Panic attacks

[LiquidElectron]

Let me get a few facts out of the way first.

• I've had panic disorder/anxiety/depression for 20 years.
• I smoked almost that entire time.
• I've been a bit over 2 months quit and vaping.
• I started at 12mg and am now down to 3mg and 0mg, variably.
• I use an istick 30w and a Subtank Nano (3ml). I vape probably 6ml or so of 3mg through the day and probably 6-9ml of 0 nic in the afternoon and evening.
• I doubt vaping has anything to do with any of what I'm about to say, and it is probably attributable to quitting cigarettes, but it can't hurt to see if anyone else has been through this.
• There is no way I will increase my nicotine level, after all I've gone through to lower it to 3 and 0.

2 months ago (as I stated) I gave up the smokes. I've had anxiety/panic for 20-odd years (as stated!) and it is (was) well controlled with a steady level of clonezapam. Thankfully, I never became tolerant of it, and have never needed a dosage increase. The bad news is that now that I've been taking it for 12 years, I'll probably be taking it forever. I can deal with that.


I'm having serious trouble dealing with the after-effects of quitting. It seems all my muscles have gone permanently tense, as per a normal anxiety issue. The worst part of this is that two months into it now, I've started to get a panic attack from nearly everything. I haven't had a flat out panic attack in years, but now...walking up stairs, going anywhere (including staying in a truck and going through a drive-through lane at the bank), stores, shops, even my therapist...it's all an instant panic attack. It's gotten so bad that all my years of practice have started to give way and I'm sinking into cardiophobia. (i.e. maybe it's not just panic). Has anyone else been through this? Did it end? Ease up? Anything to give me hope...I seriously considering buying a pack this morning.

 

[stevegmu]

Some quick research shows nicotine decreases the effectiveness of benzodiazepines, so you should be getting better, unless you are blowing clouds all day and getting more nicotine than you did when you smoked...

 

[Kivrin]

Liquid Electron, I am so sorry to hear that you are having so many problems.

We started about the same time and I have been having my own difficulties lately. Not exactly the same as yours, but troubling.

I hope someone sincere will speak up and share their experience.

 

[Frenchfry1942]

Thank-you for sharing. *listens*

 

[Lessifer]

There is more to cigarette smoke than nicotine. There are MAOI's and dopamine inhibitors as well. For some people, smoking is a form of self medication for anxiety and depression, so you may be missing something.

I'm not saying you should pick up smoking again, or that you need to increase your meds, or find new meds, that is a personal decision between you and your psychiatrist. You may also want to look into Whole Tobacco Alkaloid (WTA) liquids, which some people find very helpful when nicotine by itself isn't enough.

Best wishes and keep at it.

 

[cinetrope]

There is more to cigarette smoke than nicotine. There are MAOI's and dopamine inhibitors as well. For some people, smoking is a form of self medication for anxiety and depression, so you may be missing something.

I'm not saying you should pick up smoking again, or that you need to increase your meds, or find new meds, that is a personal decision between you and your psychiatrist. You may also want to look into Whole Tobacco Alkaloid (WTA) liquids, which some people find very helpful when nicotine by itself isn't enough.

Best wishes and keep at it.

This is good advice. Talk it over with whoever prescribes you meds and be sure that they understand that your symptoms worsened at the time that you stopped smoking. Explain your desire to, not increase your medication dosage if unnecessary, and, not return to smoking in order to manage your symptoms. Ask for specific advice regarding the pharmokinetic relationship between your meds and the alkaloids in tobacco and if it has been detected in laboratory or patient studies. If in fact you are able to determine, with your doctor's assistance, that this is what is happening, then WTA juices could easily solve your problem.

 

[MagicJosh]

Dont know how i got here (Google search on cotton not giving me flavor)

I do know nicotine can give one anxiety which Leads to panic after. When I smoked tobacco, would get anxiety and would just keep puffing those butts. (idiotic) I'm not talking about stress, real anxiety (phobia feeling).. My mother takes xanax not me. And she is now on it for life. She quite smoking cold turkey and her anxiety got better. Then I started smoking 16 years ago off and on *syh*

FYI, Klonopins make your anxiety worse if you don't take it on time, or, If you quit taking it. They say its more addicting than Opiates (......, Oxycodone) and you could produce seizures. My doctor wont give it to me. It feels great but that .... is dangerous. People rob pharmacies for that .....

 

[Katmar]

Another alternative would be Swedish snus. They are safe and can give you what you are missing from cigs. Works for me when I need it. But, make sure it's Swedish snus because they have been tested the most and are very safe.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[RosaJ]

Smoking helped me to cope with stressful situations, and for decades my life was a constant stream of stress. I was a single mother raising first two children and then later on after my second marriage, my youngest who is 26.

If I were you, I would increase the nicotine for those moments when I see a panic attack coming. Just take time out of whatever it is you're doing and vape through it.

I did have a period of time towards the last 10 years of my smoking where I would get panic attacks while driving so I understand how horrible they are. Talk with your doctor, it could be that you need to change your medication. It's not the vaping, it's a change in your routine that may probably be bringing them on.

I must state I'm not a doctor and neither are most of us in this forum. Even if any of the members here were qualified to give you that kind of advice, they would want to see you in person first to diagnose the problem.

 

[LiquidElectron]

Well supposedly the analogs I used to smoke were 0.5mg of nic per stick, so about 10mg of nicotine a day. My vaping habit of 6ml of 3mg is 18mg give or take a day, sometimes more than 6ml. I am definitely way above where I should be. I'm switching to 0 right now, and if it carries on the next few days, I can see my doc with little warning, so, we'll see how it goes. Probably going to have horrible withdrawals now...or a really easy one, I'm not sure.

 

[twgbonehead]

Well supposedly the analogs I used to smoke were 0.5mg of nic per stick, so about 10mg of nicotine a day. My vaping habit of 6ml of 3mg is 18mg give or take a day, sometimes more than 6ml. I am definitely way above where I should be. I'm switching to 0 right now, and if it carries on the next few days, I can see my doc with little warning, so, we'll see how it goes. Probably going to have horrible withdrawals now...or a really easy one, I'm not sure.

It's very difficult to compare the nicotine in e-liquid with the nicotine in cigarettes, since it is absorbed totally differently. I find it very difficult to believe that 3 mg or even 6mg is necessarily "way above where you should be"!

I do second the post by Lessifer, other compounds in the cigarette smoke may be what you're missing, and it is very possible that WTA would help you dramatically.

But, judging from your description of the symptoms, I would definitely advise you to see your Dr. sooner, rather than later; quitting smoking really does seem to ave triggered something.

 

[Puff2K]

I have similar issues. For me it's an increase in depression (the anxiety may have been slightly better since quitting tobacco). I was also on Klonopin for roughly 30 years until a Nurse Practitioner who didn't want to prescribe it forced me onto a rapid taper two years ago. It's been since then that my anxiety has been through the roof. But vaping has actually helped it a little. I still don't know how to cope with things that produce extra anxiety without smoking. I'm just doing the best I can. Good luck.

 

[Rickajho]

Well supposedly the analogs I used to smoke were 0.5mg of nic per stick, so about 10mg of nicotine a day. My vaping habit of 6ml of 3mg is 18mg give or take a day, sometimes more than 6ml. I am definitely way above where I should be. I'm switching to 0 right now, and if it carries on the next few days, I can see my doc with little warning, so, we'll see how it goes. Probably going to have horrible withdrawals now...or a really easy one, I'm not sure.

Actually - no. You are operating under a false assumption that you absorb 100% of the nicotine from vaping. The reality is you only take in between 1/3 to 1/4 of it. (Vaping is not an efficient means of nicotine delivery.) So your daily intake is more like 6 mg to 4.5 mg per day - not 18 mg.

 

[LiquidElectron]

That's true, I was grasping at math. For all I know it could be withdrawal from analogs, still. I was hoping by now it would have settled down a bit, not gotten worse.

Of course, it could be something else entirely.

Either way I have a doctor's visit next Monday, he seems terribly busy this week.

 

[AndriaD]

I echo the suggestion of WTA -- it contains those MAOIs, which can be crucial to quitting smoking, especially if one is already suffering some type of brain-chemistry problem.

You don't need much of it, if you get the 24mg stuff -- I started out using it as 10% of my ejuice; if I added no further nicotine (WTA is 95% nicotine), that would only be 2.4mg.

aromaejuice.com -- most costly; they originated it; very clear and clean if you get their very expensive Vs unflavored, but they also have WTA-infused ejuice, at 12mg and 24mg -- but those are just WTA-infused with more nic added -- to get the real WTA from them, you have to get the expensive stuff;

wholecigs.com -- mid-range price; they don't sell WTA-infused ejuice, only real WTA. Very clear and clean;

mothersmilkwta.com -- lowest cost; they have both real WTA and WTA-infused ejuice; their "unflavored" WTA is actually quite smoky, and is a very dark brownish yellow; I hear that their WTA-infused ejuice is pretty good.

Andria

 

[Stubby]

I echo the suggestion of WTA -- it contains those MAOIs, which can be crucial to quitting smoking, especially if one is already suffering some type of brain-chemistry problem.

You don't need much of it, if you get the 24mg stuff -- I started out using it as 10% of my ejuice; if I added no further nicotine (WTA is 95% nicotine), that would only be 2.4mg.

WTA does not have MAOI's as they are a product of combustion. WTA does have minor alkaloids which on average are about 5% of the total alkaloid content (with nicotine being the other 95%).

I agree with one of the above posters who said to try snus, and I would add any of the low risk alternatives. That would include snus, dip, nasal snuff, vaporized whole tobacco, and dissolvables. If you are having issues with vaping straight nicotine it is silly to limit yourself. There is a whole world of tobacco harm reduction products out there, and all of them are dramatically less harmful then smoking. There is no reason not to try them.

 

[LiquidElectron]

I'd rather not try anything new right now, I'm already in a tizzy. I'll let you all know what the doc says Monday.

 

[AndriaD]

WTA does not have MAOI's as they are a product of combustion. WTA does have minor alkaloids which on average are about 5% of the total alkaloid content (with nicotine being the other 95%).

I agree with one of the above posters who said to try snus, and I would add any of the low risk alternatives. That would include snus, dip, nasal snuff, vaporized whole tobacco, and dissolvables. If you are having issues with vaping straight nicotine it is silly to limit yourself. There is a whole world of tobacco harm reduction products out there, and all of them are dramatically less harmful then smoking. There is no reason not to try them.

That's not true at all, about the MAOIs. They're a product of TOBACCO -- they occur naturally.

Andria

 

[LiquidElectron]

Let's not argue about things, you'll just stress me out even more

 

[BlueSnake]

I have suffered from the same disorders for 15 years. Unfortunately mine is almost uncontrollable and I really hate klonopin. It numbs me out so bad I can't do sh$t. I have been off meds now for 5 months. I will be going to the Drs soon to see what we will try next.

I have been vaping almost 3 years. I started at 20mg and slowly cut my nic, 2mg every 2 to 3 months. I now vape 2 mg. I can't say that not smoking and vaping has made my condition any better or worse.

My concern with what your doing is that when withdrawing from Tobacco smoking you will have withdrawal from the myriad of chemicals in tobacco smoke. I'm thinking cutting your nicotine so quickly is compounding your withdrawal from smoking. That is a relatively short amount of time to cut your nicotine intake so quickly. I personally could never have vaped successfully by cutting my nicotine that quickly.

Anyway these are just some thoughts. Good luck with everything and try to limit your sudden changes. I know I don't deal well with sudden changes. Mine have to be very gradual. But what do I know. I'm not really even functional.