40% off Sale on Unflavored Nic Juice
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I have bought from MyFreedomsmokes a couple of times and have had no issues with his nic. I can't comment on this last sale as I have plenty of nic for now. If it smells funny just e-mail him or give him a call I am sure he will make it right. He is a pretty good guy to deal with
Just heard back from Chris, he's shipping a bottle from a different batch tomorrow.
I suspect that the smell of some colorless nic liquids (I say colorless because I am not including yellow - orange chinese juices) is a function of pH of the liquid. I am trying to track this info down, but logically if the free-base is simply dissolved in VG or PG, it will smell of free-base nic (sweetish, pungent, pesticide smell). If the pH is lowered, and I do know that some vendors do this, it reduces the smell by converting some of the nic to a salt (less smell, but more acrid and "dry"). My 100 mg MFS smells like it is the free-base, high pH, and I have no problem with that. Box Elder 100 mg has very little smell, but that which it has is more acrid, which tells me it is possibly lower pH, and I also would not have a problem with that either.
Both forms are equally effective in the long run, but will be perceived differently in the nose and throat. the free-base would likely be more peppery in the hit, tickle the nose more, while the salt would be less so in these regards, but might penetrate to the lungs better. But this is just a somewhat educated guess. As I said, I am trying to either track down this info, or measure pH myself when I get the right pH-paper, maybe next week sometime.
BTW, my MFS 100 mg dilutes down to a pretty tasteless DIY, but still has more tickle than the same strength DIY made from Box Elder. And yet Box Elder seems to hit harder...to the point that my goto DIY nic level was always 15 mg, but with Box Elder even 12 mg seems strong. But that could be because the lack of tickle is fooling me into thinking I haven't vaped enough yet!
Both forms are equally effective in the long run, but will be perceived differently in the nose and throat. the free-base would likely be more peppery in the hit, tickle the nose more, while the salt would be less so in these regards, but might penetrate to the lungs better. But this is just a somewhat educated guess. As I said, I am trying to either track down this info, or measure pH myself when I get the right pH-paper, maybe next week sometime.
BTW, my MFS 100 mg dilutes down to a pretty tasteless DIY, but still has more tickle than the same strength DIY made from Box Elder. And yet Box Elder seems to hit harder...to the point that my goto DIY nic level was always 15 mg, but with Box Elder even 12 mg seems strong. But that could be because the lack of tickle is fooling me into thinking I haven't vaped enough yet!
Interesting read Kurt, curious to see more on this topic......For now, think I'll just stick to Box Elder.....
You are correct. I am running into this problem ocassionally and for the time being I am not adjusting the pH. Everyone wants colorless and most times mine is except for the pungent, pesticide smell I only notice in the pure form or ocassionaly 100 mg strength. Lab tests show the clear and slightly yellow to be the same in strength and impurities. The only difference is the PH and I frankly think it is due to different tobacco leaves from different plants growing in different soils because I am using the same chemicals and process. [sigh]
My update:
Chris sent me a second bottle of nic to replace the first one which had a funky smell. The second bottle was from the same lot, 042011-C, so I packed both bottles up and sold them to an ECF member for the same price that I bought the original bottle for. So for me it was a wash and for someone else, it was a screaming deal.
I consider this an educational experience. I learned that all nicotine bases are not the same. I'm back to Box Elder and won't stray again.
Chris sent me a second bottle of nic to replace the first one which had a funky smell. The second bottle was from the same lot, 042011-C, so I packed both bottles up and sold them to an ECF member for the same price that I bought the original bottle for. So for me it was a wash and for someone else, it was a screaming deal.
I consider this an educational experience. I learned that all nicotine bases are not the same. I'm back to Box Elder and won't stray again.
Hey Joey!!
Don't give up. As someone else said, once you find your vendors- it's cheap, easy, and fun to diy.
That said:
*The higher the nic content- the stronger the smell, taste, and color. Diluting it down takes care of that.
*It's always a good idea to shake your nicotine and/or juice before using. Especially if it contains a higher vg content.
*Sitting in heat is never good for nic, but it is possible to get a bad batch too.
*All vendors are NOT created equal, but I've tried MFS in the past and they are one of the good ones here. Glad they are sorting it out for you.
Welcome to the dark side
and if you need any help just PM me
Home again home again. Jiggity jig
Don't give up. As someone else said, once you find your vendors- it's cheap, easy, and fun to diy.
That said:
*The higher the nic content- the stronger the smell, taste, and color. Diluting it down takes care of that.
*It's always a good idea to shake your nicotine and/or juice before using. Especially if it contains a higher vg content.
*Sitting in heat is never good for nic, but it is possible to get a bad batch too.
*All vendors are NOT created equal, but I've tried MFS in the past and they are one of the good ones here. Glad they are sorting it out for you.
Welcome to the dark side
and if you need any help just PM me Home again home again. Jiggity jig
Thanks for sharing this! What is your source of pure nicotine? Is it pharm grade? It sounds like sometimes 100 mg comes up differently than other times, with no pH changes.
Please see this thread for my somewhat crude pH measurements...I would love your comments:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/201651-ph-unflavored-nic-liquid-3.html
Briefly, my results using pH paper with indicators to id pH from 1 to 12 in increments of 1 pH unit (pHydrion paper, also known as alk-acid paper). 100 mg/mL nic free-base in water should have a pH of about 10.8.
MFS (100 mg VG): pH ~10. Clear and colorless. Strong aromatic pesticide smell. Strong nasal and throat hit. "Pepper"
Box Elder (100 mg VG): pH ~10. Clear and colorless. Much less smell, less aromatic, more acrid and less pesticide smell...popcorn? Almost no nasal and throat hit. Little to no "pepper" even up to 36 mg vaped. Color of pH strip is equal to that with MFS.
Vermont Vapor (35 mg VG): pH 7-8. Slight yellow, slight cloudy. Known to be pH balanced with citric acid (spoke with Adam about it). Smell more like BE than MFS. Pepper nasal and TH more like MFS.
My suspicions that aromatic pesticide and pepper effect are free-base, and less pepper and pesticide are salt, are clearly not correct. The pH of BE says it is free-base, and so is MFS. The difference in smell and especially nasal and TH are dramatic.
And in all honesty, as surprising as it might be for many here, at this point I prefer MFS pepper to BE no pepper. While vaping DIYs from BE I thought it was way more potent than the same DIY recipe with MFS, to the point of starting to cut back on the nic. In fact, I was vaping a lot more because I realized I was used to and looking for that pepper in the nose of MFS, not getting it, and hitting a lot more. I came to the conclusion that BE was too "invisible" to me. Since I only vape VG juices, TH and nasal pepper is only from the nic, and for right now I actually like and want that metric. 36 mg BE DIYs without any TH or nasal was like driving without a speedometer, and you only find out you've been speeding when you are pulled over.
Of course, some want this, some do not. Glad I have the options. But why this difference with two clearly free-base liquids is unclear to me. Perhaps my pH measurement does not have enough significant figures (1 pH unit), and the difference 1 pH unit is a ten-fold change in the nic/salt ratio. So maybe one was 10.5 and the other 9.5, but one cannot see this difference in terms of color. Perhaps it takes very little change in pH to strongly reduce the smell and pepper effect.
I've discussed this with other chemists here. We have no idea what these differences are from, but it might be that it requires very little pH change to dramatically change the nature of a nic-liq.
So don't assume everyone wants the nic to "go stealth" like it does in BE. For now, anyway, I'm a pepper!
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Kurt nice write up and thanks for all the PH work. I too prefer the "pepper" and have many mls of MFS nic. I did not care for the BE stuff much and found it just as you described although mine was slightly amber in color.
I agree, and we are having a great time mixing our own!! Went with box elder and love it...Flavor West is my new fav!!! Thanks Bug!!
Hey Joey!!
Don't give up. As someone else said, once you find your vendors- it's cheap, easy, and fun to diy.
That said:
*The higher the nic content- the stronger the smell, taste, and color. Diluting it down takes care of that.
*It's always a good idea to shake your nicotine and/or juice before using. Especially if it contains a higher vg content.
*Sitting in heat is never good for nic, but it is possible to get a bad batch too.
*All vendors are NOT created equal, but I've tried MFS in the past and they are one of the good ones here. Glad they are sorting it out for you.
Welcome to the dark side
Home again home again. Jiggity jig
It was described to me by another vendor that some vendors buy less then pure nic (example 95%) and then do the mix to downgrade the strength. As the stuff sits that 5% of whatever begins to age and get the rancid smell. I can't say weather this is accurate or not but seems valid. I know you can easily buy 99% pure nic at a low price and the less pure goes down from there. Maybe asking for a msds sheet from your nic vendor would show what they are using and would help you make a more informed purchase in the future. To each there own though.
I will however recommend crystalclearvaping Andrew is awesome at making customers informed and happy!
I will however recommend crystalclearvaping Andrew is awesome at making customers informed and happy!
Been reading all these posts..sorry for those that had a bad experience
I've bought in 100mg strength from xtreme vaping, and from a few other vendors at varying strengths
Though I believe Levy @ xtreme vaping has the ultimate in quality...re: the MFS order, I had no issue with what I received. (Yes, same lot # as you folks, too). It was also my 1st order from MFS.
I've bought in 100mg strength from xtreme vaping, and from a few other vendors at varying strengths
Though I believe Levy @ xtreme vaping has the ultimate in quality...re: the MFS order, I had no issue with what I received. (Yes, same lot # as you folks, too). It was also my 1st order from MFS.
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