I have seen posts with people saying they are using titanium coils with TC and would really like to see some opinions. I am about to purchase some 24g and 28g Pure Titanium Grade 1 wire and want to see if it is really worth it and is better than ni200.
DNA 40 and Titanium
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my first couple of builds were with NI200, it worked .....then i discovered TI and like it much better...i'm using 30ga doubled and twisted in my drill and it's much easier to work with and no leg breakage also the resistance holds...plus you can build with it on any atty no hex screws required.....have played with several builds, rite now i'm using a 7wrap single coil w/rayon that comes out at .24 and it's rocking......also might add i'm using a Hanna NO logo clone.....as for temp control it also works just fine but you have to lower the temp by 80 to 100 degrees.....play w/it till you find what works for you...enjoy the 
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/temperature-control/658274-temperature-controlled-wire.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/temperature-control/658274-temperature-controlled-wire.html
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my first couple of builds were with NI200, it worked .....then i discovered TI and like it much better...i'm using 30ga doubled and twisted in my drill and it's much easier to work with and no leg breakage also the resistance holds...plus you can build with it on any atty no hex screws required.....have played with several builds, rite now i'm using a 7wrap single coil w/rayon that comes out at .24 and it's rocking......also might add i'm using a Hanna NO logo clone.....as for temp control it also works just fine but you have to lower the temp by 80 to 100 degrees.....play w/it till you find what works for you...enjoy the
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/temperature-control/658274-temperature-controlled-wire.html
Thanks for the info. So from what I've read in that thread, the temp reading is not accurate. I guess I may just stick with ni200. I have some tempered 28g coming in so I'll see how that goes instead.
the temp readings are accurate, TI wire just requires a lower temp setting and the wire holds up alot longer then NI200.....good luck
the temp readings are accurate, TI wire just requires a lower temp setting and the wire holds up alot longer then NI200.....good luck
Im not sure you are right. The temp readings are not 'accurate' as the device is calibrated for Ni not Ti. I also doubt the slope of the temp coefficient of resistance curve is the same for both, so the adjustment increment will be different at lower vs higher temperatures. At least thats how it seems to me! Anyway it clearly works great. I have some 24g on order!
if i turn the ti wire on 450 it burns the wick, 380 and it's fine, so who knows....i'm sticking with the TI...plus the TI is much better to work with and it sure last alot longer than NI.....that's my story and i'm sticking to it 
if i turn the ti wire on 450 it burns the wick, 380 and it's fine, so who knows....i'm sticking with the TI...plus the TI is much better to work with and it sure last alot longer than NI.....that's my story and i'm sticking to it
Hi Sando7
wasn't being awkward. I know Ti needs to be fired at lower temp but I think thats because is has different resistance characteristics to Ni and the data on board the chip are for Ni! I reckon if Ti takes off, we might start to see units turning up where you can choose between Ni, Ti, Ag, SS, niobium (lol) etc! It would surely be easy to do!
that would be nice and i do understand your opinion, your suggestion is something i would like to see with different pure wire....no offence taken my bro.
If you want to determine the exact coefficient of YOUR Ti wire, there is a simple procedure you can do:
1. Determine your atty's TC capability (read as knowing how much resistance it adds to a build, if any):
Make a ni200 coil (for example 10 wraps, 3mm), wick it with cotton/rayon/whatever. Check the resistance. Set temperature to 400F/200C. Soak the wick in tap water. Fire the atty and check temperature. It should lock on 212F/100C or a value really near (depending on altitude). Repeat the test 2 or 3 times just to be sure. Mine usually jumps between 99C and 100C at sea level. If your readings are way off, you have a build or contact issue. Recheck everything.
a) the read temperature was 100C/212F.
b) the read temperature was a little above or below that value.
2. Build your Ti coil. Once built, wick it and check your resistance, set something like 300F/150C and, once again, soak your wick in tap water. Fire the atty. It should now read something around 159F/71C but it might vary according to the coefficient of your fire. For demonstration purposes, imagine you get 166F/75C
3. Download the spreadsheet that is here somewhere on ECF regarding Ti vs Ni200 temperature readings (do a search, its out there somewhere). Once you have it, open it and you should see that the used coefficients (0.006 for Ni200 and 0.0038 for Ti). Now lookup up the line that reads 212F on nickel and you will see that the Ti coefficient gives 159F/71C. However, in our example, our previous test gave 166F/75C. So now you start playing with the Ti coefficient on the right side until you can match the ni200 reading you got in #1 with the Ti reading you got in #2. In our example, it would be 0.0041
4. Knowing the new coefficient, you can now read from the table all equivalencies you want. For example, you prefered vape with ni200 was 410F... on YOUR Ti build, you will need to set the temperature around 302F. Obviously this is only an example. If your coefficient ends being 0.0045, then ni200 440F are Ti 350F but it should put you in the ball park pretty easily.
In the end, you can do it the caveman way i.e. set it to 300F and slowly ramp up your temperature until you get the vape you like but if you use the above way, you'll be able to answer if someone asks you "at what temperature are you vaping?"
Hope this helps.
Regards
Tony
1. Determine your atty's TC capability (read as knowing how much resistance it adds to a build, if any):
Make a ni200 coil (for example 10 wraps, 3mm), wick it with cotton/rayon/whatever. Check the resistance. Set temperature to 400F/200C. Soak the wick in tap water. Fire the atty and check temperature. It should lock on 212F/100C or a value really near (depending on altitude). Repeat the test 2 or 3 times just to be sure. Mine usually jumps between 99C and 100C at sea level. If your readings are way off, you have a build or contact issue. Recheck everything.
a) the read temperature was 100C/212F.
b) the read temperature was a little above or below that value.
2. Build your Ti coil. Once built, wick it and check your resistance, set something like 300F/150C and, once again, soak your wick in tap water. Fire the atty. It should now read something around 159F/71C but it might vary according to the coefficient of your fire. For demonstration purposes, imagine you get 166F/75C
3. Download the spreadsheet that is here somewhere on ECF regarding Ti vs Ni200 temperature readings (do a search, its out there somewhere). Once you have it, open it and you should see that the used coefficients (0.006 for Ni200 and 0.0038 for Ti). Now lookup up the line that reads 212F on nickel and you will see that the Ti coefficient gives 159F/71C. However, in our example, our previous test gave 166F/75C. So now you start playing with the Ti coefficient on the right side until you can match the ni200 reading you got in #1 with the Ti reading you got in #2. In our example, it would be 0.0041
4. Knowing the new coefficient, you can now read from the table all equivalencies you want. For example, you prefered vape with ni200 was 410F... on YOUR Ti build, you will need to set the temperature around 302F. Obviously this is only an example. If your coefficient ends being 0.0045, then ni200 440F are Ti 350F but it should put you in the ball park pretty easily.
In the end, you can do it the caveman way i.e. set it to 300F and slowly ramp up your temperature until you get the vape you like but if you use the above way, you'll be able to answer if someone asks you "at what temperature are you vaping?"
Hope this helps.
Regards
Tony
If you want to determine the exact coefficient of YOUR Ti wire, there is a simple procedure you can do:
1. Determine your atty's TC capability (read as knowing how much resistance it adds to a build, if any):
Make a ni200 coil (for example 10 wraps, 3mm), wick it with cotton/rayon/whatever. Check the resistance. Set temperature to 400F/200C. Soak the wick in tap water. Fire the atty and check temperature. It should lock on 212F/100C or a value really near (depending on altitude). Repeat the test 2 or 3 times just to be sure. Mine usually jumps between 99C and 100C at sea level. If your readings are way off, you have a build or contact issue. Recheck everything.
a) the read temperature was 100C/212F.
b) the read temperature was a little above or below that value.
2. Build your Ti coil. Once built, wick it and check your resistance, set something like 300F/150C and, once again, soak your wick in tap water. Fire the atty. It should now read something around 159F/71C but it might vary according to the coefficient of your fire. For demonstration purposes, imagine you get 166F/75C
3. Download the spreadsheet that is here somewhere on ECF regarding Ti vs Ni200 temperature readings (do a search, its out there somewhere). Once you have it, open it and you should see that the used coefficients (0.006 for Ni200 and 0.0038 for Ti). Now lookup up the line that reads 212F on nickel and you will see that the Ti coefficient gives 159F/71C. However, in our example, our previous test gave 166F/75C. So now you start playing with the Ti coefficient on the right side until you can match the ni200 reading you got in #1 with the Ti reading you got in #2. In our example, it would be 0.0041
4. Knowing the new coefficient, you can now read from the table all equivalencies you want. For example, you prefered vape with ni200 was 410F... on YOUR Ti build, you will need to set the temperature around 302F. Obviously this is only an example. If your coefficient ends being 0.0045, then ni200 440F are Ti 350F but it should put you in the ball park pretty easily.
In the end, you can do it the caveman way i.e. set it to 300F and slowly ramp up your temperature until you get the vape you like but if you use the above way, you'll be able to answer if someone asks you "at what temperature are you vaping?"
Hope this helps.
Regards
Tony
Nice one my friend! Using H2O to calibrate is very clever, and that is coming from a practising research scientist! Simple now I think of it myself - Lol!
Thank you. The original idea of using water to check a ni200 build came from HolmanGT. From there it was just a small step to do the same with a Ti build and calculate the resulting offset.
Regards
Tony
Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.
Me Grog, have big club, drag women back to cave by hair.
Your method determines average TCR in the range between room temperature and the boiling point of water, call it 20-100C, but vaping temperature is another ~100C higher than that. What makes you think TCR is constant over that entire range? Oh and anyone who lives in the mountains should probably take the decreased BP of water at their altitude into account.
I tried using an FLIR camera when I first started playing with Ti last October. It leaves much to be desired for targets as small as our coils, plus there's the whole question of emissivity. To do this right, I think we need a tiny, non-conductive temperature sensor.
You're right but it's better than nothing. The caveman method will put you at the same level regardless.Me Grog, have big club, drag women back to cave by hair.
Your method determines average TCR in the range between room temperature and the boiling point of water, call it 20-100C, but vaping temperature is another ~100C higher than that. What makes you think TCR is constant over that entire range? Oh and anyone who lives in the mountains should probably take the decreased BP of water at their altitude into account.
I tried using an FLIR camera when I first started playing with Ti last October. It leaves much to be desired for targets as small as our coils, plus there's the whole question of emissivity. To do this right, I think we need a tiny, non-conductive temperature sensor.
Regards
Tony
Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.
Me Grog, have big club, drag women back to cave by hair.
Your method determines average TCR in the range between room temperature and the boiling point of water, call it 20-100C, but vaping temperature is another ~100C higher than that. What makes you think TCR is constant over that entire range? Oh and anyone who lives in the mountains should probably take the decreased BP of water at their altitude into account.
I tried using an FLIR camera when I first started playing with Ti last October. It leaves much to be desired for targets as small as our coils, plus there's the whole question of emissivity. To do this right, I think we need a tiny, non-conductive temperature sensor.
It would, of course,be extrapolation from a single point but with the knowledge of the difference in slope of the dR/dT line (I guess this is the temp coefficient of resistance!), should be able to get approximately right for all temps. I assume the relationship is linear for Ni and Ti at the temperatures we are working at of course! QED lol
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Wow! Got my 24g Ti just. This stuff is a dream to build with (24g). I swear you could wrap a pretty decent coil without a mandrel if you had to! Excellent
If the low range of the TCR is such a concern, one could soak the wick in pure pg and take a temperature reading and compare it to pg's boiling point. Heck you could do the same using isopropyl alcohol (70C boiling point) and then you would have 3 references across a wide range of temperatures.It would, of course,be extrapolation from a single point but with the knowledge of the difference in slope of the dR/dT line (I guess this is the temp coefficient of resistance!), should be able to get approximately right for all temps. I assume the relationship is linear for Ni and Ti at the temperatures we are working at of course! QED lol
In the end, it's only an academic experiment. It will vape well regardless... I hope!
I have 30, 29 and 28 Awg on order. The 30 and 28 Awg ones are certified ASTM F-67. The 29 is... Who knows lol.
I'm glad you're happy with your 24g
Regards
Tony
Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.
TheothersteveS my experience was similar to yours. The 24ga wire I bought from Gallium Source via Amazon came annealed, and was a pleasure to handwrap with.
I have 28ga and 30ga from a different vendor (UnkamenSupplies on Etsy) which is super springy until you heat it. If I heat it until it loses its springiness, it then becomes too brittle to wrap around a mandrel.
I have 28ga and 30ga from a different vendor (UnkamenSupplies on Etsy) which is super springy until you heat it. If I heat it until it loses its springiness, it then becomes too brittle to wrap around a mandrel.
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