$15 for a build really?

[CMD-Ky]

Except for the fact that the employee is making the exact same wage whether he is helping somebody make a coil or not. And all this other stuff you speak of is paid for when I'm paying 15% to 40% higher for my purchases. Without these little customer service perks, there is absolutely no reason to shop there and these businesses can worry about this and the rest of their fees in an empty store. Again you are sitting here debating the things that make the B&M's I shop at, successful.

And last night, I sat down and had this discussion with my fiance who is a customer service manager and trainer for the largest grocery chain in the world. She agreed 100% and said the things I'm saying here are some of the exact things the company has her teach new employees. What do they know though? They only made $108.5 billion in revenue last year.

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition

What do they know? They know a great deal. They know that each thing you discuss will help increase foot traffic, foot traffic may or may not increase revenue.. They know that customer service costs money, sometimes a great deal of money. They know that a 100 Billion company enjoys economies of scale unavailable to a store front operation. They also know that each item of customer service you discuss does not cost mere "pennies" unless you are counting your pennies by the hundreds. They know that without a positive bottom line all of the customer service taught by their CS mangers will result in a closed store. They know that customer service managers are a valuable component of the business but they are not the business; if the CS managers ran the business then the business would be out of business.

You know what? Sometimes the customer is wrong.

 

[pmadden]

Hey, I don't know any shops in any business that provide free services. Vape shops are no different. They build your first coil free if you buy the atomizer there,after that your on your own. Nuff said, have a nice day.

 

[Rule62]

I was in a vape shop buying juice the other day, and one of the guys was building a coil for a customer. I was sampling juice, taking my time,and at some point I realized this guy was still building that coil. I'm a retired Telco employee,and I think I can get a job at a vape shop building coils,lol.

I guess it depends on how much of a perfectionist the builder is. I tend to be a bit OCD about my coils. I don't change them as often as some people do, so I spend a lot of time getting them exactly right, because they're probably going to be in there a while.


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[Oberon75]

What do they know? They know a great deal. They know that each thing you discuss will help increase foot traffic, foot traffic may or may not increase revenue.. They know that customer service costs money, sometimes a great deal of money. They know that a 100 Billion company enjoys economies of scale unavailable to a store front operation. They also know that each item of customer service you discuss does not cost mere "pennies" unless you are counting your pennies by the hundreds. They know that without a positive bottom line all of the customer service taught by their CS mangers will result in a closed store. They know that customer service managers are a valuable component of the business but they are not the business; if the CS managers ran the business then the business would be out of business.

You know what? Sometimes the customer is wrong.

Yet you are still avoiding the one major key that I keep explaining.

How is it that my vape shops are doing so well? Why don't they have to do business in the manner that you keep trying to defend? Maybe you are just used to dealing with B&M's that operate like a foreign convenience store but the shops I'm now dealing with are a lot more successful.

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[CMD-Ky]

Yet you are still avoiding the one major key that I keep explaining.

How is it that my vape shops are doing so well? Why don't they have to do business in the manner that you keep trying to defend? Maybe you are just used to dealing with B&M's that operate like a foreign convenience store but the shops I'm now dealing with are a lot more successful.

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition

I don't know what you think I am "defending". You said coils cost pennies, right? They don't cost pennies - only the materials cost pennies.. Customer service costs money. There is more cost to the coil than the pennies you described. I have no idea why the store you patronize is so successful. I haven't seen the balance sheet to even know if it is successful. It may appear so but the bankruptcy courts have many apparently successful businesses as the court's "customers". Success is not defined by sales, happy customers or heavy foot traffic; success in business is defined by an accountant with a spreadsheet.

 

[Strings]

How long have those shops been there? If they're less then 5 years old, you can't say yet whether they're successful or not

What is their overhead? Dynamics are gonna be QUITE different between a one person shop and a place with several paid employees

 

[Oberon75]

I don't know what you think I am "defending". You said coils cost pennies, right? They don't cost pennies. Customer service costs money. There is more cost to the coil than the pennies you described. I have no idea why the store you patronize is so successful. I haven't seen the balance sheet to even know if it is successful. Success is not defined by sales, happy customers or heavy foot traffic; it is defined by an accountant with a spreadsheet.

Customer service doesn't cost anything extra to go above and beyond. They are making the exact same money whether they just sit there and ring a register or show you how to build a coil. The owner is making more through the customer service then they are by nickel and diming. That extra bit of service reaps a great many rewards in a market that's so much cheaper online.

And it's not just one store I'm talking about. It's a network of independent vape shops which not only serves around 2000 members but all their friends as well as all their walk ins as well.

Now I just got back from the one shop a little while ago and discussed this thread while he was helping me build my nickel I've been having problems with. Even he said that if he operated in the way like you are defending, he wouldn't have his loyal customer base who ignore online sales and pass up the giant 55 store Tobacco/Vaping hybrid chain, Wild Bills to do business with him instead.

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[CMD-Ky]

Customer service doesn't cost anything extra to go above and beyond. They are making the exact same money whether they just sit there and ring a register or show you how to build a coil. The owner is making more through the customer service then they are by nickel and diming. That extra bit of service reaps a great many rewards in a market that's so much cheaper online.

And it's not just one store I'm talking about. It's a network of independent vape shops which not only serves around 2000 members but all their friends as well as all their walk ins as well.

Now I just got back from the one shop a little while ago and discussed this thread while he was helping me build my nickel I've been having problems with. Even he said that if he operated in the way like you are defending, he wouldn't have his loyal customer base who ignore online sales and pass up the giant 55 store Tobacco/Vaping hybrid chain, Wild Bills to do business with him instead.

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OK, Oberon, we differ. The conversation is no longer worth the effort.

 

[Bad Ninja]

How long have those shops been there? If they're less then 5 years old, you can't say yet whether they're successful or not

What is their overhead? Dynamics are gonna be QUITE different between a one person shop and a place with several paid employees

1. 3 years. You can run a business for 3 years at a loss. After that it must turn a profit or break even, paying all it's bills and employees, or the state will shut it's doors.
If a business is older than 3 years, it's successful.

2. The finances of a large business and a small business are exactly the same.
Opportunities may differ, but the basics are the same.

I ran a small business for years and sold it to a much larger company when I retired.

 

[alljokingaside]

Mmm, haven't read every post here (so if I'm parroting someone, sorry), but it is labor and it does provide a measure of assurance to the customer. It could also be a way for the shop to promote DIYing and studying up on coil building, safety, etc by introducing putative measures for ...a lack of knowledge. I mean, if coil building was free or really cheap, then a good number of patrons'd might end up just going to the shop with cheap kanthal and have their reps coiling for them, taking time from other things they could be doing. Like making o-rings with their vapor. If you can afford to and are willing to pay $15 a pop, then you probably don't really need the money that badly since a coil could be made in less time than it takes to go to a shop. Practice? Yes, but it isn't all that difficult with guides out there as is.

 

[VHRB2014]

Customer service is FREE,
LABOR is charged at a rate applicable to the LABOR involved.

 

[Oberon75]

Mmm, haven't read every post here (so if I'm parroting someone, sorry), but it is labor and it does provide a measure of assurance to the customer. It could also be a way for the shop to promote DIYing and studying up on coil building, safety, etc by introducing putative measures for ...a lack of knowledge. I mean, if coil building was free or really cheap, then a good number of patrons'd might end up just going to the shop with cheap kanthal and have their reps coiling for them, taking time from other things they could be doing. Like making o-rings with their vapor. If you can afford to and are willing to pay $15 a pop, then you probably don't really need the money that badly since a coil could be made in less time than it takes to go to a shop. Practice? Yes, but it isn't all that difficult with guides out there as is.

Here is the thing though. My shops aren't in the business of making coils. They are in the business of selling vaping products while offering the customer knowledge in building and safety. I don't believe any shop should have a price on coil building and should be a courtesy to help get people started. The only time a shop should just be building coils for somebody is if they are handicapped. If you ask me, a coil making service is very bad business.

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[Frenchfry1942]

I am not very respectful of B&Ms in general.

There are many YouTube videos on building a coil. I find it relaxing.

Happy vaping!

 

[Scottitude]

Stopped by Detroit Vapor Shop yesterday to buy a new RDA (which they insisted on building for free after asking what mod I would use it on to wrap to the appropriate resistance) in preparation for two new delicious flavors of Abstract Clouds form The Vapor Hut that are in the mail.

Two guys building, two guys serving customers at lightning speed, and patiently answering everyone's questions at the same time. It was controlled chaos. They were having a blast.

Best part... four kids walked in and before the last one could get the door closed they were asked for picture IDs or DVS customer cards. unable to produce either, they were asked to leave.

The point? It's all about customer service.

A vape shop can prosper by selling only authentic products, politely and knowledgably answering noob questions, building coils for free or next to nothing, all without missing a beat, or selling to minors.

Hasn't been open for five years but at this rate, in five years they'll own the entire block!

ETD:
With this kind of service, even if they did charge $5 a coil and wick, I'd gladly pay it.

 

[Professor Snape]

I guess I can see both sides of the coin here. It's nice to provide customer service, but the bills need to be paid too. Maybe a better solution would be becoming friends with an experienced vaper who is adept at winding coils. I know I would gladly wrap coils for anybody who was having a problem doing it, or was physically unable to do it. In fact if anybody in the 49441 area of Western Michigan needs coils wrapped, or would like to learn more about vaping, just send me a message; I'll be happy to help.

 

[Oberon75]

Stopped by Detroit Vapor Shop yesterday to buy a new RDA (which they insisted on building for free after asking what mod I would use it on to wrap to the appropriate resistance) in preparation for two new delicious flavors of Abstract Clouds form The Vapor Hut that are in the mail.

Two guys building, two guys serving customers at lightning speed, and patiently answering everyone's questions at the same time. It was controlled chaos. They were having a blast.

Best part... four kids walked in and before the last one could get the door closed they were asked for picture IDs or DVS customer cards. unable to produce either, they were asked to leave.

The point? It's all about customer service.

A vape shop can prosper by selling only authentic products, politely and knowledgably answering noob questions, building coils for free or next to nothing, all without missing a beat, or selling to minors.

Hasn't been open for five years but at this rate, in five years they'll own the entire block!

ETD:
With this kind of service, even if they did charge $5 a coil and wick, I'd gladly pay it.

This is exactly what I've been talking about and is living proof of the hospitality of the Metro Detroit vape shops that I frequent.

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition

 

[graffiti]

Do it yourself or pay what they charge.

"That's highway robbery, that only takes three minutes."

Then do it on your own three minutes. It's not like you have to go out and buy a CNC machine if you want to build your own atty or mod. We're talking about $10 worth of tools and half an hour to learn to build.

 

[Oberon75]

Do it yourself or pay what they charge.

"That's highway robbery, that only takes three minutes."

Then do it on your own three minutes. It's not like you have to go out and buy a CNC machine if you want to build your own atty or mod. We're talking about $10 worth of tools and half an hour to learn to build.

I know how to build and I do build. I just discovered twisting my wire with a drill yesterday and will be moving onto a clapton coil really soon. But while I build, I generally won't do business with a shop that's turned coil building into an expensive business because that means their other practices suck too.

It's interesting how different the opinions are depending on the topic. Whenever I see a B&M thread, most talk about how horrible they are and how they will only shop online. But in a thread like this one. People defend the very practices that make these shops so bad in the first place.

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[Das Auto]

If your willing to pay a price and don't feel cheated, then what is bad in that? I don't but lap dances because I think paying $20 for that is NOT worth it, when I can get them for free! Therefore, I feel cheated. I pay $9 for a Johnny Black at a nice steak restaurant, because I like Johnny Black and don't feel cheated. It's a give and take.

 

[Oberon75]

If your willing to pay a price and don't feel cheated, then what is bad in that? I don't but lap dances because I think paying $20 for that is NOT worth it, when I can get them for free! Therefore, I feel cheated. I pay $9 for a Johnny Black at a nice steak restaurant, because I like Johnny Black and don't feel cheated. It's a give and take.

The problem is, people who support these kind of practices make it harder on the rest of the vapers who don't want to be cheated.

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