FDA WV Politician takes on FDA

Status
Not open for further replies.

DC2

Tootie Puffer
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 21, 2009
24,161
40,973
San Diego
The whole NRT versus vaping nictone issue is simply maddening. "Oh, well this nicotine, why that - that's good nicotine. But that nicotine, that's the spawn of Satan, and cancer stuff and... children."

So the objection must be the delivery system, right? "Inhaling. Inhaling nicotine is bad."

how-does-nicotrol-inhaler-work2.png


Package_15412.JPG


mod3_fig4.gif


nicorette-ch-productpage-inhaler_0.jpg


C9094_HERO1b.jpg


:facepalm:
I think you just summarized in one single (and simple) post...
Why this whole thing is beyond any kind of reason or common sense...

And you did so in a way that any human being should be able to easily understand...

And yet here we are.

Why?
Mainstream Media.

And tonight we're gonna party like it's 1984.
 

DaveP

PV Master & Musician
ECF Veteran
May 22, 2010
16,733
42,641
Central GA
The whole NRT versus vaping nictone issue is simply maddening. "Oh, well this nicotine, why that - that's good nicotine. But that nicotine, that's the spawn of Satan, and cancer stuff and... children."

So the objection must be the delivery system, right? "Inhaling. Inhaling nicotine is bad."

The end game objective may just be to classify the extracted nicotine product in juice to be a controlled substance pharma product. Then, it becomes something that must be packaged and sold by pharmaceutical companies at a much higher price.

Why the heck does it matter if we get nicotine from cigarettes, e-cigarettes, or some pharma based inhaler? Well, it's the freedom to choose that's at stake.

I found it amusing that non-nicotine ecigs must carry the label "This product is made from tobacco".

Vaporizers, E-Cigarettes, and other Electronic Nicotine Delivery Systems (ENDS)

If the tobacco product manufacturer submits a self-certification statement to FDA that the newly-regulated tobacco product does not contain nicotine (and that the manufacturer has data to support this assertion), then an alternate statement must be used on product packages and advertisements:

“This product is made from tobacco.”

You can find more information about nicotine warning statements in Deeming Tobacco Products To Be Subject to the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act.
 
Last edited:

Firestorm

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 25, 2012
2,882
6,566
Chicagoland
I found it amusing that non-nicotine ecigs must carry the label "This product is made from tobacco".

I find it amusing that programmable software, batteries, cotton, wire, and plastic or glass jars must carry the label "This product is made from tobacco".
 

VNeil

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 30, 2014
2,726
6,866
Ocean City, MD
Yes, already an estimated 9 million no longer contribute to Big Tobacco in the U.S.. He's expecting that to double to 18 million within the next few years.

On average say a pack of cigarettes costs $6.00.

There are 10 packs per carton. This is $60.00 per carton, prior to taxes.

Let's keep it simple and go with a flat rate of 10% tax.

Add $6.00 to $60.00 = $66.00 per carton * on average 2 cartons a month = $132.00 monthly * 12 months = $1,584.00.

Now, let's take say $1,500 to be conservative, graceful and multiply that by 1 million = $1,500,000,000.00 that is 1.5 billion dollars that big tobacco does not see annually from only 1 million consumers.

We have 9 million consumers so that is $13,500,000,000.00, 13.5 billion big tobacco is not getting a year.

If we double that consumer base in the next few years $27,000,000,000.00 27 billion dollars will go away from Big Tobacco.

Alright, now that is only here in the United States. England and the U.K. seem keen to have their health care system be dispensing vaping to get smokers to quit big tobacco products. I do not know even estimated figures for there.

I question, if there is 27 billion in only the United States is that not enough incentive to provide motive for collusion, conspiracy & R.I.C.O? The governmental agencies are nothing if not an organized system. When such a system is used in criminal endeavors is it not organized crime?

At any rate, now you can see what Big Tobacco is fighting to hold on. I'm not too bright but it seems to me that when I try taking away a rawhide from dog's they fight against me, $27 billion buys a lot of rawhides. This is per year. Now, let us think in terms of 5 years. My calculator does the weird error bit. Let me do rough estimate though, 20 billion a year times 5 years is 100 billion, that is 1/10th of 1 trillion.

I'll toss out another estimate here to show some difference. If I recall correctly, it would cost me about $35 per year to get the ingredients, mix up a simple 1.8mg/mL nicotine juice of half PG & half VG. Compare $35 to our graceful figure of $1,500 annually for big tobacco. Let me say I may spend $70 a year on hardware. That is still only $105 a year. It is spent on something that is proving out to work for a majority of smokers, is less risky than drugs, gums, patches, cigarettes. Word after word vapers are in some cases literally singing praises of how vaping has saved their lives, or lives of loved ones.

I have strong doubt be any prohibition.

No, no small group of motivated, people ever did a thing at all. Forget that America was founded by any such group. Forget any such group allegedly went to the moon & back.

We vapers are apparently being a rather large fly in someone's ointment lest there would not be such a torrent of force set to oppose us.
I know this is old but it needs to be said. These calculations are all wrong. The tobacco industry does not get that $6/pack. They get about $1. The retailer gets about a dollar. The state and federal govt's get about $3.30, making them a majority partner but they do nothing for it.
 

BuGlen

Divergent
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 6, 2012
1,952
3,976
Tampa, Florida
I know this is old but it needs to be said. These calculations are all wrong. The tobacco industry does not get that $6/pack. They get about $1. The retailer gets about a dollar. The state and federal govt's get about $3.30, making them a majority partner but they do nothing for it.

Actually, they do quite a bit for that majority share of the profit. They make sure that the traditional cigarette market is protected through legislation and regulation. They fund "science for sale" type research to sway public opinion on any and all alternatives. They support the bootleggers and baptists markets, and all the government and NGO jobs they create.

They might not do anything that they should be doing, but they're definitely doing something.
 

VNeil

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 30, 2014
2,726
6,866
Ocean City, MD
Actually, they do quite a bit for that majority share of the profit. They make sure that the traditional cigarette market is protected through legislation and regulation. They fund "science for sale" type research to sway public opinion on any and all alternatives. They support the bootleggers and baptists markets, and all the government and NGO jobs they create.

They might not do anything that they should be doing, but they're definitely doing something.
How they spend their income has nothing to do with what they did or didn't do to earn it.
 

Kent C

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 12, 2009
26,547
60,050
NW Ohio US
I know this is old but it needs to be said. These calculations are all wrong. The tobacco industry does not get that $6/pack. They get about $1. The retailer gets about a dollar. The state and federal govt's get about $3.30, making them a majority partner but they do nothing for it.

Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

saw this at Yahoo - so take it for what it's worth:
Per pack cost : 27 - 35 cents a pack.
RJ Reynolds price to dealer 63 - 87 cents a pack.
Average store profit $1 the rest is tax.

Source: have worked for rjr since 1982.
(a month ago)
 
  • Like
Reactions: LaraC

VNeil

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 30, 2014
2,726
6,866
Ocean City, MD
Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

saw this at Yahoo - so take it for what it's worth:
Per pack cost : 27 - 35 cents a pack.
RJ Reynolds price to dealer 63 - 87 cents a pack.
Average store profit $1 the rest is tax.

Source: have worked for rjr since 1982.
(a month ago)
If you research the federal, state and msa payments that is about right. The total tax in VA (before retail sales tax) is about $1.60 (including $0.30 for MSA payments but that could be as high as $0.80)

I used to buy Tahoe brand cigs in VA for $2.70/pk. That left about $1 for the Tobacco manufacturer and the retailer. I suspect the retailer margins were slim where I bought them.

In Maryland not only do we have a $2/pk state tax but minimum retail pricing. So I could never buy off brand cigs like Tahoe that I bought in VA.
 

Rickajho

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Apr 23, 2011
11,841
21,763
Boston MA
I know this is old but it needs to be said. These calculations are all wrong. The tobacco industry does not get that $6/pack. They get about $1. The retailer gets about a dollar. The state and federal govt's get about $3.30, making them a majority partner but they do nothing for it.

According to this 2009 CDC information regarding minimum cigarette pricing, that manufacturer wholesale figure is closer to $3.40 a pack - not $1.00 ~> State Cigarette Minimum Price Laws --- United States, 2009
 

VNeil

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 30, 2014
2,726
6,866
Ocean City, MD
Last edited:

Katya

ECF Guru
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 23, 2010
34,804
120,145
SoCal
:offtopic:

Please sign, share, tweet!

Stand with Senator Ron Johnson - Sign the Petition

R62Wv0x.jpg



"I stand with the over 24 million Americans involved in the vaping industry and support Senator Ron Johnson’s efforts to save the industry by demanding a response from the FDA regarding their recent regulations."
 

DaveP

PV Master & Musician
ECF Veteran
May 22, 2010
16,733
42,641
Central GA
In my lifetime, single packs of cigarettes went from 35 cents a pack (Marlboros) to as much as $5 a pack. Before I quit in 2011, I was paying $36 for a carton of Dorals and they were some of the cheapest. You had to shop around for that price, though.

Vaping as it stands now is much cheaper. Once the hardware is paid for I can vape for about $2 a day or less buying pre-mixed Hangsen or Dekang juice. Those who DIY are saving loads of money.
 
Last edited:

MyMagicMist

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 28, 2014
1,159
2,467
51
In my lifetime, single packs of cigarettes went from 35 cents a pack (Marlboros) to as much as $5 a pack. Before I quit in 2011, I was paying $36 for a carton of Dorals and they were some of the cheapest. You had to shop around for that price, though.

Vaping as it stands now is much cheaper. Once the hardware is paid for I can vape for about $2 a day or less buying pre-mixed Hangsen or Dekang juice. Those who DIY are saving loads of money.

If I averaged figures correctly, would be spending around $0.15 - $0.20 per day to vape. That is inclusive of hardware costs averaged in via cost of ownership & recharging. So, roughly I come to $0.18 per day times 365 days per year == $65.70. That would be vaping using unflavored 18mg strength juice, self made coils. It may even be less than this average though. Will find out.
 

VNeil

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 30, 2014
2,726
6,866
Ocean City, MD
  • Like
Reactions: LaraC and DC2
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread