10th and 11th Vaping Deaths

[AttyPops]

And the Honey Cut, etc. history.

Yeah, um...I'm sure they'll cooperate with the investigation, and pretty sure they're in seriously deep stuff here. Even if morally innocent, this one bites. I'd not want to be them right now. Nor would I dump all the blame on them either...just to be clear.

 

[AttyPops]

But juul carts are not used for THC/cbd oils, are they? I thought that even the fakes were filled with e-juice--nic only + PG and VG and flavoring. Why would they add Vit. E acetate to nicotine vapes????

Well, we know that some are combo vapes.

As to how many street Juul carts have been adulterated? IDK. But betting some. Given the popularity of the device, and the substance in question, someone must have tried it.

Besides, who says it's limited to Juul?

 

[Katya]

I hear reports that the CDC told physicians NOT to order illicit drug screens on patients presenting with these symptoms.

Ahem. Where do you hear those? Testing for illicit drugs may or may not be protocol when a patient presents with pneumonia--depends on circumstances. But I can't imagine that CDC would ever issue such an order. Or that any physician in this country (be it ER doc, pulmonologist, or hospitalist) would ever follow such an order. It just makes no sense.

 

[AttyPops]

The only way that would make sense is if:
1) they already know what the problem is in some cases and
2) the patient cops to using the substance-in-question.

So they could come to a conclusion without the need for the screen, and maybe just take a sample for later or something. Turn it over to the CDC and let them deal with it.

But if that were the case, why don't they come out with it and 'splain?

So yeah, it's fishy if true. I'm putting it all firmly in the rumor category. Pretty good one though, if you're trying to prove conspiracy and discredit them. But if I were them, I'd be ...... at such a rumor if it were false.

 

[Just Me]

Well,
1) we KNOW vit-e stuff is an issue, and we know it really started hitting the market end of last year/start of this year.
2) If there's also "something else" it's coincidental timing.

I mean, I've eaten lettuce my whole life, but I could still get listeria from a contaminated salad now. It all depends on who/what/when/where.

I thought it was who/what/when/where/why. What about WHY?

I make my own e-liquid (unflavored) from nicotine I stocked up on a couple of years ago. But eventually, I will need to replenish my VG and PG. I wonder what happens if those have been...hmmm...altered in some way. Scary.

 

[AttyPops]

I thought it was who/what/when/where/why. What about WHY?

I make my own e-liquid (unflavored) from nicotine I stocked up on a couple of years ago. But eventually, I will need to replenish my VG and PG. I wonder what happens if those have been...hmmm...altered in some way. Scary.

Yeah. I had similar thoughts, because coincidentally, I just ordered nic base, pg and vg from my usual sources. (ran out...of a 3 year supply, and stocked up for another 3 years of nic base, and this crap is starting up).

My nic source publishes test results of batches though. So maybe he'd/they'd catch it if it was from that.

PG/VG? Who the hell knows?

 

[Baditude]

I read it on one of the vapor trade groups online, I think. I've read so much crap the past week I can't keep straight who said what and when. I admit it was probably second or third hand info. I have an idea where the source came from but it will take some time to find it. Watch for an update on that story tommorow.

 

[Just Me]

Yeah. I had similar thoughts, because coincidentally, I just ordered nic base, pg and vg from my usual sources. (ran out...of a 3 year supply, and stocked up for another 3 years of nic base, and this crap is starting up).

My nic source publishes test results of batches though. So maybe he'd/they'd catch it if it was from that.

PG/VG? Who the hell knows?

But how would we know if the PG and VG are clean?

 

[AttyPops]

But how would we know if the PG and VG are clean?

Right. I don't.
I have to trust the USP and the source and hope for the best.

I could stop vaping, but I'm afraid I'd fall back to smoking. I've tried most of the NRT stuff and frankly, it didn't work. That's me. I can't decide for you.

I did read that 80% of the cases (at least) have a correlation to THC/CBD vapers of some sort.

 

[Just Me]

Right. I don't.
I have to trust the USP and the source and hope for the best.

I could stop vaping, but I'm afraid I'd fall back to smoking. I've tried most of the NRT stuff and frankly, it didn't work. That's me. I can't decide for you.

I did read that 80% of the cases (at least) have a correlation to THC/CBD vapers of some sort.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

But how would we know if the PG and VG are clean?

No worries. Not much profit in adulterating something that costs so little already. Even cutting it with water might actually increase the price.

 

[ENAUD]

Seems we are up to lucky thirteen now... still crickets from the CDC
More than 800 ill, 12 dead from vaping in US

PS I know it says 12, seems they can't even keep the headlines up to accurate stats...

 

[Just Me]

I've been using the same VG for at least 6 months now, and I just got some new PG from a pharmacy friend, which should be good (I hope). And the nic base has been in the freezer for about a year now, so I hope I'm in the clear on all this.

But I do worry about 3 family members who vape and buy stuff from local shops (who might or might not know what is in their e-liquids).

 

[AttyPops]

No worries. Not much profit in adulterating something that costs so little already. Even cutting it with water might actually increase the price.

It's theoretically possible that it's just an unintentional contaminant in the supply chain for some PG or some VG in some vendor's hands. Which (I assume) is why the CDC is being so vague and showing "abundance of caution" even though we know from reports that there's other stuff like THC/CBD contaminated/bad/street stuff.

Of course, it doesn't hurt that it plays right into the FDA BT-Controlled hand, and the DEA...well...they're not really best at tracking all that. This is all kind of a cluster, due to the schedule-1 thing about THC/CBD...I think. If I understood properly.

Maybe we need changes to give the CDC some better authority in cases like this.
Gubment, it's a bureaucracy for sure....

 

[Just Me]

It's theoretically possible that it's just an unintentional contaminant in the supply chain for some PG or some VG in some vendor's hands. Which (I assume) is why the CDC is being so vague and showing "abundance of caution" even though we know from reports that there's other stuff like THC/CBD contaminated/bad/street stuff.

Of course, it doesn't hurt that it plays right into the FDA BT-Controlled hand, and the DEA...well...they're not really best at tracking all that. This is all kind of a cluster, due to the schedule-1 thing about THC/CBD...I think. If I understood properly.

Maybe we need changes to give the CDC some better authority in cases like this.
Gubment, it's a bureaucracy for sure....

But again I ask...why now? It just seems so, hmmm...timely?

 

[zelda]

It is quite out of the ordinary how the CDC has been handling this lung crisis. I hear reports that the CDC told physicians NOT to order illicit drug screens on patients presenting with these symptoms. Why? That would ordinarily be medical protocal. This is beginning to read like a Robin Cook medical novel. It sounds real fishy how the CDC is handling this crisis. Their slow release of even the smallest of details is giving policy makers plenty of time to enact unecessary bans fed by a fearmongering media frenzy. Rest assured, whoever manufactured these tainted THC carts, there are still thousands still on the street to be sold to dumb kids.

I find this whole situation fishy too. I watched the 2 recent hearings and the doctors all seemed reluctant to discuss illegal THC carts.

The Department of Health in Massachusetts still hasn't asked any of the people who got sick what they were vaping. Boston has great hospitals with superb doctors. And yet these medical cases remain "mysterious" at least according to what the public is told.

 

[Just Me]

I find this whole situation fishy too. I watched the 2 recent hearings and the doctors all seemed reluctant to discuss illegal THC carts.

The Department of Health in Massachusetts still hasn't asked any of the people who got sick what they were vaping. Boston has great hospitals with superb doctors. And yet these medical cases remain "mysterious" at least according to what the public is told.

Can you say clueless?

 

[AttyPops]

But again I ask...why now? It just seems so, hmmm...timely?

Counter:

Anytime it happened, it would be "now". I'm assuming you mean the pending May deadline and also the new BT product releases. But remember it's all coincidental with a big spurt in "green stuff" in the states. Those things ARE all coincidental.

I mean, we can speculate that it's deliberate and nefarious, or it's just "fortuitous" for BT in a sadly tragic coincidental way.

I guess I'm more concerned about how the politicians and spin doctors leverage any coincidence. My tin foil hat is still on, but it's more about the politicians and the "rules" and the big-money grab and the "master plan" regardless of this epidemic of lung disease.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

It's theoretically possible that it's just an unintentional contaminant in the supply chain for some PG or some VG in some vendor's hands. Which (I assume) is why the CDC is being so vague and showing "abundance of caution" even though we know from reports that there's other stuff like THC/CBD contaminated/bad/street stuff.

Of course, it doesn't hurt that it plays right into the FDA BT-Controlled hand, and the DEA...well...they're not really best at tracking all that. This is all kind of a cluster, due to the schedule-1 thing about THC/CBD...I think. If I understood properly.

Maybe we need changes to give the CDC some better authority in cases like this.
Gubment, it's a bureaucracy for sure....

I guess, theoretically. But I don't think vg or pg are even used in the carts. So I'd say more than very highly unlikely.

 

[Just Me]

I guess, theoretically. But I don't think vg or pg are even used in the carts. So I'd say more than very highly unlikely.

I could be entirely wrong, but I thought VG/PG in some combination were always used in e-liquid?