Why Vapers are getting a BAD NAME.

[Uma]

I think comparing apples and oranges like liquid contained to a cup and an unknown airborne substance that you have no choice but to breath in is what's silly here. It's not about what's legal or illegal. It's about respecting others. I'm not trying to start an argument but perhaps you missed my point. IF it was smoke, you would have to smell (inhale) some of it to know. By vaping in an indoor public area around people, you are forcing that possibility on someone. They either leave or breath in the unknown. A man with a cup is not pouring it down your throat without consent.

With SHS, a person would have to spend an hour a day for 117,000 years to equal one cigarette. With vaping, we can quadruple that number, because there is no side stream, there are fewer ingredients exhaled, and the vapor dissipates rather than hangs around, providing the room is adequently ventilated. If the vapor hangs, I would change rooms, because that is a sure sign that the exhalations of everyone is definitely lingering. The avg non tobacco user exhales formaldehyde, acetone, ISO-something, and other volatile organic ingredients on a daily basis. The Vaper actually exhales less toxins due to the fact the influenza germs and whatnot are being killed before leaving the body.
This would be common knowledge if the ALA, TFK, ACS, ACA, AG, etc weren't so corrupt.

 

[Uma]

Drinking soda from a cup looks exactly the same as drinking whiskey from a cup. Do you expect every store owner, secretary, or patient in a waiting room to conduct an investigation every time they see you drinking from a cup? Just don't drink anything where drinking alcohol is not allowed.

Sorry, that's a really silly argument.

One of the biggest complaints people have about smoking is the smell. It has a very strong, very distinctive smell. If people are smoking, they can't hide it. If you don't smell smoke, then your "investigation" is done.

Again, I'm not trying to support the lady vaping in a pediatricians office. I don't think that's a good idea. But "Treat it like it was a cigarette" is also a very bad idea.

I still love love love the smell of a burning cigarette and or pipe. A lot of people do. The ANTZ don't, of course, or they do but are too enticed by it or something, which gives away their weakness.
Stale smoke, on the other hand is much more horrid than I ever imagined it to be.
I wish the ANTZ would be honest so rebels would lend an ear. They lose face with obvious lies, & the rest of what they say is ignored until it's too late. But, hey, maybe that's their goal.

 

[YoungMichael88]

With SHS, a person would have to spend an hour a day for 117,000 years to equal one cigarette. With vaping, we can quadruple that number, because there is no side stream, there are fewer ingredients exhaled, and the vapor dissipates rather than hangs around, providing the room is adequently ventilated. If the vapor hangs, I would change rooms, because that is a sure sign that the exhalations of everyone is definitely lingering. The avg non tobacco user exhales formaldehyde, acetone, ISO-something, and other volatile organic ingredients on a daily basis. The Vaper actually exhales less toxins due to the fact the influenza germs and whatnot are being killed before leaving the body.
This would be common knowledge if the ALA, TFK, ACS, ACA, AG, etc weren't so corrupt.

I agree with you. But it's not really about the science and the numbers here. The average person doesn't think that way (sadly). I think what you quoted me on accurately describes their thought process. I get a real feeling of "I don't care what people think of me or what I'm doing" vibe from many of the previous comments in this thread and that is a very good way of thinking in certain aspects of life. But in this case, peoples perception of us no matter how misinformed they are could bring legal indoor vaping so it's knees.

 

[Uma]

You want us to treat it like smoking. But it isn't smoking. I don't want to go stand out in the cold or the rain or the heat like the smokers do, and when I come back inside, I don't want to smell like a smoker.

If *vaping* isn't allowed there, that's one thing. If *smoking* isn't allowed there, that's a completely different thing.

You talk about "change the way people look at you", but you're treating it exactly like smoking, and you think of it as being the same as smoking, so anyone around you is going to think of it as being the same as smoking. Those of us who vape in public are the ones that will change perceptions.

Smoking is going to continue to be limited, more and more. As time goes on, there will be fewer and fewer places you are allowed to smoke. Since vaping dosn't smell like smoking, and doesn't have the same heath issues as smoking, it doesn't make sense to treat it like smoking.

Well said, as per usual.
The bolded part caught my eye in particular because I've already witnessed ANTZ using that scent against Vapers. It's a set up. Sabotage.
See Vaper vaping at the smoke section with the smokers.
Smell Vaper when they come back inside and mingle.
Confirm, Vaper smells like cig smoke.
Confirm, ANTZ are right, due to first hand witnessing.
Sabotage, plain and simple.

 

[Uma]

I agree with you. But it's not really about the science and the numbers here. The average person doesn't think that way (sadly). I think what you quoted me on accurately describes their thought process. I get a real feeling of "I don't care what people think of me or what I'm doing" vibe from many of the previous comments in this thread and that is a very good way of thinking in certain aspects of life. But in this case, peoples perception of us no matter how misinformed they are could bring legal indoor vaping so it's knees.

Which is why the media and those who pay the the media (ANTZ) need to be held accountable,clear the air so to speak, and start campaigning in a respectable, honest, compassionate fashion. They did this mess, they can undo it.

 

[p.opus]

How come every body who has this argument thinks that suddenly all of mankind has lost the ability to smell????!!!!!

I shouldn't vape in public because it LOOKS like I am smoking???? PUHLEEZE. One quick little inhale should tell anyone within 50 feet that I'm not smoking. I can smell cigarette smoke 100 yards away. This whole argument that it "looks like smoking" is laughable at best.

Did anyone else in the doctors office confront this woman? NOPE only the OP. Maybe the rest of the people in the Doctors office realized that vaping is generally nothing to get their panties in a wad over.

Let's give some people the benefit of the doubt that they have their own brains.

As far as no studies being done, perhaps you need to join CSAA and learn what research HAS been done and realize that there is no scientific reason for anyone to be concerned with second hand "vape".

I am not a smoker. I do not expect to be treated like a smoker. I will not vape directly into someones face. But I will not voluntarily submit myself to the same bans as someone who burns tobacco in public.

Here's the question. If we as vapers can't agree that vaping in public poses no significant risk, then how will we convince an already skeptical public of the fact.

The more I ACT like a smoker, my very actions tell the ignorant public that my second hand vapor poses the same risks as second hand smoke.

Public vaping bans are already here in some places. However, we all know just how "enforcaeble" those bans are. I understand where the OP is coming from, but last time I checked, the way one fights for one's rights is not to give them up voluntarily and hope we can convince someone to give them back to us later.

I personally agree to what Dimetri (the vaping greek) said in a recent interview. Instead of coming to town meetings armed with statistics and studies that most people simply roll their eyes and tune out, I would come up to the microphone, APV in hand, take a Huge Toke....Hold it and then exhale.....nothing. I would then ask the town council how they expect to enforce THAT!!!! An unenforceable BAN is a useless ban....Prohibition should have taught us that...

 

[Myk]

Well, I don't smoke or use nicotine at all so I definitely don't consider myself a lesser human nor would I consider anyone else a lesser human who does. I do realize that vaping is not smoking. I have long come to grips with that, however I recognize that others haven't and it still bothers some people who don't know that yet. If everyone ignored these people, it could end up being looked at in a more negative light, vapers may be labelled inconsiderate and vaping may even become banned in these areas. It's still relatively new. I err on the side if patience. I too would love to see wide spread acceptance, but I don't think this can be achieved by exposing people to something they don't yet understand in such an 'in your face, deal with it' kind of way. I say give it time. This is just my opinion of course and our goals in the end are the same.

That stuff doesn't matter. Why do people insist on blaming vapers?
There is about 20% of the population smoking and we'd be lucky to have 2% of that vaping. It's not people vaping in public that has the ANTZ up in arms. They already tried to ban it in 2010 when there were even fewer people vaping. They want it banned because it exists and it's nicotine that they don't profit from.
It is the ANTZ propaganda that has other people up in arms.

If I was no nicotine I wouldn't mind going outside because I wouldn't need to go outside. As it is I need nicotine and it's not because of addiction. I'm not going outside in -14° weather to try to make a tiny metal coil heat up a larger metal wick and supply me with enough nicotine before I froze. I'll simply go out and light up a cigarette.
If I could do no nicotine I'd stay inside and just suck on the ecig for flavor like I did in the ER.

You don't have to be disrespectful but you also don't have to be a doormat.

 

[Myk]

With SHS, a person would have to spend an hour a day for 117,000 years to equal one cigarette. With vaping, we can quadruple that number, because there is no side stream, there are fewer ingredients exhaled, and the vapor dissipates rather than hangs around, providing the room is adequently ventilated. If the vapor hangs, I would change rooms, because that is a sure sign that the exhalations of everyone is definitely lingering. The avg non tobacco user exhales formaldehyde, acetone, ISO-something, and other volatile organic ingredients on a daily basis. The Vaper actually exhales less toxins due to the fact the influenza germs and whatnot are being killed before leaving the body.
This would be common knowledge if the ALA, TFK, ACS, ACA, AG, etc weren't so corrupt.

I would guess even more than 4x. The ANTZ own studies say ecigs give off 10x less nicotine than a cigarette. The other studies have them at 400x-900x safer than cigarettes and second hand is of no risk.
At the worst (for us) it would take over 1 million years of second hand exposure to an ecig to equal one cigarette.

I agree with you. But it's not really about the science and the numbers here. The average person doesn't think that way (sadly). I think what you quoted me on accurately describes their thought process. I get a real feeling of "I don't care what people think of me or what I'm doing" vibe from many of the previous comments in this thread and that is a very good way of thinking in certain aspects of life. But in this case, peoples perception of us no matter how misinformed they are could bring legal indoor vaping so it's knees.

If it's not about the science why reinforce their bad science by giving into it? You're telling them you know they're right.

 

[LDS714]

I would guess even more than 4x. The ANTZ own studies say ecigs give off 10x less nicotine than a cigarette. The other studies have them at 400x-900x safer than cigarettes and second hand is of no risk.
At the worst (for us) it would take over 1 million years of second hand exposure to an ecig to equal one cigarette.





If it's not about the science why reinforce their bad science by giving into it? You're telling them you know they're right.

Because a lie repeated long enough and loudly becomes 'common knowledge.'

We can't even convince brainwashed vapers that they're wrong, we have a huge uphill battle.

 

[p.opus]

Here's the million dollar question. Has anyone been confronted by someone when they exhale NOTHING????

I would say no. I have used my PV (which looks NOTHING like an e-cig...even fellow vapors in my circle of friends want to know what the heck my MVP is...) in public all over the place. And I exhale....nothing.

Live and Let Live. That is my motto. Therefore I find the OP's actions to the vaper much more offensive than those of the "inconsiderate vaper". The OP should have kept their mouth shut, especially when they know that the vaper's activity was not actively harming anyone.

I don't try to dictate how you should live your life, I expect the same courtesy.

But I do think that as vapers we are sometimes our worst enemy. We KNOW that exhaling a big cloud is going to get some peoples panties in a wad. We can control how we exhale. It's not hard to exhale nothing....

When I am in public I make it a point to exhale nothing. I simply give people no ammo to use against me. People don't worry about what they can't see. When they see nothing come out of my mouth, they have nothing to worry about.

 

[Uma]

I would guess even more than 4x. The ANTZ own studies say ecigs give off 10x less nicotine than a cigarette. The other studies have them at 400x-900x safer than cigarettes and second hand is of no risk.
At the worst (for us) it would take over 1 million years of second hand exposure to an ecig to equal one cigarette.





If it's not about the science why reinforce their bad science by giving into it? You're telling them you know they're right.

I agree, was just playing it safe is all. Plus, I hoped the error would be glaringly obvious enough to any ANTZ reading along...

 

[Legolas]

Anytime there's a problem with vaping in a public place it hurts the cause. I don't do it in stores eateries etc.. It's not a problem untill it's pushed in someones face. It bothers me that some do vape in these places. Not a health concern but the more selfish reason that we could just get regulation laws or banning of our beloved products. So if the wife and I go to dinner shopping whatever and its a few hours, I got to admit I've used a empty bathroom and done a stealth vape. I just won't push my vapor on others or want them to see me vaping indoors.

 

[Myk]

Here's the million dollar question. Has anyone been confronted by someone when they exhale NOTHING????

I would say no. I have used my PV (which looks NOTHING like an e-cig...even fellow vapors in my circle of friends want to know what the heck my MVP is...) in public all over the place. And I exhale....nothing.

Live and Let Live. That is my motto. Therefore I find the OP's actions to the vaper much more offensive than those of the "inconsiderate vaper". The OP should have kept their mouth shut, especially when they know that the vaper's activity was not actively harming anyone.

I don't try to dictate how you should live your life, I expect the same courtesy.

But I do think that as vapers we are sometimes our worst enemy. We KNOW that exhaling a big cloud is going to get some peoples panties in a wad. We can control how we exhale. It's not hard to exhale nothing....

When I am in public I make it a point to exhale nothing. I simply give people no ammo to use against me. People don't worry about what they can't see. When they see nothing come out of my mouth, they have nothing to worry about.

Actually my roommate said, "I can smell that" when I WASN'T vaping in the ER.
I said, so, it's not even turned on.

I think the OP doesn't know that there is not harming anyone. Like LDS said, we can't even convince vapers who've been brainwashed. It's definitely an uphill battle.

 

[Ohms Lawbreaker]

.... The OP should have kept their mouth shut .... I don't try to dictate how you should live your life ....

Having it both ways there Opus?

 

[smacuser]

I vape on planes.

 

[p.opus]

Anytime there's a problem with vaping in a public place it hurts the cause. I don't do it in stores eateries etc.. It's not a problem untill it's pushed in someones face. It bothers me that some do vape in these places. Not a health concern but the more selfish reason that we could just get regulation laws or banning of our beloved products. So if the wife and I go to dinner shopping whatever and its a few hours, I got to admit I've used a empty bathroom and done a stealth vape. I just won't push my vapor on others or want them to see me vaping indoors.

The fight to ban and regulate these products was in full swing long before vaping in public was ever an issue. When first introduced down in florida in 2009/2010 there was ZERO blow back. In fact many vape kiosks still exist inside public indoor malls, pushing the benefits of being able to vape where smoking is banned.

The point is, that vaping should be treated like ANY other public activity. Eating, drinking, wearing clothes, cologne, etc. Any of these activities can be considered offensive to some. I might offend a vegetarian with my big azz steak. The vegetarian is expected to "get over it". That is what being in Public is about.

In fact, that is EXACTLY how smoking was treated in the first half of the 20th century before the studies concluded that it was harmful.

ONLY when second hand smoke was proven (dubious at best) to be harmful, were all the laws banning it created. When I was a child, you could still smoke on a plane. Check out the movie Airplane or better yet Airport for a real shock to the system.

There is absolutely no reason vaping should not be given the same benefit of the doubt. You can smell my vape? Well I can smell your Old Spice...we're even...

The maddening thing is that e-cigs are being banned and regulated PRIOR to studies being performed. This doesn't happen to suppliments, this does not happen to any other consumer good at all. It's the other way around....Never in history has an item, made of ingredients already classified by the FDA as generally safe, been banned. And even legislators are smart enough not to argue this point scientifically. Instead they use half truths about glamorizing smoking, normallizing nicotine use, and targeting children. All while out of the other side of their mouth they continue to decrminalize and in some cases legalize the recreational use of another commonly smoked product...

Some how a apple flavored e-liquid is marketed to children, but an apple flavored vodka is not.

It's complete horse crap, and the worst part is, fellow vapers are buying into it. This is NOT about me not being able to "wait" until I leave the store, or resturaunt. This is about my right, like any other persons right, to enjoy an activity that I enjoy in public that does not harm anyone around me. I'm not a drinker, but I don't tell someone who drinks to not drink because children are present and I don't want to "glamorize" drinking...

I do currently stealth vape in that I don't exhale a cloud. The sad part is, I shouldn't have to. The battle I am fighting is that one day, I WON'T have to.

 

[p.opus]

Having it both ways there Opus?

Not at all.

The OP brought up the subject, in a public forum, I responded.

Now had I been in the doctors office, and I saw the OP confront the vaper, and then I injected myself into something that was not my concern, then I would be guilty of the very behavior I was criticizing the OP of doing. I would have kept my mouth shut in an issue that CLEARLY was a private issue between two individuals.

When the OP brings this up in a public forum, they are asking for opinion and a response.

 

[Legolas]

The fight to ban and regulate these products was in full swing long before vaping in public was ever an issue. When first introduced down in florida in 2009/2010 there was ZERO blow back. In fact many vape kiosks still exist inside public indoor malls, pushing the benefits of being able to vape where smoking is banned.

The point is, that vaping should be treated like ANY other public activity. Eating, drinking, wearing clothes, cologne, etc. Any of these activities can be considered offensive to some. I might offend a vegetarian with my big azz steak. The vegetarian is expected to "get over it". That is what being in Public is about.

In fact, that is EXACTLY how smoking was treated in the first half of the 20th century before the studies concluded that it was harmful.

ONLY when second hand smoke was proven (dubious at best) to be harmful, were all the laws banning it created. When I was a child, you could still smoke on a plane. Check out the movie Airplane or better yet Airport for a real shock to the system.

There is absolutely no reason vaping should not be given the same benefit of the doubt. You can smell my vape? Well I can smell your Old Spice...we're even...

The maddening thing is that e-cigs are being banned and regulated PRIOR to studies being performed. This doesn't happen to suppliments, this does not happen to any other consumer good at all. It's the other way around....Never in history has an item, made of ingredients already classified by the FDA as generally safe, been banned. And even legislators are smart enough not to argue this point scientifically. Instead they use half truths about glamorizing smoking, normallizing nicotine use, and targeting children. All while out of the other side of their mouth they continue to decrminalize and in some cases legalize the recreational use of another commonly smoked product...

Some how a apple flavored e-liquid is marketed to children, but an apple flavored vodka is not.

It's complete horse crap, and the worst part is, fellow vapers are buying into it. This is NOT about me not being able to "wait" until I leave the store, or resturaunt. This is about my right, like any other persons right, to enjoy an activity that I enjoy in public that does not harm anyone around me. I'm not a drinker, but I don't tell someone who drinks to not drink because children are present and I don't want to "glamorize" drinking...

I do currently stealth vape in that I don't exhale a cloud. The sad part is, I shouldn't have to. The battle I am fighting is that one day, I WON'T have to.

Sorry but it's this type thinking that will ruin it for all of us. The more we push it on the uninformed the more they will push back. No difference if it's good bad or indifferent.

 

[Nermal]

There is absolutely no reason vaping should not be given the same benefit of the doubt. You can smell my vape? Well I can smell your Old Spice...we're even...

The maddening thing is that e-cigs are being banned and regulated PRIOR to studies being performed. This doesn't happen to suppliments, this does not happen to any other consumer good at all. It's the other way around....Never in history has an item, made of ingredients already classified by the FDA as generally safe, been banned.

Sorry but it's this type thinking that will ruin it for all of us. The more we push it on the uninformed the more they will push back. No difference if it's good bad or indifferent.

I happen to be kind of moderate on the issue too (usually) but someone should mention you haven't begun to address the issues raised by opus.

 

[Myk]

The fight to ban and regulate these products was in full swing long before vaping in public was ever an issue. When first introduced down in florida in 2009/2010 there was ZERO blow back. In fact many vape kiosks still exist inside public indoor malls, pushing the benefits of being able to vape where smoking is banned.

The point is, that vaping should be treated like ANY other public activity. Eating, drinking, wearing clothes, cologne, etc. Any of these activities can be considered offensive to some. I might offend a vegetarian with my big azz steak. The vegetarian is expected to "get over it". That is what being in Public is about.

In fact, that is EXACTLY how smoking was treated in the first half of the 20th century before the studies concluded that it was harmful.

ONLY when second hand smoke was proven (dubious at best) to be harmful, were all the laws banning it created. When I was a child, you could still smoke on a plane. Check out the movie Airplane or better yet Airport for a real shock to the system.

There is absolutely no reason vaping should not be given the same benefit of the doubt. You can smell my vape? Well I can smell your Old Spice...we're even...

The maddening thing is that e-cigs are being banned and regulated PRIOR to studies being performed. This doesn't happen to suppliments, this does not happen to any other consumer good at all. It's the other way around....Never in history has an item, made of ingredients already classified by the FDA as generally safe, been banned. And even legislators are smart enough not to argue this point scientifically. Instead they use half truths about glamorizing smoking, normallizing nicotine use, and targeting children. All while out of the other side of their mouth they continue to decrminalize and in some cases legalize the recreational use of another commonly smoked product...

Some how a apple flavored e-liquid is marketed to children, but an apple flavored vodka is not.

It's complete horse crap, and the worst part is, fellow vapers are buying into it. This is NOT about me not being able to "wait" until I leave the store, or resturaunt. This is about my right, like any other persons right, to enjoy an activity that I enjoy in public that does not harm anyone around me. I'm not a drinker, but I don't tell someone who drinks to not drink because children are present and I don't want to "glamorize" drinking...

I do currently stealth vape in that I don't exhale a cloud. The sad part is, I shouldn't have to. The battle I am fighting is that one day, I WON'T have to.

I think we've tracked it back to 2005 in FL. But yeah, the feds were trying to stop it as early as I was first vaping in '09 and the only way you'd run into another vaper was if you created them. And with the equipment back then it certainly wasn't because of people blowing clouds.

SHS was proven to be harmless as far as cancer goes. That proof was lied about and repeated until it became the truth.
Now even of you post the study stating there is no risk you're a nut case.
Gotta love brainwashing.

Around here they did tell people not to drink to "Save The Children™".
Riverfront concerts used to be fun. But because children may be present they banned alcohol sales. What kids were doing unsupervised at nighttime concerts is anyone's guess but it passed.