, with a notable neutrality and richness they lacked. It took forcing the wick to a slightly higher flow rate with the coil efficiency and some compression. Just to mention here that the res. is 1.03Ω as I recall, about the lowest I've run on an Immo. All told supe through about a half dozen builds on small bed rda's like the Igo-W, Nimbus and Helios with this test so far. But no early demise of the wicks either. In fact I'm enjoying them a bit longer which is a splendid surprise.

So I'm not too sure we can't be a little more liberal with our cotton here, at least on some drippers and rebuildables. Even as the above case seems to be the upper end if not the limit. 'Nother words I really packed it dude.



Good luck.

For my application, where I'm not relying on wick to transport juice to the coil, rather just hold it for a few seconds while my coil vaporizes it, I find that anything beyond mild compression affects the vape in a negative way.

It was different with the CVS sterile rolled though - I preferred a denser wick with it.

Same with tails - in my application, where fresh juice is only a squeeze of an onboard bottle away, excess tails do nothing to increase vape quality or amount of time between reloading. All I've observed them to do is store juice, allowing it to pre cook before it gets to the coil. I analogize it to be the same as going to the store and getting 12 gallons of milk when I only use 3 a week. Yeah I could have the convenience of all that milk but would I wanna drink it when it became time to drink, say, gallon 7?

It'd be interesting to hear how others are getting on with both natural density (clipped off the pad to be the same or a hair wider than your coil ) and mechanically densified (twisted to fit your coil from a fatter piece) KGD wicks

 

[MacTechVpr]

For my application, where I'm not relying on wick to transport juice to the coil, rather just hold it for a few seconds while my coil vaporizes it, I find that anything beyond mild compression affects the vape in a negative way.

It was different with the CVS sterile rolled though - I preferred a denser wick with it.

Same with tails - in my application, where fresh juice is only a squeeze of an onboard bottle away, excess tails do nothing to increase vape quality or amount of time between reloading. All I've observed them to do is store juice, allowing it to pre cook before it gets to the coil. I analogize it to be the same as going to the store and getting 12 gallons of milk when I only use 3 a week. Yeah I could have the convenience of all that milk but would I wanna drink it when it became time to drink, say, gallon 7?

It'd be interesting to hear how others are getting on with both natural density (clipped off the pad to be the same or a hair wider than your coil ) and mechanically densified (twisted to fit your coil from a fatter piece) KGD wicks

Gotta tell ya supe, I am thoroughly diggin' this Immo on KGD. I cannot put the damn thing down. Went through my juice allocation by lunch time.

Storing juice is certainly the objective behind the fat uncompressed tails in that Immo build. I can't speak to the precook observation though. Perhaps I don't retain my cotton installs long enough. I pull them or tear down as soon as I start detecting pigment buildup. No sense to me tolerating a mediocre vape when it takes seconds to replace. Now mind you supe I got way too many up at any time so I'm always lookin' for an excuse.

So got that first paragraph for sure. Too thick in your scenario yields poor production. You have the right wick/wind ratio and stable supply. You're achieving excellent vaporization with a relatively low density. But stated differently in that example, you've controlled production. And that is exactly what I was alluding to. Controlling the cotton density is equivalent.

Understand, I'm running a ZNA. And the Immo has always been the intended device for it. Being able to target a flow characteristic is inconceivable with ordinary cotton. No way to reasonably predict it. This is very, very appealing for those of us who don't believe that flavor vapor objectives must be necessarily met below 1.0Ω. And I'll devote some effort to this. This cotton may be ideal for high power variables.

I'm diggin' the idea, and…groovin' on the result.

Gotta go! Need to batch some more.

Good luck.

 

[Rule62]

For my application, where I'm not relying on wick to transport juice to the coil, rather just hold it for a few seconds while my coil vaporizes it, I find that anything beyond mild compression affects the vape in a negative way.

It was different with the CVS sterile rolled though - I preferred a denser wick with it.

Same with tails - in my application, where fresh juice is only a squeeze of an onboard bottle away, excess tails do nothing to increase vape quality or amount of time between reloading. All I've observed them to do is store juice, allowing it to pre cook before it gets to the coil. I analogize it to be the same as going to the store and getting 12 gallons of milk when I only use 3 a week. Yeah I could have the convenience of all that milk but would I wanna drink it when it became time to drink, say, gallon 7?

It'd be interesting to hear how others are getting on with both natural density (clipped off the pad to be the same or a hair wider than your coil ) and mechanically densified (twisted to fit your coil from a fatter piece) KGD wicks

I'm getting the best results with the KGD by not compressing the cotton at all. I cut a very thin strip, about the size of the coil, and just twist the end enough to start it through the coil. I used to get away with twisting cotton ball cotton, and sort of 'screwing' it through the coil; but not with the KGD. IMO, the KGD works best when it's handled as little as possible.

 

[super_X_drifter]

I'm getting the best results with the KGD by not compressing the cotton at all. I cut a very thin strip, about the size of the coil, and just twist the end enough to start it through the coil. I used to get away with twisting cotton ball cotton, and sort of 'screwing' it through the coil; but not with the KGD. IMO, the KGD works best when it's handled as little as possible.

^ Word on that ^ Right there ^

 

[Borescoped]

Quick question then. When utilizing a Mundy Magic microcoil, how does one avoid all the snag ups with KGD passing over the convoluted surface of the MM? Regular cotton ball cotton catches enough as is when being careful. I was just curious about this, haven't gotten any KGD yet, figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

I find KGD easier to pull through due to the fibers being more in line. For me MM needs a little more cotton than a round wire coil of the same ID. I hold against the end of the coil with a jewelers screwdriver. If it gets difficult (but not enough to deform the coil) then that is my sweet spot.

YMMV <==cop out

 

[havok333]

Gotta tell ya supe, I am thoroughly diggin' this Immo on KGD. I cannot put the damn thing down. Went through my juice allocation by lunch time.

Storing juice is certainly the objective behind the fat uncompressed tails in that Immo build. I can't speak to the precook observation though. Perhaps I don't retain my cotton installs long enough. I pull them or tear down as soon as I start detecting pigment buildup. No sense to me tolerating a mediocre vape when it takes seconds to replace. Now mind you supe I got way too many up at any time so I'm always lookin' for an excuse.

So got that first paragraph for sure. Too thick in your scenario yields poor production. You have the right wick/wind ratio and stable supply. You're achieving excellent vaporization with a relatively low density. But stated differently in that example, you've controlled production. And that is exactly what I was alluding to. Controlling the cotton density is equivalent.

Understand, I'm running a ZNA. And the Immo has always been the intended device for it. Being able to target a flow characteristic is inconceivable with ordinary cotton. No way to reasonably predict it. This is very, very appealing for those of us who don't believe that flavor vapor objectives must be necessarily met below 1.0Ω. And I'll devote some effort to this. This cotton may be ideal for high power variables.

I'm diggin' the idea, and…groovin' on the result.

Gotta go! Need to batch some more.

Good luck.

Yes, I agree about the tension winding. For a while, I'd been just wrapping on a 1/16 drill bit by hand but kept careful watch on the "micro thread". I got a coil winding gizmo and also one of these:

The latter I can get pretty good tension with and not have to heat/compress the microcoil. Work pretty good and I can do the wind from the couch (WIN!)

The main thing I want to try is compressing the wick (not twisting) which I've been avoiding. Should be kinda like making the lanes of a highway closer together and skinnier so you can have more lanes in the same size highway. Just have to make sure I don't choke the highway completely like that wreck on the way in to work yesterday morning.

I have high hopes because of how the cotton fibers all run the same way on a pad of Shiseido cotton. Quite unlike an unruly cotton balls that have anarchist fibers that refuse conformity standards.

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[ElConquistador]

Another option is shiseido cotton pads. I bought mine at a Sephora inside the local J.C. Penney's store (well, I had my wife buy it so the ladies at the store wouldn't think I was a sissy or something). I haven't compared it to the KGD cotton, but I CAN say it's good stuff, and I highly recommend it.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Yes, I agree about the tension winding. For a while, I'd been just wrapping on a 1/16 drill bit by hand but kept careful watch on the "micro thread". I got a coil winding gizmo and also one of these:

The latter I can get pretty good tension with and not have to heat/compress the microcoil. Work pretty good and I can do the wind from the couch (WIN!)

The main thing I want to try is compressing the wick (not twisting) which I've been avoiding. Should be kinda like making the lanes of a highway closer together and skinnier so you can have more lanes in the same size highway. Just have to make sure I don't choke the highway completely like that wreck on the way in to work yesterday morning.

I have high hopes because of how the cotton fibers all run the same way on a pad of Shiseido cotton. Quite unlike an unruly cotton balls that have anarchist fibers that refuse conformity standards.

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That's good havoc. I wonder at times if everybody's successfully getting to adhesion with all these winding methods and apparatus. Wish I could give you all the live demo I give locally. I do know for sure, once you have adhesion you will definitely know it in your vape, your batt consumption and production. Ironically, since the point I introduced tension in my lessons here and in person I'm vaping more than ever. My mod collection has exploded, I won't talk about my juice bill or my unavoidable imperative to down-nic to survive. It's been a very rewarding challenge, lol. I just hope folks are enjoying it as much as I am pleased by sharing this with others. I'm humbled by so many of you and your own amazing and proliferating discoveries. Thank you all for trying.

Enjoy the vape and good luck.

 

[havok333]

Compressing the Shiseido wicks just isn't giving as much flavor as not compressing. It's not a huge difference but the uncompressed is definitely better for flavor. Mind you this was testing on dual parallels, measuring in at a scant 0.37 ohms. Gave both wicks a good day of testing each. Maybe the reverse would be true up around 3.0 ohms but I don't have any high wattage devices (yet) to vape effectively with that high a resistance. When my new gear comes in I might revisit this though for "educational purposes". [emoji1]

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[anavidfan]

BTW, I dont know how I over looked this one VERY important fact in this post.

THANK YOU to super_X_drifter, I had given up on the whole cotton thing, and I could not understand the whole cotton craze before seeing your video on how to properly use the Koh Gen DO. I also have to say THANK YOU , sweetie to Cucco who sent me a generous 4 pads to try out.

It changed my opinion on cotton. Im sure that that the other such organic cotton pads, be they the Shiseido , Muji, Serena etc are pretty close too.

 

[Wow1420]

I'm too cheap to pay the outrageous shipping charge that places wanted for the KGD. So I got Selena brand cotton from Amazon http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00260T94K/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I don't have experience with many other types organic cotton to make comparisons, but I like it. No horrible wet sock taste like I got from regular cotton balls.

 

[anavidfan]

The serena was very good and almost identical to the KGD. Only slight difference I found is that the Serena is a tiny bit less dense and a touch and I mean a touch more shred prone?

If you do want to try out the KGD, if you order from Barneys and I think Sephora and the Dermstore its 12.00 and free shipping and fast. If you order from Barneys you get such luxurious packaging. It comes in a large fancy box, wrapped in gift wrap tissue with a seal...... silly but it was like getting a present.

Yeah the KGD was available from Amazon then it sold like hotcakes and then the only suppliers either charged double the price and the shipping from Japan is ridiculous.

OH, yes.... that wet sock cotton taste is what kept me from the cotton craze. I kept trying sterile cotton, surgical cotton , Q-tip tips, rolled cotton all had a taste. I use as my main vape, a very light 50/50 mix with a suggestion of peppermint. If there is added taste from the wicks , I taste it. Only other cotton I used that was even cleaner than the KGD, was surgical cotton gauze pads. It worked well on the KFL and little drippers but trying to get gauze in my Odysseus coils was hard and then if I did not have the amount just right, my Ody would leak.

I was an avid "fan" of EKOwool, Clean, and sooooooo rugged and cost efficient. I could use it and use it again at least 6 times. It had a temporary "taste" when brand new, but it went away after about half a ml. Neutral on the reuses.