Nicotine Comparisons

[YoursTruli]

And yes, I do wear nitrile gloves and eye protection when doing this. A spill needs to be cleaned up immediately and can get messy, and as a chemist, its just part of the ritual, and I feel naked, exposed and distracted without them. Had too many little spills and messes not to wear them. True, PG and VG slow dermal absorption compared to pure nic itself, and getting some on you and washing it off quickly will probably not have much of an effect, but if you are small and/or have very soft skin where it got on you, you could feel it even if you wash it off quickly. I don't like anecdotal stories of how people got it all over their hands and didn't feel anything. There are many people with compromised health, or are very small in size, who could well be strongly and negatively affected by skin exposure, and 100 mg nic is not water. And nic in the eye will burn a lot and go right to the brain.

The answer to the question "Should I REALLY wear gloves and eye protection?" is "Shut up and wear gloves and eye protection."

There, I said it.

Thank you I am glad you said this, I have wanted to for a bit now but was afraid to due to the posts here. I am small in stature with a compromised immune system, vape a low amount of nic daily and have a very negative reaction when I got 100mg nic on my skin. I was in the process of re-bottling and felt I was being very careful, wearing personal protection and did not know I had gotten any on myself until I became very flush, sweating, followed quickly by vomiting, tachycardia, dizziness ....not everyone can take a bath in this or wear clothes soaked in it for the day and be ok.

 

[tiburonfirst]

never be afraid to post here! our complacent folks need a reminder once in a while that things can and have gone wrong for others. after all, we have no idea in what physical condition people might be who come here looking for guidance.

 

[Vapntime]

Thank you I am glad you said this, I have wanted to for a bit now but was afraid to due to the posts here. I am small in stature with a compromised immune system, vape a low amount of nic daily and have a very negative reaction when I got 100mg nic on my skin. I was in the process of re-bottling and felt I was being very careful, wearing personal protection and did not know I had gotten any on myself until I became very flush, sweating, followed quickly by vomiting, tachycardia, dizziness ....not everyone can take a bath in this or wear clothes soaked in it for the day and be ok.

You might be better with this Nude Armor v2.0 Nicotine Base - EXTENDED SHELF LIFE - Nude Nicotine It is what I use, I have shaky hands and spill e-liquid, PG, VG all the time but I don't have to worry about the nicotine . It comes in a glass bottle as well!

 

[mhertz]

Ph-adjusted nic(salt form) vs normal freebase isn't nothing new, and there probably are or atleast where vendors doing it i.e. ph-adjusting nic by adding an acid like citric acid. The "idea/benefit" is that it lowers smell and pepper and is much less aromatic than normal nicbases, and of other traits also changes absorption some too... We can do it too I believe, if we don't like a nic in possesion and wants to tone it down by adding an acid to lowers it's PH...

Btw, in NN's description's of there salt-products they state pure nicotine is close to 8? I believe nicotine is 10-11 ph...

I think why tobacco-smoke is "salt-nic" is because there are acids in the leaf essentially ph-adjusting naturally...

Also read this old thread with some comments on this by Kurt: pH of unflavored nic liquid?

 

[TraderX]

I would have thought the Nic vendors would be having some super sale deals this weekend, even though tomorrow (August 8th) is not the deadline to buy nicotine. There are lots of folks in a panic about this date despite that fact. They could have really capitalized and moved product, and created some customer goodwill too.

The fact that there are no big sales is very telling indeed. The vendors don't seem to be even a tiny bit worried, which of course means that perhaps I should not be either.

 

[BuGlen]

I would have thought the Nic vendors would be having some super sale deals this weekend, even though tomorrow (August 8th) is not the deadline to buy nicotine. There are lots of folks in a panic about this date despite that fact. They could have really capitalized and moved product, and created some customer goodwill too.

The fact that there are no big sales is very telling indeed. The vendors don't seem to be even a tiny bit worried, which of course means that perhaps I should not be either.

It's supply and demand. For the past couple of months, DIY supplies have been in greater demand. When your product is in high demand, you don't need to lower prices or have sales to move product. In fact, you really don't want to do that and create an even bigger demand than you can handle, and therefore, run out of supply. When demand is high, and you can't keep up, customers look elsewhere.

 

[aikanae1]

It's supply and demand. For the past couple of months, DIY supplies have been in greater demand. When your product is in high demand, you don't need to lower prices or have sales to move product. In fact, you really don't want to do that and create an even bigger demand than you can handle, and therefore, run out of supply. When demand is high, and you can't keep up, customers look elsewhere.

That's what I've heard too. Many of the nic suppliers have wholesale accts with eliquid manufacturers and they've been stressed keeping up with those orders. There's been a number of eliquid manufacturers that have pushed getting out new flavors as fast as they can before today. This is it now. Nothing new.

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

 

[aikanae1]

Although it looks like chinese distributors are ignoring 8/8 deadline. Yeah, kinda.

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

 

[Kurt]

Ph-adjusted nic(salt form) vs normal freebase isn't nothing new, and there probably are or atleast where vendors doing it i.e. ph-adjusting nic by adding an acid like citric acid. The "idea/benefit" is that it lowers smell and pepper and is much less aromatic than normal nicbases, and of other traits also changes absorption some too... We can do it too I believe, if we don't like a nic in possesion and wants to tone it down by adding an acid to lowers it's PH...

Btw, in NN's description's of there salt-products they state pure nicotine is close to 8? I believe nicotine is 10-11 ph...

I think why tobacco-smoke is "salt-nic" is because there are acids in the leaf essentially ph-adjusting naturally...

Also read this old thread with some comments on this by Kurt: pH of unflavored nic liquid?

Wow that is an OLD thread! So much I didn't know back then, pre-Box-Elder. Humbling actually. Yes there is some incorrect chemistry wording in the NN descriptions. Very incorrect in some cases. I have spoken with Jake at NN about this. Can't say much more, other than the solutions are mixtures of nicotine salts with various anions similar to the dominant forms and ratios as nic in tobacco. I have not tried them yet, but plan to very soon. At this point I am not particularly concerned about these solutions health wise. As was mentioned, nicotine salts are not new. Juul uses them, as have other inhaling technologies some years ago (but did not reach market). I know Vermont Vapor pH adjusts their 35 mg DIY nic to around pH 8 to remove smell and taste. Been doing that since 2009, at least. Other may too. Sour flavors will also product salts. Keep in mind with these NN nic salt solutions that titration kits will greatly under-measure the nic content, since that method only measures free-base nic.

The pH of 100 mg/mL free-base nic is in the high 10s. I think Jake was confusing pH with pKa of the nicotinium cation, a common mistake. A nic solution around pH 8 is about half free-base, half salt form. Lower pH than that and salt forms are dominating. I think he is shooting for pH 5 with these, which is virtually all salt form.

In terms of FDA stuff, today is simply the deadline for introducing new products to the US market. It is not a deadline for us getting current products or China supplying them to the US, and I believe DIY nic with high concentration is not a finished tobacco product anyway, and does not require PMTA submission, but those products will need to be registered some weeks down the road. Not sure, but it may be Dec 31. I do not know the minimum nic concentration that renders it an unfinished tobacco product. Today is just the day when the US market of currently-available finished tobacco products freezes. What this actually means, and what supply and availability for those current products will be down the road is not clear, but I think intent to submit PMTA for post-Feb-2007 products needs to be submitted by Dec 31. Not PMTAs, just intent-to-submit statements. Up to two years for actual PMTA. This is all my understanding and if others know more or better for certain, or more details, please chime in.

 

[Kurt]

Bill Godshall just posted this to FDA Regs forum:

American Vaping Association: August 8, 2016 – What does it mean for vaping?

Link to AVA statement about what today means is in his post. I suggest posting comments there about this, and keep this thread to nicotine comparisons. Very easy to gunk up this thread with FDA side-tracks, even though we are all very concerned about them.

 

[sketchness]

Got my NN order today with the smooth nicotine salt. Very slightly more flavor than the standard offering. Just an ever so slight tobacco taste to it. Mixed a test batch of each side by side 10mg 100% VG. And the smooth is exactly that, smooth. You can pick up the roughness of the regular when vaped side by side.

One thing I love about NN, their liters are always a bit over. Filled four 8 ounce bottles to the threads and still had about 20mls in a squeeze bottle.

 

[chanelvaps]

One thing I love about NN, their liters are always a bit over. Filled four 8 ounce bottles to the threads and still had about 20mls in a squeeze bottle.

I filled 8 four oz bottles the other day and came out exactly right (to the threads) even accounted for the 4-5mls spillage

 

[TraderX]

So if I am reading behind the lines so to speak, is it normal to get short changed on the volume when buying liters of nic?

 

[Exchaner]

The only vendor who has short changed me before is Vaping Zone - no other outfit.

 

[mhertz]

So if I am reading behind the lines so to speak, is it normal to get short changed on the volume when buying liters of nic?

It's rather that it's unusual to get more than paid for(meaning either generous vendor or more likely not perfectly calibrated dispensing machinery) but we usually always overfill our bottles and they generally have 10ml+ overfill capacity, so it often looks like coming short

 

[chanelvaps]

waiting and hoping to hear if anyone tries the new nicotine at Nude. The salt one. I hope some reviews get posted in here

 

[IDJoel]

waiting and hoping to hear if anyone tries the new nicotine at Nude. The salt one. I hope some reviews get posted in here

Not sure what you are hoping to hear. Is it viable? Most likely. Is it worth the 3 times mark-up to other comparable nicotines on the market? I am extremely skeptical. But for that truth to come out you are going to have to wait for several years before you get your answer.

If you are asking about taste; I am not sure if you are going to find anyone who has spent $130/liter for "extended" long-term storage who has already cracked one open. I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time today!

 

[Mactavish]

Not sure what you are hoping to hear. Is it viable? Most likely. Is it worth the 3 times mark-up to other comparable nicotines on the market? I am extremely skeptical. But for that truth to come out you are going to have to wait for several years before you get your answer.

If you are asking about taste; I am not sure if you are going to find anyone who has spent $130/liter for "extended" long-term storage who has already cracked one open. I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time today!

I'll report back in 10 years! on the non-salted version, deep in the freezer.

 

[sketchness]

Not sure what you are hoping to hear. Is it viable? Most likely. Is it worth the 3 times mark-up to other comparable nicotines on the market? I am extremely skeptical. But for that truth to come out you are going to have to wait for several years before you get your answer.

If you are asking about taste; I am not sure if you are going to find anyone who has spent $130/liter for "extended" long-term storage who has already cracked one open. I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time today!

@chanelvaps

I bought a 500ml of the smooth nicotine salt to try. Very subtle tobacco taste, ultra smooth. Tested it alongside the regular nude nicotine at 10mg. I can definitely tell the difference. There is a scratchiness in the regular offering that isn't present in the smooth nicotine salt. And everyone who buys the smooth will need to crack it open and rebottle. They come in plastic containers. The salt version is not bottled like Nude Armor.

 

[chanelvaps]

@chanelvaps

I bought a 500ml of the smooth nicotine salt to try. Very subtle tobacco taste, ultra smooth. Tested it alongside the regular nude nicotine at 10mg. I can definitely tell the difference. There is a scratchiness in the regular offering that isn't present in the smooth nicotine salt. And everyone who buys the smooth will need to crack it open and rebottle. They come in plastic containers. The salt version is not bottled like Nude Armor.

thanks sketchness. I bought a liter of the regular and re-bottled it already. So you are saying there is a scratchiness in the regular. I thought the point of the salt version was that there was a throat hit?