I need some research help for an article on e-cigarettes and children

[mpols]

The first thing I'm looking for statistics on second hand smoke in regards to children. I know that according to this report (page 750), smoking is estimated to kill 400 (out of 2300) infants in the US that die of SIDS each year. Any information on estimation of other deaths in children from second hand smoke would be great.

The other thing that I'm looking for is information on the death of the child from ingestion of e-juice. Something is weird about it because when I look at this data (page 137), it says that the death was from unflavored nicotine. Was the death from mixing?

About me: I don't smoke or vape. I am a health professional (naturopath and chiropractor) with patients and family members who smoke. After the Royal College of Physicians released their report, I educated (am educating?) myself on the benefits of vaping over smoking and am now an advocating it to the above patients and family members.

My first article on vaping that I've been handing to patients is here. I finished it the day before the FDA deeming came out.

 

[mpols]

I found info on the child's death here.

The bottle Eli consumed contained a mixture of liquid nicotine and diluting liquids, which Belinda Hotaling had bought online and combined to use in her electronic cigarette, according to the police investigation.

It was labelled Heartland Vapes, 100 milligrams, police said. The company, based out of Oklahoma City, is a distributor and manufacturer of eLiquids and ingredients. On the company's website, childproof caps for brown, glass bottles like the one described by police are available for sale separately from the ingredients and containers.

The cap from Belinda Hotaling's bottle was never found, police said. According to the family it was not childproof.

I was right. No flavors at all. Also, the family was making their own juice. The FDA deeming will increase incidents like this.

 

[DPLongo22]

Please forgive my cynicism, and understand that I hope you are being totally sincere, but many of us are concerned about federal "plants" trying to find information that may help them shut down the industry.

If I may be so bold, would you be willing to provide some credentials, so we might feel more comfortable with the issue? We are, by nature, a helpful group of people, and would like nothing more than to assist with such an endeavor as you present here.

But we're all a bit "stunned" right now. Please understand that, and forgive us for it. If we're able to help, and there's defined validity, you've come to the right place.

Thank you for understanding.

 

[Train2]

There's nothing I've seen specific to children and vapor...
I have seen a study that tested second-hand vapor and essentially found it approximately equivalent to the room air.

GREAT to see a medical professional supporting vaping this way - keep it up, as it is VERY helpful!

(and yes, that one sad incident, there was a bottle of concentrated nic sitting with NO CAP on a low table... which is kind of like leaving a loaded gun out, safety off... or any number of other potentially fatal things people do, that can't be blamed on a product)

 

[Bob Chill]

Another thing about the child's death is the actual cause was never made public if I remember correctly. The possibility of the child choking on the cap has been speculated on.

 

[Train2]

I was going to reply about the same - but if you explore from his linked article, you can see all the information about his practice -

Please forgive my cynicism, and understand that I hope you are being totally sincere, but many of us are concerned about federal "plants" trying to find information that may help them shut down the industry.

If I may be so bold, would you be willing to provide some credentials, so we might feel more comfortable with the issue? We are, by nature, a helpful group of people, and would like nothing more than to assist with such an endeavor as you present here.

But we're all a bit "stunned" right now. Please understand that, and forgive us for it. If we're able to help, and there's defined validity, you've come to the right place.

Thank you for understanding.

 

[daviedog]

What about the other 1900 sid cases?
What caused them?
Might that not be a better place to start?..

 

[Mazinny]

...

 

[OlderNDirt]

What about the other 1900 sid cases?
What caused them?
Might that not be a better place to start?..

I wonder what percent of "the 400" were also exposed to the same thing(s) the other 1900 were that caused/contributed to sids?

 

[mpols]

Don't .... on me. I'm trying to do some good things. I linked to my previous article on the benefits of vaping smoking. I have been giving it out to all of my patients. For my patients and family members who smoke, I've been giving out gift cards to vape shops.

Another thing about the child's death is the actual cause was never made public if I remember correctly. The possibility of the child choking on the cap has been speculated on.

It is clear from the article that I linked that the child died from an overdose of nicotine. This was not e-juice, but 100mg solution to make your own juice with.

What about the other 1900 sid cases?
What caused them?
Might that not be a better place to start?..

Because I'm comparing the deaths of non smoking children versus the deaths from e-cigarette uses between the years of Jan 2012- Dec 2014 (the last year the report has been published). With the smoking related SIDS, I'm at 1200/1. I believe it is more and I want help finding it.

We are all talking about the one kid. We are forgetting about the 1200+.

There's nothing I've seen specific to children and vapor...
I have seen a study that tested second-hand vapor and essentially found it approximately equivalent to the room air.

If you have that link, I'd appreciate it. I am more interested in the harm to children of second hand smoke though.

 

[inter_ceptor00]

All Credible Vaping Research

Just a quick search for "research papers" using the ECF search led to this thread with numerous links to all kinds of electronic cigarette and nicotine research information.

 

[UnclePsyko]

Stupid Question, and I'm full of them... but have you inquired about joining the Medical Professionals Private Forum?
There should be others there that could answer your questions.

 

[VHRB2014]

Excellent article Dr. Michael, excelent. I liked how you contrasted the effects of cigarette smoking to known events to really get the message across as it pertains to death rate.

Your article has no spin, and offers a measure of truth that should put people at ease about the subject. I only wish Washington was as all altruistic, :?(

Regards.

 

[sofarsogood]

The other thing that I'm looking for is information on the death of the child from ingestion of e-juice. Something is weird about it because when I look at this data (page 137), it says that the death was from unflavored nicotine. Was the death from mixing?

I recall a news report that claimed the baby sitter said she tried to induce vomiting. There was a request made for the death certificate. That was denied based on some NY law. Where is the toxicology report? It could be no toxicology examiniatin was done. It could be the cause of death was assumed from the coincidence of ingesting e liquid. Was e liquid ingested? Where is the toxicology report that says any amount of e liquid was detected, let alone enough to cause death. I also recall the early stories repoting the cause was premixed e liquid ready to vape. Later it became concentrate. Let's see a photo of the bottle. If this child died from ingesting e liquid it would be an all time first. Never happened previously, hasn't happened since. It's also possible the first responders made an error. This was certainly a tragic accident but there's no hard evidence that the cause of death was nicotine poisoning.

This woulld be nothing more that a tragedy except there are people who want to make political hay with it.. Now THEY better show their evidence and it better be good.

 

[budynbuick]

Don't .... on me. I'm trying to do some good things. I linked to my previous article on the benefits of vaping smoking. I have been giving it out to all of my patients. For my patients and family members who smoke, I've been giving out gift cards to vape shops.

It is clear from the article that I linked that the child died from an overdose of nicotine. This was not e-juice, but 100mg solution to make your own juice with.



Because I'm comparing the deaths of non smoking children versus the deaths from e-cigarette uses between the years of Jan 2012- Dec 2014 (the last year the report has been published). With the smoking related SIDS, I'm at 1200/1. I believe it is more and I want help finding it.

We are all talking about the one kid. We are forgetting about the 1200+.




If you have that link, I'd appreciate it. I am more interested in the harm to children of second hand smoke though.

Please don't fail to look at the MANY LITTLE BABY vaccines in your sids investigation.

 

[rico942]

I was right. No flavors at all. Also, the family was making their own juice. The FDA deeming will increase incidents like this.

I have no children, and my home is far from "child-proof". I don't allow visiting friends to let their small kids run unsupervised through my workshop area. Recently some friends dropped by with a 3 year old son who needed to use the bathroom. I took time to remove anything that could possibly cause injury, and insisted that the father stay with him ...

The OP makes an alarming point, an increase in amateur and irresponsible DIY triggered by deeming regs could lead to tragic incidents ...

Thanks, FDA ...

 

[mpols]

All Credible Vaping Research

Just a quick search for "research papers" using the ECF search led to this thread with numerous links to all kinds of electronic cigarette and nicotine research information.

Thanks, I'll go through those later. That should be helpful. If you see anything there that pertains to what I'm looking for, let me know.

Stupid Question, and I'm full of them... but have you inquired about joining the Medical Professionals Private Forum?
There should be others there that could answer your questions.

I've requested access. I have a sneaking suspicion that it's a lot more active in the general forums.

Excellent article Dr. Michael, excelent. I liked how you contrasted the effects of cigarette smoking to known events to really get the message across as it pertains to death rate.

Your article has no spin, and offers a measure of truth that should put people at ease about the subject. I only wish Washington was as all altruistic, :?(

Regards.

Right, our societal focus on the dangers of vaping is a great distraction to the real harm that smoking causes. I think that we all should talk to the non-nicotine users in our life on the benefits of harm reduction to their loved ones who smoke.

I recall a news report that claimed the baby sitter said she tried to induce vomiting. There was a request made for the death certificate. That was denied based on some NY law. Where is the toxicology report? It could be no toxicology examiniatin was done. It could be the cause of death was assumed from the coincidence of ingesting e liquid. Was e liquid ingested? Where is the toxicology report that says any amount of e liquid was detected, let alone enough to cause death. I also recall the early stories repoting the cause was premixed e liquid ready to vape. Later it became concentrate. Let's see a photo of the bottle. If this child died from ingesting e liquid it would be an all time first. Never happened previously, hasn't happened since. It's also possible the first responders made an error. This was certainly a tragic accident but there's no hard evidence that the cause of death was nicotine poisoning.

This woulld be nothing more that a tragedy except there are people who want to make political hay with it.. Now THEY better show their evidence and it better be good.

If you have something published after this article that is more up to date or complete, I'd love to have it. Until then, I will be stating that this child died from a nicotine overdose from an unflavored, industrial grade solution. I will also be comparing this to the 400+ kids that die every year from smoking.

Please don't fail to look at the MANY LITTLE BABY vaccines in your sids investigation.

2 jumbo jets are going down today from people dying from smoking. Vaccinations/SIDS relationship has nothing to do with my article and I will not include it. If the public health establishment state that 400 kids die from smoking, I'm going to use their numbers and compare it to the one child who died from an industrial grade nicotine solution.

 

[mpols]

I have no children, and my home is far from "child-proof". I don't allow visiting friends to let their small kids run unsupervised through my workshop area. Recently some friends dropped by with a 3 year old son who needed to use the bathroom. I took time to remove anything that could possibly cause injury, and insisted that the father stay with him ...

The OP makes an alarming point, an increase in amateur and irresponsible DIY triggered by deeming regs could lead to tragic incidents ...

Thanks, FDA ...

Maybe some of you can convince the diy/stockpiling crowd to start to use tamper proof seals with 100mg nicotine bottles as a part of standard practice.

 

[budynbuick]

Maybe some of you can convince the diy/stockpiling crowd to start to use tamper proof seals with 100mg nicotine bottles as a part of standard practice.

 

[Falconeer]

Quite frankly I am cynical about the OP's intentions here and personally feel the thread should be ignored....but I accept this is just me.

All I can say is that I grew up in a smoking world, smoked for 50 years and am still here at age 66.

My father lit one cigarette of of the other and somehow lived to age 72.

The conservative estimate of the medical association in Britain has said that vaping is at least 95% less harmfull than smoking.

As a smoking man I raised 4 children the oldest of whom was born in 1969 and is a Sergeant in the RAF and the youngest of whom was born 10 years after is a Psychiatric Nurse who smokes like a chimney....