E Cigarette sales rapidly lose steam - WSJ

[AndriaD]

Very debatable topic you bring up here, in terms of reflecting reality.

As it relates to this topic, if everyone has varying degree of ANTZ in them, then it really does seem like reality is "we are doing this to ourselves." But if the point is only about who created FSPTCA, called that to a vote and determined that would be method to make all subsequent decisions, then I understand/agree with your point.

Off topic, though not much, is idea of voting playing the role it does. If I do not vote (in national elections), and agree with G. Carlin when he said I'm not part of what made the problem that we have in politics today, therefore all you who are (and did), then you all can't possibly be part of the solution. Saying that, I think gets the ire of vote-happy people, who don't want to have things framed that way. In fact, refuse to have it framed that way. But, I think it speaks directly to some of what you're bringing up.

This is very very short version of the what I find debatable. Would help if we could establish what 'reality' actually is, but as that just gets way too convoluted, I chose to stick with the political reality, and make points I find reasonable in relation to shared responsibility.

Btw, us who don't vote are the majority.

I always try to vote for the person I think best represents my own views -- unfortunately, a) politicians are great liars, and b) sometimes my views are misguided, as I've come to find in the liberal/conservative faceoff -- what I actually *want* is not often clearly framed by those running for office, which leads me to misguided choices. And they're such good liars, that it really doesn't matter what they *say*, they're going to end up working for whichever corporation or lobby group pays them the most, and to hell with their constituents.

Andria

 

[Kent C]

Off topic, though not much, is idea of voting playing the role it does. If I do not vote......I'm not part of what made the problem that we have in politics today,

It is off topic, and I'll only point out a few things - not entirely encompassing the subject and have no more to say on the subject.

Like 'crimes of omission' where not acting allows a harm to occur - if you have a gun (vote) or refuse to have a gun, and someone enters your house and kills loved ones - is your 'non-committal' view valid?

If you are accused of a crime, will you chose not to hire (vote for) a lawyer in the case and let the proceedings continue without representation? I understand that you could represent yourself, but then you are still choosing representation vs. not voting where you yourself are not running for office.

Again, there is a lot more to the issue but not something I care to or is appropriate to discuss here.

 

[Jman8]

Nice non sequiturs. Glad you aren't up for further discussion.

 

[Kent C]

I suspect others get the point and I didn't expect you to - you never do unless it is 100% in agreement with your view. 99% - nope. lol

 

[Jman8]

I suspect others get the point and I didn't expect you to - you never do unless it is 100% in agreement with your view. 99% - nope. lol

And an ad hominem to boot. Anything else you wish to not discuss. LOL.

 

[Kent C]

And an ad hominem to boot. Anything else you wish to not discuss. LOL.

I avoid ad nauseum.

 

[JavaJunkie]

You guys bring up a good point. This could be a flaw in the data itself rather than the data collection means.

Analogs -- buy lighter (not tracked) and buy consumable cigarettes (tracked)
E-cigs -- buy gear (tracked?) and buy juice, coils, wire, wick material, batteries, meters, pliers (not tracked?)

My hardware purchases have almost died this year. As a household, we purchased 6 mods only because the first 3 didn't meet our needs. Two of those may have been purchased in 2014. We bought 8 atomizing devices--Subtank V1, Subtank V2 X2, Subtank Black, Subtank nano X2, Magellan rba, little boy RDA (clone or really good sale at a shop). We're no longer purchasing coil heads, but we bought a 10 pack and 20 pack of prewound coils, spools of wire, and a massive box of rayon from Sally's. And we purchased some random accessories, meters, and batteries. I have wire for years and rayon for life. My daily driver mod is getting a little clicky in the 510 so that will probably need to be replaced at some point in 2016 or 2017.

We purchased eleventybillion bottles of juice. (estimate)

None of those purchases were at a c-store or a tobacco store. None of them would be tracked and if they were tracked, would the juice have been tracked? That's my repeat purchase.

 

[B2L]

Btw, us who don't vote are the majority.

Assuming this is true, could that be a (big) part of the problem?

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice"

 

[herb]

As to the OP's first post i just don't buy into the e cig industry (the vaporizer and juice) part fading at all . I have no problem believing cigalike's have taken a fall and that many are unfulfilled by them and have returned to smoking .

Imo one of the e cig industries biggest problems is many who try cigalike's do not give up smoking because they just don't provide the experience to do so .

Another big issue is many don't search what else is available and don't know that sites like this are available. If quitting smoking is important enough to someone then i believe you will eventually succeed but if your not really determined most will just say cigalikes didn't do it for me and i gave up without further research .

Thats very unfortunate as i still see more people smoking analogs then vaping by a very large margin in my area.

 

[AndriaD]

If quitting smoking is important enough to someone then i believe you will eventually succeed but if your not really determined most will just say cigalikes didn't do it for me and i gave up without further research .

This exactly. You know why I was able to quit, using an eRoll? Because a) I didn't know it was "impossible", and b) I didn't know how much better vaping could be, than that annoying little cigalike. I upgraded on my first full day smoke-free, not because the eRoll was lacking -- it got me to quit! -- but because filling and recharging it every 5 minutes was a huge PITA.

Andria

 

[Jman8]

Assuming this is true, could that be a (big) part of the problem?

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice"

I've always made a choice (among the candidates). Not like I have one or two reasons not to vote. Last time I did a list, it was around 12 deep as to rationale for why not voting made sense. Reasons to vote were around 4. One of the reasons not to is that not everyone is eligible to vote, and yet some not eligible are often used as pawns for why voting is paramount. I find that deplorable. Or as deplorable as using those same people to justify vaping restrictions, while also having it set up so those same people cannot ever be allowed to legally purchase products.

 

[Kent C]

As to the OP's first post i just don't buy into the e cig industry (the vaporizer and juice) part fading at all .

Another big issue is many don't search what else is available and don't know that sites like this are available.

There is some information on what Bonnie Herzog from Wells Fargo calls VTM (vapor-tank-mods) but those are not tracked by Nielsen who provides stats on cigalikes. But there is some data on VTM's from vape shops, etc. How much and how valid, is another question. Here's the best take recently:

"In spite of these indications of growth, Nielsen data shows that e-cigarette sales are down 25.3% year over year across all channels, Bonnie Herzog of Wells Fargo suggests that the negative growth can be explained by the expansion of vapors, tanks, and mods (VTM), and refills, which retail lower than e-cigarettes, as well as by the challenges inherent to capturing the still evolving market, and is not indicative of an overall decline in consumers. Moreover, as Nielsen does not track online or vape shop VTM sales, there is some concern as to whether the data is an accurate measure of the market. Additionally, Ms. Herzog cautions that although Nielsen data can provide directional trends, as Nielsen does not report sales in equivalent units, the e-cigarette unit and pricing data may not be reliable.

Personal Finance Brief | Just another WordPress site - Part 4

"SLIPPERY SALES
E-cigarettes, VTMs and e-liquids have all experienced softer sales in 2015, compared to last year. In a year-to-year comparison ending the week of Aug. 8, 2015, e-cigarette dollar sales in all retail channels dropped 3.5%...

"VTM MAKES GAINS
Over the past few years, Mike Gancedo, category manager for The Parker Cos., based in Savannah, Ga., noticed a steady uptick in VTM and e-liquid sales in 38 Parker’s stores located in Georgia and South Carolina. In fact, there has been enough sustained customer interest that the company decided to develop a private label line of VTMs and e-liquids and focus less on e-cigarettes.

“We have reduced [e-cigarette] space in most locations because we have discontinued non-performing products,” he said."

Blog Page - Green Electronic Cigarettes

 

[herb]

This exactly. You know why I was able to quit, using an eRoll? Because a) I didn't know it was "impossible", and b) I didn't know how much better vaping could be, than that annoying little cigalike. I upgraded on my first full day smoke-free, not because the eRoll was lacking -- it got me to quit! -- but because filling and recharging it every 5 minutes was a huge PITA.

Andria

Very interested in this "e roll" thingy your talking about , what the he_ _ is this "e roll" if you don't mind me asking , how big are it's teeth and does it resemble a Ferret ?

 

[herb]

There is some information on what Bonnie Herzog from Wells Fargo calls VTM (vapor-tank-mods) but those are not tracked by Nielsen who provides stats on cigalikes. But there is some data on VTM's from vape shops, etc. How much and how valid, is another question. Here's the best take recently:

"In spite of these indications of growth, Nielsen data shows that e-cigarette sales are down 25.3% year over year across all channels, Bonnie Herzog of Wells Fargo suggests that the negative growth can be explained by the expansion of vapors, tanks, and mods (VTM), and refills, which retail lower than e-cigarettes, as well as by the challenges inherent to capturing the still evolving market, and is not indicative of an overall decline in consumers. Moreover, as Nielsen does not track online or vape shop VTM sales, there is some concern as to whether the data is an accurate measure of the market. Additionally, Ms. Herzog cautions that although Nielsen data can provide directional trends, as Nielsen does not report sales in equivalent units, the e-cigarette unit and pricing data may not be reliable.

Personal Finance Brief | Just another WordPress site - Part 4

"SLIPPERY SALES
E-cigarettes, VTMs and e-liquids have all experienced softer sales in 2015, compared to last year. In a year-to-year comparison ending the week of Aug. 8, 2015, e-cigarette dollar sales in all retail channels dropped 3.5%...

"VTM MAKES GAINS
Over the past few years, Mike Gancedo, category manager for The Parker Cos., based in Savannah, Ga., noticed a steady uptick in VTM and e-liquid sales in 38 Parker’s stores located in Georgia and South Carolina. In fact, there has been enough sustained customer interest that the company decided to develop a private label line of VTMs and e-liquids and focus less on e-cigarettes.

“We have reduced [e-cigarette] space in most locations because we have discontinued non-performing products,” he said."

Blog Page - Green Electronic Cigarettes

Well there you go , if you don't track online sales and sales from B&M's i would think the industry was taking a nose dive as well .


Thanks for the info

 

[Kent C]

Well there you go , if you don't track online sales and sales from B&M's i would think the industry was taking a nose dive as well .


Thanks for the info

Welcome! Again, there are some who are attempting to track VTM's but it's a lot harder than tracking cigalikes from c-stores (oft used abbreviation for 'convenience stores'), etc.

 

[herb]

Welcome! Again, there are some who are attempting to track VTM's but it's a lot harder than tracking cigalikes from c-stores, etc.

Yeah , i get it , thanks . Since stores overwhelmingly just sell cigalikes that explains it.

 

[AndriaD]

Very interested in this "e roll" thingy your talking about , what the he_ _ is this "e roll" if you don't mind me asking , how big are it's teeth and does it resemble a Ferret ?

Here's a pic of mine right next to a vv3/T3S, so you can see the size -- just *slightly* bigger than a real cigarette --

Andria

 

[nicnik]

Very interested in this "e roll" thingy your talking about , what the he_ _ is this "e roll" if you don't mind me asking , how big are it's teeth and does it resemble a Ferret ?

The eroll is the device that got me off of cigarettes. IMO, it's way better than other cigalikes. Its biggest drawback is constant recharging and refilling, as Andrea mentioned.

 

[Jman8]

I still am on eroll like device (V2 classic batts, to be exact). Been using them for around 4 years now. I don't see me changing anytime soon, but I stay open to considering alternative devices. Bought one once, and though I might change, but that didn't last for long (maybe a month).

 

[AndriaD]

The eroll is the device that got me off of cigarettes. IMO, it's way better than other cigalikes. Its biggest drawback is constant recharging and refilling, as Andria mentioned.

Also the regular deterioration of the vape -- first hit great, each succeeding hit much less so. That's why I never use any of my mechs without a Kick. Once I got that vv3, I never wanted anything but a regulated vape -- each hit is the same, until it's time to charge.

Andria