3 months of ecigs... coming to an end

[Outre]

My fear is that new folks will find this thread and freak out at the talk of cost.

It can be done relatively inexpensively.

Relative to what? The cost of cigarettes, of course. ;-D

I'm not a poster child for inexpensive, however, I am not a high-roller either.

Here's my experience thus far (all expenditures rounded up);

Total for 3-month vaping use so far comes to $480, $160 monthly or $40 a week. This is due mainly to finding my juice flavor niche, getting extra kits (I hate running out of anything), and trying out new things.

After reading a bit before purchasing I decided the e-cig didn't have to look like a cigarette, but have longer battery life and durability. Then I posted asking for help in the New Members Forum where the members here gave me some excellent advice and resources, I didn't try to go big, or buy the fanciest thing ever made, I wanted serviceable and cost effective.

I also decided against looking for a tobacco flavor juice right off. While I have sampled some (my juice supplier gives a free sample with every full sized bottle), I don't really care for the flavor.

Savings right now versus $45 cigarette carton per week? $5 a week or $20 a month.

If I hadn't bought $175 in extra items and just stuck with my original kit and juice purchases? Expenditure would have been approx. $100 a month or $25 a week.

If I follow that plan now, and spend no more on hardware, then savings will come to $20 a week which in this time of higher gas prices is more than welcome.

Once I get the battery/atomizer supply down I plan to look into doublers, etc., to further lower the cost. My goal is $10 a week. I know some might gasp, but hey, dream big to get what you want, eh?

If I had continued smoking there is no way I would have cut my nicotine expense this far. Cigarette expense, btw, does not count the 3-months of gum and 2 months of patches that I tried (and failed with), nor the Nic-Out filters I was already using to reduce the tar intake. lighters (which always seem to fail), cleaning supplies to strip the grime off of whatever. etc., etc.

If you don't want to vape, cool. It's your choice after all.

I just don't want someone who could find this a good alternative for them being scared off because "it's too expensive" when, if you're careful, the worst it could be is on par with the cost of smoking, but more cost effective in the long run when you consider the health benefits to be gained.

 

[Dario]

My fear is that new folks will find this thread and freak out at the talk of cost.

It can be done relatively inexpensively.

Relative to what? The cost of cigarettes, of course. ;-D

I'm not a poster child for inexpensive, however, I am not a high-roller either.

Here's my experience thus far (all expenditures rounded up);

Total for 3-month vaping use so far comes to $480, $160 monthly or $40 a week. This is due mainly to finding my juice flavor niche, getting extra kits (I hate running out of anything), and trying out new things.

After reading a bit before purchasing I decided the e-cig didn't have to look like a cigarette, but have longer battery life and durability. Then I posted asking for help in the New Members Forum where the members here gave me some excellent advice and resources, I didn't try to go big, or buy the fanciest thing ever made, I wanted serviceable and cost effective.

I also decided against looking for a tobacco flavor juice right off. While I have sampled some (my juice supplier gives a free sample with every full sized bottle), I don't really care for the flavor.

Savings right now versus $45 cigarette carton per week? $5 a week or $20 a month.

If I hadn't bought $175 in extra items and just stuck with my original kit and juice purchases? Expenditure would have been approx. $100 a month or $25 a week.

If I follow that plan now, and spend no more on hardware, then savings will come to $20 a week which in this time of higher gas prices is more than welcome.

Once I get the battery/atomizer supply down I plan to look into doublers, etc., to further lower the cost. My goal is $10 a week. I know some might gasp, but hey, dream big to get what you want, eh?

If I had continued smoking there is no way I would have cut my nicotine expense this far. Cigarette expense, btw, does not count the 3-months of gum and 2 months of patches that I tried (and failed with), nor the Nic-Out filters I was already using to reduce the tar intake. lighters (which always seem to fail), cleaning supplies to strip the grime off of whatever. etc., etc.

If you don't want to vape, cool. It's your choice after all.

I just don't want someone who could find this a good alternative for them being scared off because "it's too expensive" when, if you're careful, the worst it could be is on par with the cost of smoking, but more cost effective in the long run when you consider the health benefits to be gained.

I think it would take more than this thread to start any hysteria. Many companies are coming out in fly-by-nite fashion over ecigs. Through TV ads is where most people will see an ecig. These 60 second ads sell utter garbage disguised as a safe cigarette to unsuspecting customers- and they'll buy it too.. and later realize the true costs. Almost every TV ad sells ecigs without mention of associated costs or ramifications. This type of marketing is exactly the beast that will cause legislation and regulation followed by a bad reputation. All it will take is one stupid mistake. It's only a matter of time before a product on the market or some ejuice has components not approved by the FDA or has some very bad affects that are blamed on the death of a child. The media will do their job by twisting the story into some unreal profit scheme or how a lack of regulation allows China to kill children and anyone who smoked an ecig will die! Big tobacco has bought a patent for an ecig design and its business 101 to sit and wait while putting a plan together, which is what they're doing. I honestly believe it's only a matter of time before ejuice costs go through the roof because of new regulation. It's brilliant that the FDA just quit on ecigs but ironic that it was right when Phillip Morris was getting media attention over talks about purchasing a patent aerosol nicotine-delivery system from Jed Rose. The whole plan is hilarious. The public learns about ecigs and alternatives from so many small companies in the market. Ejuice's are abundant and a plethora exists. People are are hearing more about them and every day something is new. This is free marketing for big business who is already prepared for the new legislation we don't know about. They are waiting to enter the market with a regulated product to replace your newly regulated ecigs and over regulated nicotine. Phillip Morris to the rescue!

I could be wrong.

BTW: I love vaping and I love flavors.

 

[stretchpants]

I had an almost identical experience. 40+ years, bought a pv for all those places where I couldn't smoke. First hit, lightbulb goes off, "I can do this instead!". Smoked a few the first couple of weeks until I got 24mg juice, then it's been all good. I started with an eGo, and moved to the REO Mini.

It's not like I didn't have to use any willpower to not pick up a cigarette, but vaping is so much better. Once I found something that was easier to use than smoking, my REO, I feel fairly comfortable that I won't go back to smoking.

How do you like your REO mini?

 

[mlinky]

How do you like your REO mini?

Absolutely LOVE it!! No carrying juice bottles, wiping things off, refilling cartos...just good clean vape every time. And it is so much smaller than I thought it was going to be. The pictures always make mods look huge, but it's not much bigger than a Zippo

 

[Bdbodger]

Savings right now versus $45 cigarette carton per week?

Where I live a carton costs about $100 and I use to buy 1 1/2 per week so there is no comparason to the $20 a week I spend now on eliquid . Even with the different ecigs I have tried and the tanks I wasted money on I am still way ahead of the game .

 

[Vocalek]

TBH, speaking purely from a scientific standpoint, there is not much more than conjecture to support the contention that vaping is any better for you. Many people, myself included, have found that e-liquid comes with a much greater risk of large nicotine doses being ingested rapidly than most forms of tobacco. The result is tachycardia and hypertension. High blood pressure is known to cause significant damage if maintained for extended periods. So claims that vaping is better for you really need to be investigated in extensive clinical studies.

When we were smokers, most of us did a pretty good job of self-regulating our nicotine intake. When we started to feel groggy, slow-witted, tired, hungry, inattentive, etc. we would light up. If we were engrossed in something and started smoking on "automatic pilot", when the headache hit us, we looked at the ash tray and said to ourselves, "Whoops. Guess I need to go take an aspirin and put away the smokes for a while."

So far, I haven't seen any evidence that it is easier to take in too much nicotine too rapidly from vaping than it is from smoking. In fact, I've seen some evidence to the contrary.

1. Murray Laugesen of Health New Zealand found that each puff of vapor from a 16 mg. cartridge contained only 10% of the nicotine in a similar sized puff of cigarette smoke.
2. Clinical trials of e-cigarettes have not found that vapor significantly raises heart rate or blood pressure.

The above isn't conclusive evidence, but it provides some clues. If your goal is to OD on nicotine using vapor, then you either will need to use (much) stronger concentrations of nicotine or take a lot more puffs than you used to when smoking.

Clinical Research

Bullen C, C, McRobbie H, Thornley S, Glover M, Lin R, Laugesen M. Effect of an electronic nicotine delivery device (e cigarette) on desire to smoke and withdrawal, user preferences and nicotine delivery: randomised cross-over trial. Tob Control. 2010 Apr;19(2):98-103. http://www.healthnz.co.nz/2010 Bullen ECig.pdf

Caponnetto P, Cibella F, Mancuso S, Campagna D, Arcidiacono G, Polosa R. Effect of a nicotine free inhalator as part of a smoking cessation program. Eur Respir J. 2011 May 12. Effect of a nicotine free inhalator as part of a s... [Eur Respir J. 2011] - PubMed result

Darredeau C, Campbell M, Temporale K, et al. Subjective and reinforcing effects of electronic cigarettes in male and female smokers. 12th annual meeting of the Society for Research on Nicotine and Tobacco Europe. Bath, UK, 2010. https://secure2.symphonyem.co.uk/CMS/UserDocuments/899/Cathy Book1-121 .pdf (accessed June 2011)

Eissenberg T. Electronic nicotine delivery devices: ineffective nicotine delivery and craving suppression after acute administration. Tob Control. 2010 Feb;19(1):87-8.
Electronic nicotine delivery devices: ineffective nicotine delivery and craving suppression after acute administration -- Eissenberg 19 (1): 87 -- Tobacco Control (accessed June 2011)

Etter JF, Bullen C, Flouris A, Laugesen M, Eissenberg T. Electronic nicotine delivery systems: a research agenda. Tob Control doi:10.1136/tc.2010.042168. Commentary. Electronic nicotine delivery systems: a research agenda -- Etter et al. -- Tobacco Control (accessed June 2011)

Keller E. Known Fact: Electronic Cigarettes Deliver Nicotine More Slowly. Tob Control. Replies to "Electronic nicotine delivery devices." Published 18 Mar 2010. Replies to Electronic nicotine delivery devices: ineffective nicotine delivery and craving suppression after acute administration

Khan Z, Siegel M. Electronic cigarettes as a harm reduction strategy for tobacco control: A step forward or a repeat of past mistakes? Journal of Public Health Policy advance online publication 9 December 2010; doi: 10.1057/jphp.2010.41. http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/centers-institutes/population-development/files/article.jphp.pdf

Rose JE, Turner JE, Murugesan T, Behm FM. Pulmonary delivery of nicotine pyruvate: sensory and pharmacokinetic characteristics. Poster, Society for Research on Nicotine and Tobacco 16th annual conference, Baltimore, 27 February 2010. http://www.srnt.org/conferences/2010/pdf/2010_Program.pdf

Miura K, Kikukawa Y, Nakao T, Tokai H, Izumi Y, Fujii H, Taisuke Hojo, T. Safety Assessment of Electronic Cigarettes in Smokers. SEIKATSU EISEI (Journal of Urban Living and Health Association). Vol. 55 (2011) , No. 1 p.59-64. SEIKATSUEISEI : Vol. 55 (2011) , No. 1 p.59-64

Vansickel AR, Cobb CO, Weaver MF, Eissenberg TE. A clinical laboratory model for evaluating the acute effects of electronic "cigarettes": nicotine delivery profile and cardiovascular and subjective effects. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2010 Aug;19(8):1945-53. Epub 2010 Jul 20. http://www.casaa.org/files/Virgiania Commonwealth University Study.pdf

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I found a very easy way to OD on nicotine: Accidentally swallow part of a Commit lozenge. This was much worse than anything I had experienced from smoking too much. My head was pounding, the room was spinning, and the "perfect storm" was brewing in my stomach. But after I finished tossing my lunch and laid down for a while, I was fine.

 

[Vocalek]

Yeah StormFinch, but Sweedish snus is not the same as snus in general...... and it still increases pancreatic cancer risk, so best to avoid it if possible. Those that really need tobacco alkaloids and such know who they are.

I agree that we need more testing with vaping, but I'd go with vaping any day over tobacco.... just based on extrapolation from other info. It's not a "complete guess".

Oh, and for me.... when I say I'm "tobacco free" I want to mean it. Unfortunately, I can't say "nicotine free". I don't use TA flavorings (that I know of) either.

Clarification on the pancreatic cancer risk:

1. This was a long-term study that began before the low-nitrosamine snus was on the market in Sweden. No such excess risk has been seen in groups that did not start using snus until the safer product was in use.
2. The relative risk numbers sounded alarming, but the absolute risk detected was very small:

The cited study found that snus users had 8.8 cases of pancreatic cancer per 100,000, compared with 3.9 cases per 100,000 for non-users of tobacco. However, smokers had the highest rate, at 13 per 100,000. Switching from smoking to snus reduces risks for all forms of cancer.

The interesting thing is that for all other forms of cancer, snus users had the same risk of cancer as non-users of tobacco.

 

[Vocalek]

This doesn't make any sense. I don't even know how to begin comprehending what you're extrapolating from this poll you're citing.

The exact question wording is:

What answer below is most SIMILAR to the MAIN reason you tried electronic cigarettes? (Please only choose "Other" if none of the reasons below are remotely similar to your reason.)

The response to which the writer referred is worded:

To continue to have a "smoking" experience, but with reduced health risks.

64.6% selected the above option. The runner up, at 20.4% was the following:

To use as a smoking cessation device to quit my nicotine addiction completely.

Survey results can be viewed here:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/sr.aspx?sm=HrpzL8PN5cP366RWhWvCTjggiZM_2b8yQJHfwE9UXRNhE_3d

 

[AttyPops]

Thanks for the info/clarification. Swedish snus may be the one (and as far as I know, the only) exception ... My previous post was referring, in part to standard snus, and "standard tobacco" forms. I just avoid it, since I don't seem to be one of the people that requires the "tobacco effect". I do seem to need the nicotine however.

That's my point... that I'd much rather get nic from e-cigs... than any standard tobacco. Just because e-cigs have a learning curve, doesn't mean that we should "tout the benefits of tobacco" without noting the risks. So I choose to go tobacco-free. But that's me. Some feel they still need tobacco.

Swedish snus may be an exception, but since it's tobacco, I avoid it anyway as personal preference. E-cigs work for me.

 

[Vocalek]

Thanks for the info/clarification. Swedish snus may be the one (and as far as I know, the only) exception ... My previous post was referring, in part to standard snus, and "standard tobacco" forms. I just avoid it, since I don't seem to be one of the people that requires the "tobacco effect". I do seem to need the nicotine however.

That's my point... that I'd much rather get nic from e-cigs... than any standard tobacco. Just because e-cigs have a learning curve, doesn't mean that we should "tout the benefits of tobacco" without noting the risks. So I choose to go tobacco-free. But that's me. Some feel they still need tobacco.

Swedish snus may be an exception, but since it's tobacco, I avoid it anyway as personal preference. E-cigs work for me.

Swedish snus many not be the only exception. I believe that the new dissolvable tobacco products will prove to be no more dangerous than FDA-approved nicotine products such as the patch, gum, and lozenges.

Camel is test-marketing strips, sticks, and orbs (like lozenges). The strips dissolve in the mouth fairly quickly. I'm not crazy about them, but I suspect I would have liked them more back when I was smoking. They have a tobacco taste to them that I no longer crave or even appreciate. These days I pretty much like my nicotine fruiit-flavored or in the case of gum, mint-flavored.

The sticks look like toothpicks and have a coating of finely ground tobacco on one end. You put them in your mouth and allow the coating to dissolve. The orbs have some finely ground tobacco in them, so there is a slight gritty texture to them that you won't find in Nicorette (formerly named Commit) lozenges.

Tobacco-specific nitrosamines are thought to be the main carcinogenic ingredient in tobacco. The nitrosamines in these new tobacco products are even lower than the nitrosamines in the Swedish snus. So if Swedish snus doesn't increase cancer risk, it seems very unlikely that these new products would do so.

One company (Star Scientific) has developed versions of their lozenges, Ariva and Stonewall, that contain barely detectable levels of nitrosamines. That would mean they have even fewer nitrosamines than the nicotine patch or gum.

I totally respect your choice to stick with vaping only. I use a daily combination of 4 or 5 pieces of nicotine gum and vaping between 1/2 and 1 ml of 24 mg liquid. I think we need to offer as many options as possible to help folks stop inhaling smoke. Some things will work for some, and other things will work for others. "One man's meat is another man's poison."

 

[Tumorski]

It takes a little getting used to, and it takes a bit of start-up capital, but the health benefits are worth it. Plus, once you're over the 'hardware hurdle', it's all gravy, baby!

 

[pfaber11]

I've just read this whole thread and it took some time. I buy 250 ml of unflavoured 24 mg juice for 33 pounds and do less than 4 pounds worth a week . Chuck in another pound a week for attys and i'm spending 20 pounds a month. I drip on an 801 with a homemade usb pass through . It does not get any cheaper than this and i vape a fair bit . I guess i cant afford to be fussy . Way cheaper than roll your own .

 

[Loop]

I've just read this whole thread and it took some time. I buy 250 ml of unflavoured 24 mg juice for 33 pounds and do less than 4 pounds worth a week . Chuck in another pound a week for attys and i'm spending 20 pounds a month. I drip on an 801 with a homemade usb pass through . It does not get any cheaper than this and i vape a fair bit . I guess i cant afford to be fussy . Way cheaper than roll your own .

Wow, did you actually read my wall of text?

 

[dragit]

I can't believe i just read this entire thread!

Buy something like a Roughstack from madvapes, a five pack of boge or smoke tech 2.0 oHm cartos, a few 2-2.5oHm attys, and some RY4 or dekang... maybe some fruity juice to try (like the tutti fruiti from topvapor just to see if sweet flavors are your niche) and then get back to me. Or give up. I don't really care because I'll enjoy what you are missing out on!

45 days later I can't stand smoking a cig unless im smashed drunk lol. Vapor is amazing. Even all my NON SMOKING friends won't get away from my roughstack when its loaded up with tutti fruiti. Hell, they even like the tobacco flavors!


I'll vape till the day I die. Nicotine or not!

 

[pimpe]

To be honest i think you are doing it all wrong.... like most starters for that matter...
All these starter kits are a load of crap and a waste of money.
I tried it 3 years ago and just threw it in the bin after 1 week so that was $100 gone for nothing.

This time round i got a little smarter...

I just bought 2 device one is an Apex ultramax and a GG's GGTS.
Yes that are expensive... but it is better then wasting money on crap that don't work.

On top of that i spended $500 on bulk buying DIY eliquid.
A lot of atti and carti
So i spended $1300 all up for 1 years supply.
And if i was on analog it would of cost me $14 a pack here so times that by 365 = $5110 a year..

That is correct i have been spending $5000 AUD a year on cigs before... 1 AUD = 1.05 USD

So i feel going on e cigs is that best thing that has happened in my life so far.
no to say the healthiness that i am slowing getting back as well.
and the vaping enjoyment ..lol

 

[gjns711]

Hang in there, its worth it in the long run. Everyone has a learning curve in the beginning. I learn something everyday from this forum. Everyone here that I have dealt with thus far has been kind, considerate and forthcoming with any help they feel they can offer me. I was doing many things wrong, these are not analogs and never will be, thank god. Also its a relatively young industry and will suffer growing pains as well as it takes a foothold on the world. I hope from the bottom of my heart (and the depth of my lungs) that nothing comes along to impede this progress.

 

[Coiso]

I'm very sorry for your expirience with the e-cigs and first investments... It seems to me you've gave your opinion, wich is perfectly normal especially understanding the lack of pleasure you were getting from that same expirience, but let me say to you, if you had some kind of doubts, thoughts to share in the start of it, you would make the 5 posts easy.
I also bought one of those really crappy kits that you can get for 8$ on ebay with allready 5 carts, and the bill was around 60$ with two 5 carts packs extra. 2 bats to share with girlfriend, the pv was crappy, it would last for 3h the bat, and then it would charge 4h, and the carts would last me about 3h. I only gave a second chance to vaping, because I liked the sensation and thought: "Is there this in a good working device version?!"

I kind of understand you point of view because, in every vaping forum I see or use, I read some coments saying, "forget about that, you'll buy a mod soon!". This for me is completly wrong, at least since the lucky me was starting to vape and after some research I found what I was looking for, a good device no matter what other opinions say. On that device I was flirting with, I saw all reviews not just one, not just from the funny guy or the technical guy, but from everybody.

The important thing here is the information filter, you have to filter it and work it with your personal taste and opinion.

After that bought a M602c kit, and made it walk on BMF cartos, V2 blanks. And after that, since I wanted a device that you be compatible with drip cartos and tanks, got a very good business on a Ego battery. Not because the 650mAh compared with the 190mAh, or because the 3,2V compared to the 3.7V, or the big bat compared to the small smart pcc with everything allways ready to vape in my pocket. Just because I wanted to try the diferent vaping methods. The ego bat was about 20$ and allready brought 3 tanks one atty 2 dualcoils and one Echo carto. Fell in love with echo cartos.

Recently bought a kr808 passtrough and i've been vaping at the computer using 4.6V, with kanger cartos.

If I was to buy everything new and cool and fine that a review speaks of, I would be poor. Rather that i've spent about 300$ in €'s while saving about 500$ in €'s once again. Why? Because after the first bad experience, I wouldn't let my excitement let me throw more money to the garbage, if it was to spend one month of smoking money, it would have to be good the second time.

Funny thing?? my 70$ m602c with bloog/kanger cartos still is my favorite PV from all of them, the second choice, the serious one.

The liquids... oh the liquids... i've been in about 3 months vaping using hangsen samples and dekang juice, like the blended dk-tab and 555, tried recently the halo prime 15, big disappointment in the first 6 days and after that, my favorite. Next the 555 and ry4 from bloog.
Have about 10 juices, and only use and really like 3, then for relaxing and changing flavour a bit, more 2. I only use almost 3 flavour and that is because i'm still searching, the mission is to stop on those two, and have a third to vape at home after dinner.

It's a mistake to try and buy everything right on the start, it is also wrong to buy 30ml juices to try, only made that with prime 15, tribeca I was suspicious so i only bought 5ml. Dekang allways 10ml never more.

Hope you can relax and not complicate, and maybe give vaping another chance with some less complicated handling and higher performance device. Oh and it don't have to be much more expensive, except for the juices and flavours of course.

And I think you've raised some important issues in this thread but, also think you've become hurt by the vape world, don't be so hard on yourself or the vaping world just because you're mad with the situation. Vaping should be for everybody, the banal user who wants a good cigar looking device, and the "geek" user who uses a truck bat to vape at 24V.

To complete, I think there's a lot of good devices hidden in the middle of a lot of crappy crappy solutions, and don't forget about taste, the right voltage for me or flavour, might not be the one for you.