UNICORN MILK by Cuttwood

[Vagabondnurse]

I don't support anyone lol. I support the idea of innocent until proven guilty. I had no idea it was confirmed. Had id known my post would have been entirely different.

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Just go back to page 5 of this thread and you can see where "AnnieP65" quoted a post made by one of Cuttwood's vendors. He contacted the maker of the juice and states he was told that the juice contained a white food coloring that does contain titanium dioxide. Unfortunately the original comment was removed due to the poster being a vendor and posting in a forum where vendors are restricted from posting. However B&M's have been reportedly pulling the product from their shelves and in the other Unicorn Milk thread someone went to cancel their order for this and found that it had already been canceled by the vendor.

 

[Vagabondnurse]

I think the take away information from this should be to be wary of any funky colored juices. If you want something to look colored then buy colored tanks/glass for your atomizer. They're less likely to introduce harmful substances into your vaping.

 

[baseballmom]

Thanks for sharing, I'll pass & hope he reformulates the juice to be safe after all this coming out into open, but I don't think I'd trust anymore or want to try now after this anyway. Concerns me cause if you don't diy, we sure put trust in vendors to provide safe products and not do stuff like this.

 

[BillyWJ]

Okay, let's not freak out completely here. No inhaled product should contain this substance, it's clear, and I will not argue this. But let's talk reality - a pack of cigarettes is probably more dangerous than titanium oxide.

Tobacco smoke is a class 1 carcinogen, as determined by the IARC (International Agency on the Research on Cancer). It's a known carcinogen.

Titanium dioxide is a class 2B carcinogen, according to the IARC. It's "possible" to cause cancer, but not guaranteed - and is less a threat than tobacco smoke.

List of IARC Group 2B carcinogens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Note that the 2B rating is specific to inhalation - ingesting does not seem to be a risk - and long term exposure seems to be required.

So, if you vaped some of this liquid, you're probably okay - there's no guarantees, and no way to know if you do get diagnosed with cancer that it's the cause, as there are millions of things in the environment that can cause cancer, starting with sunlight. The couple of drops per bottle is probably not enough to be concerned, unless you vaped gallons of it. I have no proof of that, but that's my take from reading up on it.

This ingredient does not belong in eliquids, it's 100% clear (pun not intended). Make no mistake about it, it's just irresponsible to have put this in an inhaled product without doing research and due diligence. My intent here is to possibly calm those who've vaped it - it's not a guarantee of cancer if you did. You raised your risk window by doing so, but you can do that eating burned french fries and hamburgers too.

 

[Jonathan Tittle]

I do think the maker deserves some credit for admitting his mistake, and however serious this is, it was not intentional. Some people would have dug a much deeper hole but I honestly think he needs to be commended for admitting the truth and apparently working to rectify it.

I agree, to a point, however, we're talking about a potentially toxic substance that can potentially do damage to the lungs. Additives are added to juices intentionally. Failure to research falls on the creator. I'm glad he's making changes, but to make changes as a result of an uproar over a chemical you didn't properly research in the first place...well, that just shows that perhaps you're not ready to go public.

Do people make mistakes? Sure, all the time - I've made my fair share in my lifetime. That said, what you put into your juice is your responsibility. Whatever you add, you need to be knowledgeable of, otherwise, don't use it.

 

[GemCutter]

We do need "some kind" of regulation.

SELF-REGULATION.

That's the only way we get our juices the way we like them, and there being some safety standardization.

The FDA will drive ecigs into the ground as fast as possible. They are virtually controlled by big pharma and we all know they HATE ecigs. Every single person who quits with PV's will never be paying $300 a month or whatever for the next big pharmaceutical drug for quitting analogs. Add to that the hardball tactics, political connections, and unlimited funds of big tobacco, I don't think the industry can survive full on FDA regulation, at least not as we know it.

If the alcohol industry in America can self regulate as much as they do, so can ejuice makers.

 

[GemCutter]

Okay, let's not freak out completely here. No inhaled product should contain this substance, it's clear, and I will not argue this. But let's talk reality - a pack of cigarettes is probably more dangerous than titanium oxide.

Tobacco smoke is a class 1 carcinogen, as determined by the IARC (International Agency on the Research on Cancer). It's a known carcinogen.

Titanium dioxide is a class 2B carcinogen, according to the IARC. It's "possible" to cause cancer, but not guaranteed - and is less a threat than tobacco smoke.

List of IARC Group 2B carcinogens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Note that the 2B rating is specific to inhalation - ingesting does not seem to be a risk - and long term exposure seems to be required.

So, if you vaped some of this liquid, you're probably okay - there's no guarantees, and no way to know if you do get diagnosed with cancer that it's the cause, as there are millions of things in the environment that can cause cancer, starting with sunlight. The couple of drops per bottle is probably not enough to be concerned, unless you vaped gallons of it. I have no proof of that, but that's my take from reading up on it.

This ingredient does not belong in eliquids, it's 100% clear (pun not intended). Make no mistake about it, it's just irresponsible to have put this in an inhaled product without doing research and due diligence. My intent here is to possibly calm those who've vaped it - it's not a guarantee of cancer if you did. You raised your risk window by doing so, but you can do that eating burned french fries and hamburgers too.

The danger of analogs has literally no bearing on this conversation if you ask me.

That's why we quit analogs.

"Cigarettes are really carcinogenic, and you smoked those, so calm down about inhaling something that's only mildly carcinogenic."

Ummmm... No.

Analogs have 1000 chemicals so if an ejuice is found to have 950 chemicals we should just calm down?

I don't get this comparison.


Analogs are dangerous but the MSDS sheet on TiO2 (titanium dioxide) says: "Personal Protection in Case of a Large Spill:Splash goggles. Full suit. Dust respirator. Boots. Gloves. A self contained breathing apparatus should be used to avoid inhalation of the product. Suggested protective clothing might not be sufficient; consult a specialist BEFORE handling this product."

i doubt you are going to see that kind of gear worn if the Marlboro truck crashes... Even if it is on fire.

 

[Southern Tina]

Well, that sounds right up my ally. I'll order some

 

[BillyWJ]

The danger of analogs has literally no bearing on this conversation if you ask me.

That's why we quit analogs.

"Cigarettes are really carcinogenic, and you smoked those, so calm down about inhaling something that's only mildly carcinogenic."

Ummmm... No.

Analogs have 1000 chemicals so if an ejuice is found to have 950 chemicals we should just calm down?

I don't get this comparison.

It's not a comparison, it's a classification.

Tobacco smoke is a KNOWN carcinogen. IACR Class 1.

Titanium dioxide is a POSSIBLE carcinogen. IACR Class 2B.

I was pointing out that tobacco smoke is more dangerous, as an example of what's more dangerous than a Class 2B product. I was putting the danger of titanium dioxide in perspective, if someone was worried about having vaped it.

I also didn't state that titanium dioxide is "mildly" carcinogenic, please don't put words in my mouth. What i posted is that it's possibly carcinogenic - in other words, the scientists who study this stuff think it might cause cancer, but there's not enough proof of it, like there is for Class 1 substances.

It's replies like yours that are making me lose more and more interest in posting here, I'm trying to help by discussing the realities of this substance with people making comments like "I just finished a bottle of that!", and your response is to mock me without really taking the time to understand what i posted. Gee, thanks.

 

[Southern Tina]

Oh Lord. I didn't realize there was such a debate on this. Everything will kill you these days. I'm still ordering it.

 

[Southern Tina]

It's not a comparison, it's a classification.

Tobacco smoke is a KNOWN carcinogen. IACR Class 1.

Titanium dioxide is a POSSIBLE carcinogen. IACR Class 2B.

I was pointing out that tobacco smoke is more dangerous, as an example of what's more dangerous than a Class 2B product. I was putting the danger of titanium dioxide in perspective, if someone was worried about having vaped it.

I also didn't state that titanium dioxide is "mildly" carcinogenic, please don't put words in my mouth. What i posted is that it's possibly carcinogenic - in other words, the scientists who study this stuff think it might cause cancer, but there's not enough proof of it, like there is for Class 1 substances.

It's replies like yours that are making me lose more and more interest in posting here, I'm trying to help by discussing the realities of this substance with people making comments like "I just finished a bottle of that!", and your response is to mock me without really taking the time to understand what i posted. Gee, thanks.

Everyone is an "expert". Blah. I'll take the risk.

Ps. You may not want to drive either. That has risks too. Just sayin.

 

[Sdh]

Titanium Dioxide: Inhalation Toxicology and Epidemiology

 

[intoxicatingarts]

Yay, they are coming out with a clear one. I Ordered This The Other Day From Vaporlife. Just called them and asked them to hold my order until they get the clear one in Stock and they said no problem

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[BillyWJ]

Everyone is an "expert". Blah. I'll take the risk.

Ps. You may not want to drive either. That has risks too. Just sayin.

I don't get what you're trying to say here, but I'm kind of on my last nerve with this forum.

I'm out. I might come back. I have better things to do, like vape. Life's too short for this kind of thing.

 

[GemCutter]

Again, what do the carcinogenic properties of analogs have to do with this?

The gist of your post was, we took bigger risks with analogs so let's not freak out. Was it not?

I don't care what level of danger was in analog cigarettes, and I don't care how diminished (or in this case not) the danger level is in the chemical that should not be in ejuice compared to analogs. The comparison is moot.

I know a good amount of people who NEVER smoked an analog who vape, how does your analogy help them?

It's like saying, well we all drove cars from the 80's and they didn't have airbags so if your 2014 model cars airbag doesn't deploy because of a manufacturers defect, don't freak out.

 

[intoxicatingarts]

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[Sissylala]

Oh Lord. I didn't realize there was such a debate on this. Everything will kill you these days. I'm still ordering it.

Good luck with that, the original is being pulled for a reason.

 

[Southern Tina]

I don't get what you're trying to say here, but I'm kind of on my last nerve with this forum.

I'm out. I might come back. I have better things to do, like vape. Life's too short for this kind of thing.

Oh I don't debate. I just get tired of reading someone's suggestions on a flavor and there is always a nay sayer...every single time. I have better things to do than debate and post "studies" and the like. I have to work. Which I will get back to now.

 

[squee]

Analogs are dangerous but the MSDS sheet on TiO2 (titanium dioxide) says: "Personal Protection in Case of a Large Spill:Splash goggles. Full suit. Dust respirator. Boots. Gloves. A self contained breathing apparatus should be used to avoid inhalation of the product. Suggested protective clothing might not be sufficient; consult a specialist BEFORE handling this product."

i doubt you are going to see that kind of gear worn if the Marlboro truck crashes... Even if it is on fire.

No, but you will see it for liquid nicotine. From the MSDS from l-nicotine:

Personal Protection in Case of a Large Spill:
Splash goggles. Full suit. Vapor respirator. Boots. Gloves. A self contained breathing apparatus should be used to avoid
inhalation of the product. Suggested protective clothing might not be sufficient; consult a specialist BEFORE handling this
product

 

[Sissylala]

ECF, why would you delete Vihn's post? Because hes an unregistered supplier? Are you for real? The interest of public safety should come over the interest of the rules here.