FDA 27.07.2014 - Glantz to FDA - FDA should prohibit of use of flavors

[Anjaffm]

tobacco.
ucsf.
edu/more-evidence-why-fda-should-prohibit-use-flavors-deemed-tobacco-products-part-current-rulemaking

"More evidence why FDA should prohibit of use of flavors in deemed tobacco products as part of the current rulemaking | Center for Tobacco Control Research and Education"


"evidence" indeed, bah!
The ususal nonsense

Flavored tobacco products were overwhelming preferred over unflavored products. For electronic cigarettes, 100% of individuals who reported use in the past 30 days reported using flavored electronic cigarettes or e-liquid.

Well, yes, people use flavored e-liquid. And water is wet.
So, let's ban flavors in e-liquid, so that it is not attractive to smokers and they continue to smoke cigarettes. After all, those taste of something.

In addition, e-cigs do not contain tobacco. OK?

And that engineer who deems himself to be an "expert" actually stoops low enough to cite a newspaper article as his source for "evidence". Wow, just wow. Can I cite an article from the "National Enquirer" to prove that people get abducted by aliens every day?

I know that Karma will get this jerk. But why is Karma taking so long, please?

 

[DC2]

Forum censors would never let me post my true feelings regarding Stanton Glantz.
But I strongly suggest that he never run into me in a dark alley.

Generally, I like the idea of sitting down and having a beer with people I strongly disagree with.
Not in this case.

 

[Anjaffm]

@sonicsl:

Last edited by sonicdsl; Today at 07:19 PM. Reason: Broke link to "engineered" science

Thank you!

@DC2:
Yup.
An beer? How about a nice cup of hemlock for your guest? That was good enough for Socrates, after all. Honor where honor is due, I should say.

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

He falls under the Piled Higher and Deeper category of PHD.

 

[dragonpuff]

I love how Glantz didn't even bother discriminating between tobacco flavor and non-tobacco flavor this time well yeah, when you put it that way they are all flavored! This is ridiculous...

 

[DrMA]

I'm done paying any attention to anything glANTZ says. Him and his 128 buddies from the letter to WHO can go and {self moderated}.

I already wrote to the FDA that "research" bearing his name (and all other ANTZ) should be summarily dismissed as conflicted academic misconduct. I included the full 129 list with my comment. Check out my ECF Blog if you'd like to resubmit that particular comment as your own.

 

[Kent C]

I know that Karma will get this jerk. But why is Karma taking so long, please?

Too bad that flood at UCLA wasn't in his office at UCSF. The flood - just another chapter in Atlas Shrugged??

 

[Anjaffm]

@DrMA:
your microcomments to the FDA are excellent
I love them!

And this here rocks:

They have already announced and celebrated the FDA-facilitated takeover of the entire ecig market [3][4][5]. In their Investor Day webcasts [4] Philip Morris effectively called FDA their “second pillar supporting our [...] business model.” Is this the image FDA and CTP want to project to the American public? A pillar of the Big Tobacco business model?

I highly recommend that anybody who writes to the FDA check out DrMA's ECF blog to get some ideas.

 

[DC2]

I'm done paying any attention to anything glANTZ says. Him and his 128 buddies from the letter to WHO can go and {self moderated}.

I already wrote to the FDA that "research" bearing his name (and all other ANTZ) should be summarily dismissed as conflicted academic misconduct. I included the full 129 list with my comment. Check out my ECF Blog if you'd like to resubmit that particular comment as your own.

DrMA....

You have become my favorite poster.
You seriously rock.

 

[DrMA]

DrMA....

You have become my favorite poster.
You seriously rock.

Thanks, DC2. I don't know if any of this will make a difference with FDA, but I tried to let them know there are people out there who can see straight thru their BS.

 

[bigdancehawk]

"Rulers, both temporal and spiritual, have seen their deceits in the benign light of noble social purposes. They have propagated and maintained myths, played on the gullibility of the ignorant, and sought stability in shared beliefs. They have seen themselves as high-minded and well-bred—whether by birth or by training—and as superior to those they deceive. Some have gone so far as to claim that those who govern have a right to lie. The powerful tell lies believing that they have greater than ordinary understanding of what is at stake; very often they regard their dupes as having inadequate judgment, or as likely to respond in the wrong way to truthful information."

Sissela Bok. Lying: Moral Choice in Public and Private Life (2d ed. 1999).

 

[Kent C]

"Rulers, both temporal and spiritual, have seen their deceits in the benign light of noble social purposes. They have propagated and maintained myths, played on the gullibility of the ignorant, and sought stability in shared beliefs. They have seen themselves as high-minded and well-bred—whether by birth or by training—and as superior to those they deceive. Some have gone so far as to claim that those who govern have a right to lie. The powerful tell lies believing that they have greater than ordinary understanding of what is at stake; very often they regard their dupes as having inadequate judgment, or as likely to respond in the wrong way to truthful information."

Sissela Bok. Lying: Moral Choice in Public and Private Life (2d ed. 1999).

Why Plato was derided by Aristotle, (and Jefferson, Madison and Adams too)

 

[catlady60]

I don't get it. According to the self-styled expert on tobacco control, "Dr." glANTZ, you can't put FDA-approved USP nicotine, FDA-approved PG, FDA-approved VG, and FDA-approved flavoring together to make e-juice, even though every ingredient in e-juice is FDA approved when sold and distributed separately. His stANTZ makes no logical sense.

 

[SolRayz]

^agreed...

The FDA can ban flavored ejuice all day if they want. The best part of human engenuity is that we find work-a-rounds. If something as ......ed as this were to go into affect, juice companies would simply sell their flavors on the side, seperate, unmixed...stoopid waist of taxpayer money buffoon government.

 

[AndriaD]

@DrMA:
your microcomments to the FDA are excellent
I love them!



I highly recommend that anybody who writes to the FDA check out DrMA's ECF blog to get some ideas.

I finally submitted my own today, and I also made it a blog post, just because it's so extremely militant, I thought others might enjoy it -- and certainly, anyone who wants to use any of the language in it, feel free! Let's smack those idiots around, even if it's only verbally! it's here...

Andria

 

[aikanae1]

I hope gantz and fda and cdc loose in a civil action that charges them with the harm done for not telling the public the truth about tobacco harm reduction.

 

[DrMA]

I hope gantz and fda and cdc loose in a civil action that charges them with the harm done for not telling the public the truth about tobacco harm reduction.

I doubt we'll ever see the day when the Tobacco Control MSA would be enacted by a court, forcing all those who benefited from the tobacco gravy train -- thru fraud, lies, gross malpractice, and academic misconduct, at great expense, suffering, and death by smokers worldwide -- to pay back their ill-gotten fortunes with interest, penalties, and injuries added on top. That should not stop us from seeking justice, though.

 

[bigdancehawk]

I finally submitted my own today, and I also made it a blog post, just because it's so extremely militant, I thought others might enjoy it -- and certainly, anyone who wants to use any of the language in it, feel free! Let's smack those idiots around, even if it's only verbally! it's here...

Andria

Well, you covered just about everything, but why were you so soft on them?

 

[AndriaD]

Well, you covered just about everything, but why were you so soft on them?

Heh.. because they have a character limitation in that textarea. As first submitted, it was more than 700 words too long. So I had to go back and streamline it to make it say what I wanted to say, in the least amount of characters I could manage. Finally got it below the limit, in the form shown in my blog post. It still says what I wanted to say, just more succinctly.

It was a great deal more vituperative in its original form. Maybe that's why they instituted the character limit.

Andria

 

[dragonpuff]

I doubt we'll ever see the day when the Tobacco Control MSA would be enacted by a court, forcing all those who benefited from the tobacco gravy train -- thru fraud, lies, gross malpractice, and academic misconduct, at great expense, suffering, and death by smokers worldwide -- to pay back their ill-gotten fortunes with interest, penalties, and injuries added on top. That should not stop us from seeking justice, though.

I agree. We will never see these people actually be held accountable, either publicly or in a court of law. Instead one of two things will happen:

1) We'll see a quiet, not-very-well-publicized admission along the lines of "oh, well we 'now' have evidence that THR is the way to go so we'll proceed," and regs will change without anyone batting an eyelash; or

2) Major players in the FDA and previous ANTZ will come out very publicly with this "new" evidence in favor of THR, and they'll get all the credit for it

The truth will come out eventually, but chances are it will be in less of a yell and more of a whimper, and those in power will get all the credit for it no matter what happens