Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

[MacTechVpr]

Sorry, there won't be any pictures. I wasted way too much time and got frustrated. Not with winding tmc's, but trying to take a decent photo. My camera will not cooperate and I guess I'm a terrible photographer! I got a headache from trying to make out all of the fuzzy pictures I took.

All I've been doing is building for the RM2 to start. It's the simplest atty I have, takes one coil and is foolproof. I have a Reo, so any bottom-fed atty is fair game. I have a Magma and Odin modified to bottom feed, and a RM4, which is a modified Atomic. Those can be built to either single or dual coils, and they are up next for practice.

I actually started this morning to make dual coils for the Atomic with twin 2mm drill bits. I find it easier with my pin vise to put the wire in first, then shove the bit in and tighten, or the wire tends to go into one of the slots and then pop out on me at the worst possible moment.
I started off using a 1/16 drill bit, and there is more space in the vise, so it was easier to fit the wire in, but that's just a little too tiny for my preference. I seem to get better flavor and vapor going with a little larger diameter, but my pin vise heads jump from very small to too big, and the one that accepts a bit over 2mm won't tighten down enough. So that's how I arrived at 2mm!

I think I have the hang of the proper amount of tension now. I still have to overwrap so I can unwind enough to give me a long enough leg to insert, and I guess if anything is giving me trouble it's counting out the wraps and keeping count. Why is this so much harder than hand winding?? I lose count every time and try to eyeball it. No wonder I get a headache.
I did mark the pin vise by drawing a straight line down the side with a black permanent sharpie and covering it with a coat of clear nail polish to seal it. That works, and I count that, but somewhere between counting out a few starter wraps, then counting actual good wraps, I get lost. And the unwrapping gets me every time!

So that's where I am at this point, trying to make identical twin dual coils. It's a bit frustrating, and I am so tempted to just hand wrap them and be done with it!!
I think I'll take a break and do something else for a while.

Congrats on getting the pattern down. It does seem like you're getting sticky but the tale of the tape'll come when you vape it. And it's good you're starting with the Atomic, it's more a real world test with reasonable duals. I like Sup's favorite Odin build, by the numbers... I just commented on. Warm and productive and you can see how it performs on his videos. It's a basic straighfortward wind like channel's 1.778mm build and a great place to start.

Lemme say first one of the biggest frustrations with a pin vise is anchoring the wire both thick and thin. Important that it gets clamped down between the jaws of the collet and the bit. If wedged between the jaws it and the bit both may slip out or spin. A mess. Now with a little magnification you can catch that before it happens. In fact, it is the microcoil and paying attention to small details like gaps in wire that makes us need magnification. To see the importance with it. And with that, what each of these seemingly small details have been contributing, or better said, taking away from our vape.

Yeah, it's a bit of a PIA, too much fiddly…but put in context so is trying to get hand wraps even, and tweaking them, and trying to figure out why they don't respond to tweaking this time or why you're getting a hot leg even if you watched the video…when you take all of that into consideration. And a few weeks in when you're crankin' 'em out like pancakes whether on jig or vise the little gap you noticed and the fiddly jaw on your vise won't even be a thought. Why? Because your vape won't just be great, it will sparkle! And once you have that, the capacity to reap the best of the juice you love, you won't think twice 'bout what we used-ta in vaping for years. I for one, could not go back to 4-wraps on a Genny. Nopes. So I'm not going to kid myself.

If pin vises didn't exist…I'd have to invent one.

And chanel gives good advice too about laying off. There's a limit to muscle memory and it don't happen if visual or mental focus is exhausted. It's a good way to impair motor discipline increasing the learning curve I feel. If you've ever studied an instrument you may too.

Best way to work on multiples is to make a few at a time. Keep the best and toss the wonky ones. Worst case you'll end up with enough, or an extra set. Some folks can wind out a score of these. I usually spin a couple'a three pairs time permitting and I don't de-wind until they're going to be used, to best conserve them.

Cig's right about the visor. Very practical. I use pro lighting. Bad vision. But the best and my fav is a cheap and simple solution I use at demo's/with students/interns/at workshops, the...MagniLamp™ | GN-55 | Magnifiers | Hands Free | Hand Held which is available at most Office Despot, etc. I love that it has a loupe built in! I use the lamp as a base for some pic's like my closeup above of the Subtank parallels. And the 3.5x loupe works like a macro lens with your phone lens. The regular lens also helps to slightly magnify phone pics and seems to sharpen the focus by slightly blurring background.

Beyond a pin vise and drill blanks the number one accessory I recommend is the above, before running out to get the ceramic tweezers.



Good luck Mia.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Just to clarify, what guage is that twisted? And that's a parallel on a Subtank? You didn't change your wicking for a week? Twisted coils don't usually last a week for me, much less wicks. Very interesting write up. I will look into it, both the parallel and the Subtank!

Mia the TLP (twisted lead parallel) is a mixture of both with just the leads twisted. It allows the greatest number of thin light turns in a given space of high(er) resistance wire. It also enjoys the stability of the t.m.c. brought by twisting the leads which tends to lock the state of adhesion in which they were wound for oxidation. I do believe as well that the slight increase in resistance brought by twisting the leads is actually contributing to wind efficiency way and above the percentile of leg power loss. At least that's what I'm seeing so far looking at some of the numbers on steam-engine and comparing winds on a resistance-to-resistance basis.

All's I know is it's a fast firing compact little wind that cooks like the fat boys.



A consistent t.m.c. is the entry ticket here Mia. And then the challenge for all of us with parallels is figuring out where to anchor the open end of the loop to tension the pair. You'd also need some type of good clamp to hold the wind intact while you twist the leads. You can use the pin vise for twisting and it's very precise. With a little magnifier you can even count the twist turns as cig does very accurately I might add. It can effect the coil or balance between pairs slightly if the leads don't match in resistance. Get a standard 8-count workin' for you with dense effect cool-down and a TLP'll be that on steroids. But it is the kind of performance wind that I can see delivering the production that we want in a clean way…and lasting in our devices. And I am a lazy…. as I've said many times.

Good luck Mia.

 

[cigatron]

I have put these little devils (twisted lead parallels) in my STm 4 times now, some removed and reinstalled 5 times before clipping the leads . Mac, you have more patience than I do is all I can say. After 4 builds I'm still unable to keep the two coils lined up perfectly. Close, but no cigar. I'm sure there are benifits to be had with the TLP coils but I'm just getting a warm-hot vape with a burny undertone at 20w every time. Just like when I started with tmc coils, before I learned symmetry. I just can't seem to get symmetry with this design. Fussy fussy. Can't even get one symmetrical enough to use, much less let anyone see a pic....lol. But hey, they do rumble like crazy!!!

For now I think I'll save them for drippers where I can set the coils slightly short of the full outboard position and pull the pairs into alignment and final position with a mandrel. Haven't had problems using them there with that technique.

You da man Mac....Me? Back to twisted......less fussy....more vaping. Not necessarily better....just more vaping and less fiddly time.


Edit: just had an thought. Maybe tomorrow I'll try a clockwise wind and mount the coil upside down. That way the coil will start out too low and allow for me to pull it up to the correct height while aligning the winds. It has to be easy or I'm going to pull out my hair...both of them....lol

 

[Mia11]

Thank you for all those good tips. I'll take more breaks, get the magnifying light, and put off thinking about that cool looking twisted parallel lead build until I get better at the simple stuff. Walk first, then run. I remember.
Sometimes I get impatient and just need a shot of zen and a chillax chaser. Be the coil...be the coil...be the coil

 

[MacTechVpr]

I have put these little devils (twisted lead parallels) in my STm 4 times now, some removed and reinstalled 5 times before clipping the leads . Mac, you have more patience than I do is all I can say. After 4 builds I'm still unable to keep the two coils lined up perfectly. Close, but no cigar. I'm sure there are benifits to be had with the TLP coils but I'm just getting a warm-hot vape with a burny undertone at 20w every time. Just like when I started with tmc coils, before I learned symmetry. I just can't seem to get symmetry with this design. Fussy fussy. Can't even get one symmetrical enough to use, much less let anyone see a pic....lol. But hey, they do rumble like crazy!!!

For now I think I'll save them for drippers where I can set the coils slightly short of the full outboard position and pull the pairs into alignment and final position with a mandrel. Haven't had problems using them there with that technique.

You da man Mac....Me? Back to twisted......less fussy....more vaping. Not necessarily better....just more vaping and less fiddly time.


Edit: just had an thought. Maybe tomorrow I'll try a clockwise wind and mount the coil upside down. That way the coil will start out too low and allow for me to pull it up to the correct height while aligning the winds. It has to be easy or I'm going to pull out my hair...both of them....lol

Thanks for the compliment, sorta. <I say meekly>

If you only knew cig that this was one of the fastest hurried and messed up builds I've ever done. Kinda why I put it out there. It contained the one necessary ingredient…enough adhesion. Not a dissection of your build or necessarily an answer but some thoughts here.

Gonna answer you this way…in engineering, particularly, software engineering there's a term I admire that applies here...extensibility. One of the things I most detest doing is to tell a person do this this'a way or that'a way. I rely on the certainty that we being the curious and experimental that we see so much here will indubitably put the Leggo's together. So I'm not going to bawl if people don't use exit of rotation as a principle or insist that jig winders learn how to de-wind anyway or keep winds on the bit. However, I do explain and suggest those approaches if honed in, come naturally to you, are eventually extensible to create the symmetry of this…

When I know something will work you guys have it. But not a minute before. And that includes the knowledge that others can do it, as well as what it takes. If it doesn't work reliably, that easily, hard for most or just not all that…you never hear it. And believe me there's been a lot of that.

So I should emphasize once more…you simply need to stabilize t.m.c.'s with some kind of clamp to twist lead center-posts or end-turns. May not seem like much energy but it's more than enough to make a mess of adhesion. Once that happens all manner of wonkiness ensues. Why I labored with this idea so long. And the solution is rather simple, a clamp. The counterintuitive one that says simple means, I gotta do it by hand, is not in this case. My approach from the jump's been let existing tools, methods and tech reduce our work and stress. I usually fail when I depart from that idea and find myself right back here reiterating my own words. Let's not be reinventing the wheel with every wind and teaching others that this is the way it must be. Who dictated that every wind has to be that unique and unpredictable each one a lesson in elusive perfection. Again, not speaking to your build cig but a concern here.

I kinda see that as exactly what happens though in vaping. As if somehow making something not easily repeatable were the goal and possessed some magical quality nothing else could. Well cig, you know what this is for those that believe that. And that is exactly what's happening when most don't even mention wind diameters, far less spacings. So how can we expect others to even remotely approximate the exceptional vape we lay claim to.

Now here you suggest perhaps mine can't be, lol. Scroll back for the instructions on this Log Cabin.

I'm not passing on the principles of vaping perfection here. There is no such thing. However, mediocrity is not an option if we know there's better. And there is, consistency. It's not the wind. It's whether we trained ourselves adequately to apply strain uniformly. As I said earlier, I could no more go back to 4-turns spaced on a genny than pick up an analog. At this point that includes an ordinary twisted pair except those instances where I know it's uniquely useful. And impossible to make function with the advantages of a t.m.c. A cool down at a net loss of performance and efficiency. Or you could just build a t.m.c. at that resistance and enjoy the benefits. It is no more difficult to build a TLP than a carefully spaced TP or close contact pulsed version. For the latter, to begin to enjoy some tensioned-like benefit, far more work in prep and tweaking. And those of us who really can't dispense with flavor at the expense of vapor are not willing to forego the work to get it. That's a fact, and it's most of us.

And we are doing that much work. I am arguing against it. But there is a learning curve dammit. I can't spare you that.

Da man? Not so much. I'm a crappy bungling builder. But there's a method to my madness and the simple techniques I'm tryin' to pass on. And the point here is put them together and they are potentially extensible to the advantage of most every kind of wind we might consider. An example being Matty's twisted-center post.

So I'll say it here so we can dispense with the semantics. Anything we wind just works. And if that floats your boat, great. But it is a matter of degree. For a t.m.c. it must do the job it's supposed to. And that's it's advantage. The results are fairly predictable even if you're a little bit off. A TLP a little more work but the same applies. Not a beginners build but definitely not more work or difficulty than a truly symmetrical pair of anything. And a lot less work than anything else in the grand scheme of things. Lucky by my definition then being synonymous with the extensibility I describe.

So there's no turnin' back my man. A t.m.c. is the apple in the garden. Your eyes have been opened. Curse me if you want, lol, but…there you have it.

Enjoy the vape!

 

[chanelvaps]

you guys (and girls) are all too high tech for me! No way can I ever learn this twisted wire stuff... I can already tell I am going to get left in the dust here

 

[cigatron]

you guys (and girls) are all too high tech for me! No way can I ever learn this twisted wire stuff... I can already tell I am going to get left in the dust here

Me too Chanel! If someone else besides Mac had produced that TLP coil and set it in a STmini with that kind of perfection I would have just given up...lol. As it is we're all just trying to keep up!

Mac, thanks. I'll try clamping the wires with something other than my thumbnail while twisting the legs next time.

 

[clnire]

you guys (and girls) are all too high tech for me! No way can I ever learn this twisted wire stuff... I can already tell I am going to get left in the dust here

Me too! ................

 

[MacTechVpr]

Me too Chanel! If someone else besides Mac had produced that TLP coil and set it in a STmini with that kind of perfection I would have just given up...lol. As it is we're all just trying to keep up!

Mac, thanks. I'll try clamping the wires with something other than my thumbnail while twisting the legs next time.

Think that'll help cig.

A needle-and-thread can help us suture a hole in a sock, produce the durability of a storm sail or craft the most incredibly graceful and delicate macramé. But first you must do needle-and-thread.

It's not about our best effort or best art. It's about our own best knowledge, the tool(s). Genius we all got in us. It all starts there. My first posting of a twisted center post was copied within a day or so on VU. No doubt with no tool I've shared here. That's artful, but neither art nor craft. And likely not simple or easy. Just not what I'm talkin' about.

Funny thing is cig, the tech works. I'd rather not be the only one at this kiddie party to enjoy it. Never the kind to hog the treats from the piñata; but having broken it, I can dig it if folks just want the fruitcake.

Appreciate your ack. Glad you got it cig. I hate struggling too. So pardon the appeal, almost didn't post it. Trying my best to keep the soapbox in the toolshed.

Good luck all.

 

[MacTechVpr]

you guys (and girls) are all too high tech for me! No way can I ever learn this twisted wire stuff... I can already tell I am going to get left in the dust here

Me too! ................

Why I so long avoided winds more ordinary than 10-turns, 29.

But suddenly Kanger's given us a broader canvas. Don't blame them, we asked for it!

You're right tho, this isn't Kansas anymore Dorothy. Clouds have definitely fogged the landscape. But don't look at me. I still love/hate my Protanks.



Prolly always will.

Good luck all.

 

[cigatron]

So I wound up another TLP this morning. Clockwise rotation, 29awg, 6/5, 7/64, .7ohm. Set it upside down and pulled up on it with the 7/64 mandrel to obtain the correct height and to get better symmetry. Better, but still not as symmetrical as yours Mac; lost an end turn pair. Good enough though, so I chunky wicked it and have been chuck'n some heavy dense clouds with good flavor at 21.5w. Previous burny undertone is gone. Not sure I landed on the perfect wicking density; a little too heavy maybe. We'll see, I'll run it until everything breaks in and report back whether or not the fussy is worth the vape for me. Right now it's rumbl'n like a race cam in a hotrod....

 

[MacTechVpr]

So I wound up another TLP this morning. Clockwise rotation, 29awg, 6/5, 7/64, .7ohm. Set it upside down and pulled up on it with the 7/64 mandrel to obtain the correct height and to get better symmetry. Better, but still not as symmetrical as yours Mac; lost an end turn pair. Good enough though, so I chunky wicked it and have been chuck'n some heavy dense clouds with good flavor at 21.5w. Previous burny undertone is gone. Not sure I landed on the perfect wicking density; a little too heavy maybe. We'll see, I'll run it until everything breaks in and report back whether or not the fussy is worth the vape for me. Right now it's rumbl'n like a race cam in a hotrod....

I gather from upside down you mean Rip T style, leads exiting top of coil. Guessin'.

I tried to find a res target that would allow the leads to flow directly to the screw mount points as closely to the native direction of rotation as possible. Considered 29g and perhaps found it a tad long; but, it's on my build table. As is 7/64" as a wind Ø for the larger Subtank RBA.

Doing quite a few of these quick-and-dirty these past months I found over-winding quite helpful. And more than enough to remove from both ends to ensure getting the precise level of tightness needed. I'd shoot for a 9-turn, take 8 if need be. But no loose end. For security a straight wire pair at every session. I hate to walk away from a vape. But here's the typical idea...

Here's another example of over-winding for the really long eventual stretch of an 18-turn TPCP. These have to be clean especially for duals…

Look none of what I'm gonna say here is of any high degree of difficulty. Not any more than wrestling the stubborn cap on a beer or a clasp on a belligerent bag of taco chips. We deal with far worse fiddly every day. Not gonna even mention kids. Done every month or two and you're going to have to think it through. Do more than a couple regularly and it's familiar.

Suggestion…when setting an end try to always clamp or .... that end as you tension against the set screw…right to the point you need the turn geometry to end or extend to. That is, the maximum point of travel you require or allow for to permit set of the remaining lead. You're going to have to go slightly off the perpendicular with Subtank posts if you go 30AWG or lower. Same thing on the other side and you will be at the max off-axis to posts for the set. A loose set initially for positioning. If you get the first lead dead on and you can see a clean termination for the opposite lead, wonderful. Lock it in, rock-n-roll.

At this point, it's either going to be adequate or you may wish to try shortening the leads to adjust for elevation, tighten up res, etc. You can do that as you've determined the maximum amount of deviation. Again, always clamping or butting the end turn you are working on. Sometimes, I do both. Use a screw driver of the same Ø to .... the free end as I hold and strain the clamped end to it's intended position. Note most of the clamps I have are miniature yet the clamp's really are larger than the wind itself in most instances. So I'm saying clamp from the end being worked…or across the wind (I use flat-faced clamps for that). Forceps are also useful primarily for butting turn end points. On occasion to tension/hold the end turn across the wind for the set or an adjustment (pulling slightly). Careful with forceps as the teeth may separate the wind if too dissimilar to the wind pitch (or squeezed too hard). I'm very careful with forceps and prefer mini clamps these days.

This is a build practice I modeled early on cig as I fell in love with the Immo's and flat wire. Of course I had to find a way to make t.m.c.'s from these and it required a completely different approach. An overnight constrainment of flat Kanthal to avert torching…

Stabilize the end turn and you limit the potential risk to end-turn adhesion. And I'll state it here to be clear. In rebuilding it's the center of the coil that you're trying to keep stable. It's the part in a standard wind that goes hot. To get even distribution it must oxidize uniformly. Distort an end turn and we must compress to get contact and congruity. THERE is where the problem is. We seldom realize just how little energy input is needed to disrupt adhesion before pulsing. And that is what the twisted leads protect.

My conclusion is that end turn adhesion until the leads are locked is absolutely essential. That's why I stopped building conventional parallels long ago. Uniform wind integrity could not be maintained as a t.m.c. You could build 'em as one but inevitably one had to resort to compressing them as a correction. Not anywhere near as good oxidation and it definitely reflected in the vape…flavor, durability and accretion.

With t.m.c.'s it is and it's always been about the end turns.

Hope this helps.

Good luck cig.

 

[cigatron]

Thanks for the tutorial Mac. I'll try to spend a little more time on the next TLP wind.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Thanks for the tutorial Mac. I'll try to spend a little more time on the next TLP wind.

No worries. Still contemplating the OCC's navel. Can you provide a lead length cig? LMK. And elaborate a bit on this notch termination thingy. Effect on direction of exit. Point me back if I missed it.

I would note that the air holes are nominally 2.8mm so its quite feasible to stabilize using up to a 7/64" drill bit.

And what if any observation on the stock coil's wire gauge? I make them out to be quite thick. Poss 25AWG for the 1.2Ω except there's no tellin' what the alloy might be or it's res. I don't get that it vapes like standard Kanthal. Just to ponder the equivalent. Were that gauge or a comp tested we'd have a better handle on deviation from our norm. I would consider building a line length equiv in different form for ha-ha's. Thought I'd mic'd the Ø for the 1.2Ω and found same at 6mm, didn't. Both were .5's. And don't have a wired one that's not runnin'. Is it the same cig?

The coils are powerful. I'll give 'em that. Is anyone else even considering the wattage of these beasties? No wonder folks are runnin' through juice vapin' 'em and tryin' to dupe 'em. So no, I wouldn't embark on a mission to max out these tanks. I don't think that's what most of us want or need in light of the preceding. But damn these'r nice tanks for their extended consistent performance. Yeah a bit more consideration given to the planning and execution of a reliable rebuild. But I can really dig the idea of going a day on a SubT (somebody got me writing that now) with a stable decent vape, finally, not having to worry about half tank fills.

Have you built on the SubT base yet? Anyone? Poor thing's being ignored.

Good luck.

 

[cigatron]

Mac, I don't have any occ's to measure. Tore them all apart to rebuild; splitty grommets. I'm doing my bi-monthly trip to the big city tomorrow. I'll pick up a few to measure. I'll post pics of my next occ build showing the lead exit points from the coil and terminating locations. Very easy to rebuild and rewick. They'll probably be my choice for dirty nets as soon as someone comes out with a higher silicone content insulator grommet.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Mac, I don't have any occ's to measure. Tore them all apart to rebuild; splitty grommets. I'm doing my bi-monthly trip to the big city tomorrow. I'll pick up a few to measure. I'll post pics of my next occ build showing the lead exit points from the coil and terminating locations. Very easy to rebuild and rewick. They'll probably be my choice for dirty nets as soon as someone comes out with a higher silicone content insulator grommet.

From the performance of the juices I put through the OCC's I'd say a better chance of doing clean builds on this tank than the PT. Yes. I thought I read some mention of your having to depart from direction of wind. That's what I hope you'll speak to.

I know they're easy. I took apart and reassembled some of the factory OCC's. Their wire is thick that's why I was able. So I'm not understanding the termination difficulty. I just have not had time beyond some research on specs to do the hands on. The TLP was easy as the spec had already been designed, worked through and tested. It was a drop in.

What is the lead length you've encountered if you recall? Ballpark?

Good luck n thx for the comeback.

 

[chanelvaps]

I feel like I felt in Junior High when the class went on to Algebra and I could not keep up

 

[MacTechVpr]

Lifted from my post What cooks, what don't…??? for reference...

I give it a stab... All you science types please correct me if I am wrong! ;-)


The .5 OCCs contain more wire which translates to more surface area. Given the same amount of wattage (heat) on the coil as a whole that should mean that the heat is spread out wider. This would mean that the actual temp of the wire in contact with the juice & cotton is lower. Also since the wire is bigger the area where the juice is being boiled (vaporized) stays lower down and in closer contact with the cotton. This would allow the cotton to absorb the components in the juice that don't like to vaporize. These are usually sweeteners & tobacco flavor elements. When these hard to vaporize elements get up high on the wire they will stick to it and accumulate. Once stuck to your wire they keep getting cooked over and over with each vape which is where we get those ugly formations of gunk and scale. The gunk and scale will also reduce the efficiency of the coil which leads to things like popping and spitting, nasty flavors. etc.


Since you are using a sweet juice with good results sounds like you might be onto something here. I LOVE sweet juices so I might have to give this a try myself. THANKS FOR SHARING!

You make some very interesting observations here Mr. R!

Even though these coils are massively big, massively hot, they're really gunking, end-to-end, hmmm. I think you're right. But not the same heat over a larger area, lots more. In fact the pictures I took show the effects of that.

An interesting notion that…juice can exude from the wick yet still not vaporize. I agree, 100%.

There is a thing called the thermal (evaporation) zone. It resides in extreme proximity to the wire itself. The closer to normal atmospheric pressure, the higher the vaporization temperature that the liquid must reach to evaporate. Open winds don't build as high internal pressures as microcoils I'd suggest here. So heat and expansion send more juice to the wick surface without reaching vape temp. Considerable amounts do while very hot contact the coil. What happens to hot organics (like food) when they hit a an extremely hot dry surface? Simple answer, char.

Juice that just heats up outside of the TZ...like between spacing of coils…will just cook. If you're getting high vapor output it's due to the over-abundance of power needed for this level of production. But high output energy doesn't necessarily mean high-efficiency, as in this case, a clean operation.

Also inefficient spaced winds overcome the intermittent dispersal of the TZ with lots of power. This produces diffusion of the portion of the juice flow that was vaporized. That is, heating and expansion of the vapor...after the fact. It's actually [not/I] more vaporization exactly; but, an increase of partial vaporization. That is, perhaps over what we're accustomed to seeing from a clearo.

What didn't get vaporized, you ask? You're looking at it…

So you're right Mr. R, the wire temp's may be higher. But the surface temp's as a ratio to the coil surface overall are lower. And not enough to vaporize the rate of flow of fluid.

But clouds and flavor can coexist with a smart design and that's why we can blow it out of the park rebuilding.

Thx your thoughts Mr. R.

Good luck.



p.s. Close contact to cotton is not particularly a feature of these new coils any more than previously. In part that's what's contributing to accretion. It's tight but not a controlled and uniform tightness, enough to compensate for gravity sag with use. Not a user-friendly environment either in the replacement coils to adjust for that. The OCC head is not a rebuildable/rewickable platform. Not intended or designed to be. It's a single use device. A consumable. So cotton, rayon, etc. of variable shape and density are not the practical media for those of us who can't be constantly rebuilding. Why I applaud Kanger for finally incorporating an RBA. But if we're expecting a different result using the same means of production in an OCC…hehhhh. I wouldn't count on it.

 

[Mia11]

I feel like I felt in Junior High when the class went on to Algebra and I could not keep up

Me, too. The more I read these entries the less I understand and the more intimidated I feel.

 

[cigatron]

And you're not alone Mia! Some of the more technical aspects need to be discussed though. It's what brings us to the next level....not just in optimizing the vape with the devices we have but to drive the manufacturers to better designs....they ARE reading these posts you know.

If all you grasp is tension winding and how to set and wick a coil in your atty you're already advanced beyond 99.9% of the vapers out there.