10th and 11th Vaping Deaths

[zoiDman]

I find this whole situation fishy too. I watched the 2 recent hearings and the doctors all seemed reluctant to discuss illegal THC carts.

The Department of Health in Massachusetts still hasn't asked any of the people who got sick what they were vaping. Boston has great hospitals with superb doctors. And yet these medical cases remain "mysterious" at least according to what the public is told.

Why would someone like the Massachusetts Department of Health come out and say what the Cause of All this is? When they can just pull the e-Cigarette Bunching Bag out of the Closet and go Another Round on it?

And by Blaming it on e-Cigarettes, doesn't that Shift Blame Off an Exploding Market (which you might have been Instrumental in creating) where a Lot of Venture Capitalist are getting Filthy Rich?

Seems like a Win - Win to me.

And the Only People who Lose are a bunch of 2nd Class Citizens, ie: Smokers and "Vapers".

BTW - But I can't count How Many Times I have heard people here say "Follow the Money". But It's Funny. The THC Market is conservatively estimated to be worth 10 Times what the e-Cigarette Market is worth.

Maybe that Money Trail is worth Following also?

 

[kross8]

Hello, Zelda! They are correct. Black market carts are killing people--that's been established already. The question is which carts, exactly, and what substance, if one (there may be more than one), is responsible for causing those strange respiratory problems.

Vitamin E isnt cheap compared to a bottle of Crisco,,, I suspect they were cutting all of the juices with any thick cheap oil

Vitamin E was likely a gimmick at first

 

[Katya]

Vitamin E isnt cheap compared to a bottle of Crisco,,,

 

[Baditude]

@AttyPops I'm a retired PA, so when I found out that I could have my choice of seeing a PA or MD, I chose the PA. The doc was older. The PA was younger and only a few years out of PA school. I figured someone youmger would be more open minded to vaping and I was correct. Didn't bother me that she was cute, too.

 

[zelda]

Hello, Zelda! They are correct. Black market carts are killing people--that's been established already. The question is which carts, exactly, and what substance, if one (there may be more than one), or a combination of substances, are responsible for causing those strange respiratory problems.

Hey Katya! They need to get a few of those bad carts and analyze them. I assume there's a few oils being used. Unfortunately I'm sure some of the sick people are too afraid to just give one to their doctor.

 

[Katya]

They need to get a few of those bad carts and analyze them.

They are. The problem is that there are many different black market carts in the wild. It really is a health crisis. You know as well as I do that people have been vaping for almost 12 years all over the world and nobody ever got sick from it. And suddenly this crap hits the fan--and not in other countries, mind you, only in US. Why?

 

[zelda]

Why would someone like the Massachusetts Department of Health come out and say what the Cause of All this is? When they can just pull the e-Cigarette Bunching Bag out of the Closet and go Another Round on it?

And by Blaming it on e-Cigarettes, doesn't that Shift Blame Off an Exploding Market (which you might have been Instrumental in creating) where a Lot of Venture Capitalist are getting Filthy Rich?

Seems like a Win - Win to me.

And the Only People who Lose are a bunch of 2nd Class Citizens, ie: Smokers and "Vapers".

BTW - But I can't count How Many Times I have heard people here say "Follow the Money". But It's Funny. The THC Market is conservatively estimated to be worth 10 Times what the e-Cigarette Market is worth.

Maybe that Money Trail is worth Following also?

And our Governor gets a lot of nationwide publicity. Not all as positive as I'm sure he hoped.

It's just outrageous to me there isn't a big statewide warning about buying black market carts instead of banning vaping.

 

[zelda]

They are. The problem is that there are many different black market carts in the wild. It really is a health crisis. You know as well as I do that people have been vaping for almost 12 years all over the world and nobody ever got sick from it. And suddenly this crap hits the fan--and not in other countries, mind you, only in US. Why?

My state has blamed the sicknesses on vaping with no differentiation between THC carts or nicotine. We know there's a rapid onset of symptoms which is just happening recently. And deadly in some cases. Since the carts are showing up in several states they must be prevalent. I don't know how their distribution can be stopped.

 

[Woofer]

And suddenly this crap hits the fan--and not in other countries, mind you, only in US. Why?

There is the million dollar question!

 

[Blitzdonlife]

He's always been supportive of my vaping. He used to smoke an occasional cigar himself, years ago, when he was young and unafraid, but after intensive training and subsequent board-certification in pulmonology, he stopped altogether, eventually.

When I discovered vaping in 2009, we both looked at the ingredients in e-liquids and he said, Go for it--I'm sure it's much, much better than smoking. He's still on board.

Thank you for the response. It's good to have someone close to you that is supportive and has good medical knowledge.

 

[Katya]

Thank you for the response. It's good to have someone close to you that is supportive and has good medical knowledge.

Yes it is. It's also comforting to know that he is, quietly, always monitoring medical journals--just in case.

 

[airidosas252]

Many actually hide the fact they were vaping illegal THC cartridges.
You could go to court for this illegal activity. That's why many people actually hide this.
I don't know how and where they got these cartridges and what the clerk was saying when buying.

 

[IgnorantCig]

Does it matter which brand or which carts specifically?

Anybody who is informed should just stay away from all black market carts. Anybody using black market carts at this point in time is just being plain dumb in my opinion and they're potentially putting themselves at great harm or worse (death).

Given the choice, I'd prefer not to play Russian Vape Roulette, but that's just me.

I remember first coming across black market carts a couple of years ago when they were exploding in popularity in my area. Weed dealers weren't just selling plain weed anymore, they were also selling THC carts, which was the latest trend.

I tried the carts a couple of times, since I had never tried them before and wanted to see what all of the hype was about. Supposedly mine were original, they were not cheap and they were sourced from a dispensery on the west coast, but of course, there is no way of knowing that for sure.

Luckily for me, the second cart failed, the wick had burnt out, and the cart was still half full. I was vaping at 14 watts I think, and that was maybe too much for the wick in that cart to handle. I decided then that these expensive carts were not worth it for me (mostly because of the cost), and I have since then stuck to regular, good old fashioned weed, which I now vape in a dry vape pen, and that works rather well.

Not long after that, I remember reading on reddit about all of the fakes and counterfeit carts that were being sold, and that definitely cemented my position to never again buy any black market carts. There was no talk of any illness or people getting sick at the time, but just the fact that there were so many fakes being sold was a good enough reason for me to stay away from them, along with their high cost.

I've known about the counterfeits and fakes for a very long time now (years), and I have to say, I'm not really that surprised by the recent news of tainted carts.

But, ultimately, I place the blame on clueless, corrupt politicians and the govt, because prohibition never works. Prohibition wasn't effective from 1920-1933 with alcohol, and it's not effective at all today with cannabis. Cannabis is everywhere and there's a huge market for it. Prohibition creates the perfect environment for dangerous black market products to exist.

 

[Katya]

Supposedly mine were original, they were not cheap and they were sourced from a dispensery on the west coast, but of course, there is no way of knowing that for sure.

Yep. That's the problem--it's not just black market anymore. A California teen almost died after vaping a legally purchased THC cart from a licensed dispensary in Sacramento just a week or so ago...

 

[IgnorantCig]

Yep. That's the problem--it's not just black market anymore. A California teen almost died after vaping a legally purchased THC cart from a licensed dispensary in Sacramento just a week or so ago...

I found this article, which I believe is about the teen you are referring to.

Ricky D'Ambrosio bought his last cannabis oil cartridge last month at a California marijuana dispensary that "felt legitimate, but wasn't in the best part of town."

Sketchy THC vape products. Sneaky teens. How patchwork regulations on e-cigarettes led to health crisis
Sketchy THC vape products. Sneaky teens. How patchwork regulations on e-cigarettes led to health crisis

 

[dreamvaper]

Vapers who vape normal e-juices (or salts) shouldn't worry about the vit E oil much.
Even if any of the e-juice ingredient is contaminated with the oil, you will be able to clearly see it as oil will be stock on top of the liquid.

 

[AttyPops]

@AttyPops I'm a retired PA, so when I found out that I could have my choice of seeing a PA or MD, I chose the PA. The doc was older. The PA was younger and only a few years out of PA school. I figured someone youmger would be more open minded to vaping and I was correct. Didn't bother me that she was cute, too.

Yeah, I wasn't bashing PA's. Just to be clear. It's often one or the other, these days more often PA's. My "main" doc is actually a PA, working under supervision of course.

 

[AttyPops]

OK, "They" should know that since people have been vaping for a decade+ and that these incidents are with younger vapers who haven't been vaping this long, that it's likely not "vaping" that's causing this. And in fact some of the earlier reports did mention this, and that it "looked like a case of having a contaminant".

So depending on the reporting, you got more/better information. But to be fair to "them", "they" did notice this.

Communicating is hard, and also political and also there's this "abundance of caution" thing that happens. At the grossest level, they knew it was "vaping related" and some didn't cop to using THC...and maybe some didn't use it!

What if a vendor mixed their juice with Vit-E-a instead of VG, because they also used it for THC/CBD stuff? Or maybe some VG was contaminated? Cheap-azz VG. Not all VG is created equally.

So yeah, I hate the imprecise reporting too, but I'm pretty sure the true scientists here are either being cautious or they're being specific and the media is f-ing it all up. With the help of BT, congress, governors, and probably some "master plan" that's already in the works and this crap hits the fan at the same time. Leveraging disaster. It's right up there with ambulance chasing. But I'm not sure I blame the CDC proper. I think.

 

[Sloth Tonight]

What if a vendor mixed their juice with Vit-E-a instead of VG, because they also used it for THC/CBD stuff? Or maybe some VG was contaminated? Cheap-azz VG. Not all VG is created equally.

Very interesting point. It would not surprise me one bit.

 

[Baditude]

It is quite out of the ordinary how the CDC has been handling this lung crisis. I hear reports that the CDC told physicians NOT to order illicit drug screens on patients presenting with these symptoms. Why? That would ordinarily be medical protocal. This is beginning to read like a Robin Cook medical novel. It sounds real fishy how the CDC is handling this crisis. Their slow release of even the smallest of details is giving policy makers plenty of time to enact unecessary bans fed by a fearmongering media frenzy. Rest assured, whoever manufactured these tainted THC carts, there are still thousands still on the street to be sold to dumb kids.

Uh, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof....

But Juul carts are not used for THC/CBD oils, are they? I thought that even the fakes were filled with e-juice--nic only + PG and VG and flavoring. Why would they add Vit. E acetate to nicotine vapes????

Ahem. Where do you hear those? Testing for illicit drugs may or may not be protocol when a patient presents with pneumonia--depends on circumstances. But I can't imagine that CDC would ever issue such an order. Or that any physician in this country (be it ER doc, pulmonologist, or hospitalist) would ever follow such an order. It just makes no sense.

The only way that would make sense is if:
1) they already know what the problem is in some cases and
2) the patient cops to using the substance-in-question.

So they could come to a conclusion without the need for the screen, and maybe just take a sample for later or something. Turn it over to the CDC and let them deal with it.

But if that were the case, why don't they come out with it and 'splain?

So yeah, it's fishy if true. I'm putting it all firmly in the rumor category. Pretty good one though, if you're trying to prove conspiracy and discredit them. But if I were them, I'd be ...... at such a rumor if it were false.

But again I ask...why now? It just seems so, hmmm...timely?

I find this whole situation fishy too. I watched the 2 recent hearings and the doctors all seemed reluctant to discuss illegal THC carts.

The Department of Health in Massachusetts still hasn't asked any of the people who got sick what they were vaping. Boston has great hospitals with superb doctors. And yet these medical cases remain "mysterious" at least according to what the public is told.

They don't. I am married to a pulmonologist and have a kid in med school (3rd year--they just had a big lecture the other day about what's going on and what to look for in patients presenting with any kind of respiratory distress). They are talking about it, looking at x-rays, trying to find the common denominator--if there is one. There may be several. It's a very new phenomenon.

Then they document it and report to CDC. That's protocol. And by now, they all know to ask about the substance-in-question. Doctors also know that patients lie--especially those who live in states where the substance in question in illegal. Doctors are not total idiots.

Ok, all I could find in a brief search about the accusation that the CDC was telling the docs to not test for drug use was second hand information by a lot of the folks in the vapor trade associations. No actual data or links.

I did have some related information on the CDC and black market THC vials.

Dank Vapes Is the "Biggest Conspiracy" in Pot That Can Put You in a Coma | Inverse

The Rest of the Story: Tobacco and Alcohol News Analysis and Commentary: CDC's Failure to Demand Urine THC Testing of All Outbreak Patients is Inexcusable and is Putting the Entire Nation at Risk

Tests show bootleg marijuana vapes tainted with hydrogen cyanide

Siegel on vaping-linked lung news: Why is CDC ‘protecting marijuana drug cartel?’

Siegel: ‘Don’t let the CDC fool you;’ Agency is playing with children’s lives

In new presser, FDA repeatedly and intentionally misuses the term ‘vaping’

CDC Says Illegal Vape Drugs, Not Vaping, Responsible For Rash Of Hospitalizations

Police seize 75,000 THC vape cartridges in Minnesota valued at $3.8M

Illegal Cannabis Oil Linked To National Outbreak of Lung Damage | The Marijuana Times

THC found in Wisconsin vaping cases that led to illnesses

Vape Facts : CDC Data Exposes The Truth

Could This Contaminant Be Causing the Mysterious Vaping-Related Illnesses?

Trussville man arrested, accused of selling drugs to teenagers

The Rest of the Story: Tobacco and Alcohol News Analysis and Commentary: Results from National Survey Show that CDC's Communication about Respiratory Disease Outbreak Has Been a Public Health Disaster

https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...eadly-lung-illnesses-state-federal-labs-show/

Vaping Bad: Were 2 Wisconsin Brothers the Walter Whites of THC Oils?

My perspective on the THC Vape health issues (cannabis lab director)