Why Vaping won't ever convert the masses (of smokers)

[rice721]

Read through OP's initial post and here's my 2cents regarding the China comment.

Exploding mods hitting the news are "mostly" mechanical mods, mods without a chip to regulated the battery / firebutton (basically any mod without a screen) and is mostly due to users not understanding how to build, what to build, and which batteries to use safely with said build.

Are there social issues in China? Yes, I live in Shanghai, on a day to day basis I see things that make me SMH and wish I was back in the States", but I don't think this has anything to do with their manufacturing and the social issue is beyond the scope of a vaping forum discussion.

Ballparking here, more than half of all consumer electronics come out of China, with that amount of production, we are bound to see QC issues. Are you going to stop purchasing 70" LCD TVs, smartphones, macbooks, pcs, etc b/c someone somewhere was injured due to a malfunction? My guess is no.

I don't own a mech mod nor have I done any research on mech mods, but I'm pretty sure not ALL of them are produced in China. It seems like you're just regurgitating what you read on the news as Anti-China sentiment is high in the US and for warranted reasons which, again, is beyond the scope of this discussion.

I own a plethora of Chinese built RTAs, Clearos, Mods, Chargers, Batteries(?), do I feel less safe using them vs a US made product? Not so much so.

It does seem that you're fairly new and seem to be frustrated with the products you've purchased so far. I agree with you that finding the perfect vaping isn't as simple as lighting up an analog but at least for me its helped me quit a habit that I've acquired since I was 13 for the first time in my life and I intend to keep it that way. Is it worth the time, effort and trouble do to so? Well thats subjective.

 

[TheMike21]

You don't have to like it, I know I don't, but not liking something and denying reality are two different things.

The reality is that the vast majority of people expect everything to be foolproof but fools are very ingenious.

Even with warning labels or safety measures some people still do whatever the hell they want and love blaming others when they get hurt.
Examples:
Helmet law - nuff said
Seat belt law - Seat belt safety (car won't start unless you buckle up) - Buckle up, start car, unbuckle.
Don't drink and drive
Smoking Kills
Don't take this medicine and operate machinery.
Expiration date - we still smell and try the milk after the date
Do Not Put Swab In Ear Canal
Do Not Consume Raw Cookie Dough
For Tobacco Use Only
Do not Microwave
Read the manual before use
Not intended for climbing
...

 

[TheMike21]

smoking caused fires - Google Search

Quick scan of results shows 700-900 fatalities/year
There are a few cigarette-caused burn scars on the bedroom floor in my house...

Thank you for that, more in my favor!

 

[crxess]

I build computers. I'm quite OCD It took me a while (and that list) to realise that a LOT of people are making mistakes when it comes to charging, and if it was a loss of property or pride, I'd say it was part of the learning curve. But they're being maimed for life for the most part.

You seem to be confounding situations.
Rarely is anyone severely injured by a charging Battery failure. Perhaps 90% of those from attempting to pick up something in flames(Lithium Batteries)
Mod Explosions are of a different category -
1) Generally Building below safe resistance for battery choice.
2) miss-matching Tube and Tank design
3) Choosing Wrong Battery type for Vaping application - Li-po vs IMR/INR

Even with these accidents and Careless mistakes you are only talking about a Fraction of a Percent of the Vaping community as a Whole.

*You sound like you Promoting Full on Regulation and/or the removal of products you do not approve of to YOUR satisfaction.

Much the Way an ANTZ Tactic is continually promoted.

By applying this practice:
All Strawberries should be removed from the country due to Strawberry Allergies.
All Milk Cows should be Slaughtered due to lactose intolerance.
Bee's should be driven out to avoid Anaphylactic Shock.
Ban:
Lawn Mowers
Hand Guns
Cheese Shredders
Automobiles
etc.




So.....................Who is up for Bubble Wrapping the Planet?

 

[Shokker]

My experience: I have tried to convince my smoking friends to "convert to" vaping and had a hard time doing it for I think the following reasons:

Even with a 20 buck Ego One AIO out there people overestimate the initial costs of vaping. Even if I present them with a starter kit including coil heads for the first two months for around 40 to 50$ and offer to DIY juice for them they are reluctant. People think in very short term and do not seem able to figure out, that within the very first month they would safe money.

When I manage to convince them to buy a starter kit and coil heads there is another problem arising: Vaping needs planning and maintenance... You have to keep some stock of juice or coils, because they are not broadly available (in the sense cigarettes are). You have to think about worst case scenarios like hardware failure/loss etc.

So far I have convinced half a dozen people to quit smoking and start vaping. Half of them did not last three months and went back to smoking. The other ones have periods where they smoke cigarettes ("I lost my ecig at the party last weekend...", "I just need normal cigarettes during my finals.." etc.) but are on track for the most part.

Pretty frustrating when you have that great devices and lack of planning and maintaining prevents success.

 

[crxess]

Most personal electronic devices nowadays do not pose that risk, and the masses are expecting the same safety from ALL commercial vape gear. Should they have this expectation?

So..................all Hyundai's and no Range Rovers or Lambo's?

Both the Op and you keep Talking about THE MASSES and yet ignore that the MASSES pick up Cig-a-likes to start Vaping.
Some are guided to to better performing gear like EGO kits.
The Minority start out by running to a Vape shop to Purchase Shiny new Tube Modes.

As for Safer - the industry is continually improving and if left to do its job, will continue to improve.

One cannot simply expect good products to be removed from market due to the Dumbing down of general society.

People need to start assuming some responsibility.

Only Banning products out of existence would Guarantee 100% incidence avoidance.
Back to the Caves - no Clubs or Rocks, you might get hurt. Don't worry about the wild animals, they don't eat much

 

[NOVA jon]

***dadatdadatdadat news flash***

Life isn't easy.......

If I could go back to being 4 years old and have everything handed to me as well as someone wiping my bum, wouldn't life be grand.......

We all make choices about the betterment of our lot in life. I understand not everyone is going to do what it takes to make the switch work for them. Thankfully, I'm not that person. I WANTED to be as informed as possible on every aspect as it pertained to me as I progressed my way to finding what worked for me. Understanding the inherent possibilities and dangers that come with it!

 

[Vaslovik]

All the box mods, it appears, without exception (please someone tell me I'm wrong. PLEASE!) are made in China.

Okay, you're wrong.

All things Dryad • MMVapors

Made in Greece by hard working dedicated people who have served me very well despite the economic crisis there. I don't use box mods, but if I did get one, I'd get theirs.

 

[muth]

Just quickly wanted to add that youtube vids helped me, as well. I just looked for the categories I needed at the time, ie., how to clean your coils, how to rebuild a coil head, how to wrap a coil, how to wick a certain device and on and on.......

 

[Munk]

So, are we arguing that what I'm saying is untrue, or that it sucks? I never said it didn't suck, only that it's true.

Perhaps you've made some assumptions about what I've said and why. Never once did I imply there ought to be regulations on vape gear. In fact, on multiple occasions, I've said the exact opposite and that people need to be responsible for their own actions.

All I'm doing is highlighting the reality that we live in. No amount of quoting or sarcasm will change the fact that the most people don't want to have to "work" in order to vape, nor do they want to assume the risk of disfigurement if they accidentally choose the wrong equipment, or build a coil wrong, or miscalculate something, or run a battery too low, or if a lead screw loosens and causes a short, etc.

So I ask again, is it that you think I'm wrong about most people not wanting to deal with those things, or do you just not like it?

 

[Vaslovik]

When I manage to convince them to buy a starter kit and coil heads there is another problem arising: Vaping needs planning and maintenance... You have to keep some stock of juice or coils, because they are not broadly available (in the sense cigarettes are). You have to think about worst case scenarios like hardware failure/loss etc.

Oh yes! This!

I got the man I was living with the take up vaping as a means to quit smoking, and found that I had to do everything for him! He would not maintain his vape, I had to do that for him, I had to provide the juice I made because he could not be bothered to go buy any, and in the end he would not even bother to charge his batteries and just went back to smoking on the sly, hiding his cigs in his car where I found them when he asked me to get something out of it.

He wasn't willing to do anything about vaping for himself, and now he's abandoned it because I'm not there to do it all for him anymore. He was like this about too many things, which is why we are not together anymore.

He wanted it all done for him so he didn't have to bother with it, and the OP is right about one thing, those kinds of people will never be converted. They are too lazy and STUPID to save their own lives or protect their own health.

 

[Zutankhamun]

I have used mech mods (just for a week or two) as safely as I could. It seemed to me that there were too many safety practices to be concerned about while just chilling, but each to his own. For many though, these safety practices are just good, easy habits to master. There is a risk associated with many interesting things and hopefully people will realize that you can't always blame the product for your own mistakes.

 

[crxess]

The fundamental problem with all e-cigarettes, the ones that 'do the job' correctly, the flaw that will always be the thorn in it's size.

...is China.

You may call me racist, I have nothing against the Chinese. But let's put the cards on the table. They aren't known globally for their standards. You read stories every day about people dying over there, or being horrifically injured by machinery that has failed or gone awry due to their poor (or non-existant) safety standards.

All the box mods, it appears, without exception (please someone tell me I'm wrong. PLEASE!) are made in China.

Racist, maybe not. Ignorant..........probably so.

No not all Box mods are made in China. <<<<<< See, right there you are not doing due diligence. Research before comment. ProVape USA
Now as to Standards - every country on this planet has certain manufacturers that undercut quality for profit.
Why is China so noticeable over other countries? Because they are by far the largest industrial country in the World.
Does this mean everything out of China is shoddy low quality junk. Not Even Close.

Will Chinese manufacturers meet Consumer demands? In a heartbeat, within reason.
Quality - Yihi SX M Series Mods .......... Apple Ipads, etc.
Pricing - iSticks, Clones..............Novelty items, etc.

You place the request and the quality requirements, they come back with cost to produce. You decide whether to reduce quality for profit or accept cost and order.
Business is business.

Very difficult to interact with one that wears such narrow blinders.

x-Million Vapers
x-dozen incidents and you attempt to create a panic over safety and control.

Well, responsible people take control - over their actions. Responsible people Share their knowledge in order to help other along.

Governments Ban or Slap labels all over everything...............and say - we did our job, your Tax is $$$

Private interest Groups Dictate to those governments what They Need the People to Believe, have and how to live

Personal Freedom does come at some cost. It seems many are not willing to pay that price and would prefer to be Regulated and controlled in order to live a Safe life under Dictatorship.

 

[Zutankhamun]

I think your right about 'people not wanting to deal with those things' @Munk
However, that line of thinking is not helpful. By that reasoning you shouldn't have to learn how to drive properly.
Just jump in a B.M.W and cruise to your death.
It's not the cars fault...
I think both statements are right.

 

[Vaslovik]

I have used mech mods (just for a week or two) as safely as I could. It seemed to me that there were too many safety practices to be concerned about while just chilling, but each to his own. For many though, these safety practices are just good, easy habits to master. There is a risk associated with many interesting things and hopefully people will realize that you can't always blame the product for your own mistakes.

I've used nothing but mechs for 3 years now, and I don't spend time laboriously going over safety procedures, I just did my homework, determined what batteries to use with what builds and settled into a safe build for the batteries I chose, those being Sony VTC4's, and the build being .7 ohm gennies. I do check my resistance on each build, and make sure there are no shorts before putting that genny on that mech, but it's not like it's a lot of work and bother each time, not at all. Building a genny for me is like tying my shoes, so I don't buy the argument that mechs are too much bother.

 

[Zutankhamun]

That's fair enough. Its just that for me that I didn't feel as comfortable knowing that 'if' I had forgotten to lock my switch I may have had a problem. It wasn't conducive to having a relaxing vape when I knew I couldn't just doze off on the couch with the mech in my hand. I suppose at least I am aware of the mistakes I could have made. But if you fell asleep with your cigarette lit it wouldn't be the cigs fault - its yours.

 

[Vaslovik]

That's fair enough. Its just that for me that I didn't feel as comfortable knowing that 'if' I had forgotten to lock my switch I may have had a problem. It wasn't conducive to having a relaxing vape when I knew I couldn't just doze off on the couch with the mech in my hand. I suppose at least I am aware of the mistakes I could have made. But if you fell asleep with your cigarette lit it wouldn't be the cigs fault - its yours.

I get that, the locking button thing. That's why I don't care for bottom button mechs, and instead use top/side button mechs, Poldiacs. I have 4 of them now, looking for a 5th. I just set them down without worry, knowing they are not going to fire. I've never dozed off on the couch with one in my hand, but then I never use the couch here. I swiped the cushions off it for pillows. If' I'm going to lay down the mechs stay on my desk.

 

[sawlight]

There are also plenty of mechs with a recessed bottom button, so it's not an issue with them either. I've used mechs for years myself, I love them for the durability, simplicity and ease of use. It's not rocket surgery by any means! Most of my builds are .8 ohms and up, average is 1.2 ohms. I certainly don't think they are any less safe than a regulated mod. In fact, I think it's a toss up at times. How many reports have we seen lately of reg mods going into "auto fire" mode for no reason? I've seen a Zmax melt itself after getting too much juice on the board. That didn't seem that "safe" to me!
But to go on with the "safety" issue, how many people have lost fingers to lawn mowers? I know my dentist did, took him a long time to recover! I remember hearing of someone once picking up a mower and trying to use it to trim their hedge! Ever wonder why your lawn mower stops when you take your hands off the push handle? Now you know!
"Mr. Bean" wrecked his McLaren F1 TWICE before he figured out it was too much car for him, Rowan Atkinson’s McLaren F1: from twice-crashed mess to £8m icon
I'm a member of a few chainsaw/tree forums, read the accidents these seasoned pros have with chainsaws etc! I know two guys that had their feet crushed, one by the outrigger on a crane, another a log slipped out of the choke hold while on a crane. A good friend of mine was slashing brush in a roll of dumpster, to make room, slipped and sliced half is face off! He's lucky to have an eye, even has a glass tear duct in that eye! Ask anyone of them and they'll tell you it was just a dumb mistake! Tired, towards the end of the day, trying to hurry, etc!
I've been around power tools all my life, cut my left thumb off at the first knuckle with a miter saw. Stupid move!! I slide my thumb in the way of the cut to keep a broad from hitting the floor, the blade bound up and kicked back on me. Nothing like watching your thumb fly across the garage! Just plain STUPID!
Nothing is safe, but everything is as safe as you make it! It comes down to how much grey matter between your ears are you willing to use to make it safe?

 

[Munk]

I think your right about 'people not wanting to deal with those things' @Munk
However, that line of thinking is not helpful. By that reasoning you shouldn't have to learn how to drive properly.
Just jump in a B.M.W and cruise to your death.
It's not the cars fault...
I think both statements are right.

But that's the issue. There is no line of thinking...I'm not trying to imply or suggest anything other than what I typed. I'm not hinting at political implications nor am I assigning blame to the device . Once again, people are responsible for their own choices. It's the same with driving, using power tools, owning firearms, having a healthy diet, etc.

 

[crxess]

But that's the issue. There is no line of thinking...I'm not trying to imply or suggest anything other than what I typed. I'm not hinting at political implications nor am I assigning blame to the device . Once again, people are responsible for their own choices. It's the same with driving, using power tools, owning firearms, having a healthy diet, etc.

Oops...............you just fell off the Devils advocate stand