A bit annoyed: vaping indoors all of a sudden upset ONE coworker

[Lova]

Don't go anywhere... many did counter your arguments, in great detail.

No apologies necessary from anyone. Look, you're fine, I carry no grudges, and I doubt anyone here does. But understand, when you live with "commune-like" or socialist upbringing you argue as you have, "for the betterment of the group," against smokers and vapers, vaping outside of defined smoking areas. Vapers are not smokers and they do not want to labeled as such. Your arguments hit many as ANTZ related b/c you give them concepts and ideas they can use against us.

The facts are in, and vaping is not smoking, and is relatively harmless to smoking. B/c I do not work in the development of argumentation for vaping, there will be little offered here. This is a site for vapers, where we coalesce to talk about vaping trends, not to argue against those who want to shut us down.

If you are interested in arguing with MD's, DR's and scientists that protect vaping, go to my Twitter account, @GeneticSequence, subscribe to my Twitter list "Vape" and have at it. They will eat you alive. It's all they do all day...and they will chop you down like wheat chaff being steamrolled by a tank.

Also, the US isn't based on group think. It is libertarian based..."rugged individualism," especially where it is defined, in the US Constitution, and throughout the US, EXCEPT for the inner cities. The inner cities in the US is where socialism in the US has taken hold(Obama's territory).

You would know how the military works. People in the military get stripes, bars and stars based on what they do, what they've earned, and how long they have been in. Strangely colored hair in the US is a "dog whistle" for "not having been around long enough to matter," and I'm willing to bet you're overlooking how you are perceived outside of your peer group. In the US, you cannot enlist in the military with tattoos in most cases, "body mods" or anything like it, and I would think Finland is the same.

Nobody wants any issues with vaping, but the City, County, State and Federal Govts are shutting it down here, and only due to the libertarian mindset in the US is it going to survive. Rugged individuals who take on Govt, start and maintain the black markets. For 2016, that is where we in the US are headed, unless a miracle happens.

Good points alltogether. Tattoos don't mean anything if you want to pursue military career here in Finland. You have to take out any piercings though if you get out to the field in military.

I've seen valid counterarguments, but also lots of personal attacks towards me. I do get that the community and society works differently in USA than here in Finland, and that's exactly why I'm apologizing.

If you were to vape in a store here, and someone spots you. The security guards would most likely come and kick you out of the store. In the worst case, you could get fined for vaping in a store.

I don't think the same applies there, as what I've gathered, most argumenters against my argument vape in stores, albeit stealthvaping/low wattage vaping.

Most if not all people I've met have looked at vapers as being jerks, and not even bother trying to talk to them. I have been in a bar with few other vapers and the bar allowed vaping. Others who were in the same bar did seem visibly uncomfortable being in the same area as vapers.

And how does hair colour really matter in any case? I prefer dying my hair to the colour I want to dye them, and I don't see how that would affect my personal knowledge and anything I believe in. I do get that some people don't like persons, that are comfortable in what they believe in and look like, and thus labeling them as something else they are. A counterargument to this would be, that are bodybuilders also something else they actually are just based on their looks?

My original argument was: Why would a person vape in a store, where it's not socially acceptable to vape in? Or any other place for that matter?

If you knew what I believe in, you'd know that I don't want to shut down vaping in any way, but to support it. But I don't see how vaping in a store or similar to that is helping vaping industry with regulations?

BLAKE VAPES (@blakevapes) • Instagram photos and videos

This person is a comedian(I guess), who vapes. He's got 155 thousand followers, and do you want to be seen like him? I highly doubt, as he vapes wherever he wants, and posts it on social media, which causes media negativity on vaping, which is I believe something we don't want. Sure there are hundreds of comments on how idiotic he is posted on his facebook and instagram, and those are posted by other vapers, who believe, that he should not be vaping where he is vaping. I really don't see how persons like BlakeVapes are helping the industry as a whole.

I didn't say, that I was going anywhere, but rather, that this whole arguing thing would stop as it's already gone to personal attacks towards me based on my profile picture and hair colour, which is, in my opinion, extremely unnecessary, and everyone would continue whatever they were doing before. I see what I've posted, and I'm not happy with some of the arguments I've made, and I just hope that everyone would just let this slip, and not continue. I sure can do that myself even though the personal attacks towards me and how "too young, not knowing life properly, how I'm worse as a person for having differently coloured hair and bodymods etc." I am.

 

[AndriaD]

Good points alltogether. Tattoos don't mean anything if you want to pursue military career here in Finland. You have to take out any piercings though if you get out to the field in military.

I've seen valid counterarguments, but also lots of personal attacks towards me. I do get that the community and society works differently in USA than here in Finland, and that's exactly why I'm apologizing.

If you were to vape in a store here, and someone spots you. The security guards would most likely come and kick you out of the store. In the worst case, you could get fined for vaping in a store.

I don't think the same applies there, as what I've gathered, most argumenters against my argument vape in stores, albeit stealthvaping/low wattage vaping.

Most if not all people I've met have looked at vapers as being jerks, and not even bother trying to talk to them. I have been in a bar with few other vapers and the bar allowed vaping. Others who were in the same bar did seem visibly uncomfortable being in the same area as vapers.

And how does hair colour really matter in any case? I prefer dying my hair to the colour I want to dye them, and I don't see how that would affect my personal knowledge and anything I believe in. I do get that some people don't like persons, that are comfortable in what they believe in and look like, and thus labeling them as something else they are. A counterargument to this would be, that are bodybuilders also something else they actually are just based on their looks?

My original argument was: Why would a person vape in a store, where it's not socially acceptable to vape in? Or any other place for that matter?

If you knew what I believe in, you'd know that I don't want to shut down vaping in any way, but to support it. But I don't see how vaping in a store or similar to that is helping vaping industry with regulations?

BLAKE VAPES (@blakevapes) • Instagram photos and videos

This person is a comedian(I guess), who vapes. He's got 155 thousand followers, and do you want to be seen like him? I highly doubt, as he vapes wherever he wants, and posts it on social media, which causes media negativity on vaping, which is I believe something we don't want. Sure there are hundreds of comments on how idiotic he is posted on his facebook and instagram, and those are posted by other vapers, who believe, that he should not be vaping where he is vaping. I really don't see how persons like BlakeVapes are helping the industry as a whole.

I didn't say, that I was going anywhere, but rather, that this whole arguing thing would stop as it's already gone to personal attacks towards me based on my profile picture and hair colour, which is, in my opinion, extremely unnecessary, and everyone would continue whatever they were doing before. I see what I've posted, and I'm not happy with some of the arguments I've made, and I just hope that everyone would just let this slip, and not continue. I sure can do that myself even though the personal attacks towards me and how "too young, not knowing life properly, how I'm worse as a person for having differently coloured hair and bodymods etc." I am.

You have to keep in mind that the US is made up of individual states -- and I'm thinking your whole country is about the size of some of those states, smaller than quite a few. Each of these states has its own laws regarding smoking and vaping -- for instance, in GA, you can smoke anywhere that you have to be 18 just to enter -- like a bar. And also in GA, it's already on the books that vaping is NOT the same thing as smoking, and other than gov't and educational bldgs, there are no laws forbidding vaping anywhere -- it's up to the individual establishment. Considering that usually southerners are portrayed as ignorant hillbillies, I'd call that quite a progressive attitude -- in fact, a lot more progressive than most other states in the US. If I was vaping someplace that didn't want me to vape, they certainly wouldn't "throw me out," unless I displayed an attitude -- they'd just ask me not to vape. If I gave them a bunch of lip, then they'd probably ask me to leave. If I didn't, then they'd probably call the police and I'd be arrested -- but they certainly wouldn't START with force!

If I lived in a place that started anything with force, I'd move! ASAP!

As for blue hair... over here, most would just think you're a flake, and wouldn't take anything you said seriously at all.

But it's certainly possible to vape, and not be detected doing so -- unless you just insist on vaping high-VG at 50 watts. With my 87% PG at 9 watts, I can vape in any public restroom and no one will ever know, just by holding in the small amount of vapor for a few seconds. But maybe they don't have stall doors in restrooms in Finland; if they're willing to start any encounter with force, they probably don't believe in privacy either.

Andria

 

[Lova]

You have to keep in mind that the US is made up of individual states -- and I'm thinking your whole country is about the size of some of those states, smaller than quite a few. Each of these states has its own laws regarding smoking and vaping -- for instance, in GA, you can smoke anywhere that you have to be 18 just to enter -- like a bar. And also in GA, it's already on the books that vaping is NOT the same thing as smoking, and other than gov't and educational bldgs, there are no laws forbidding vaping anywhere -- it's up to the individual establishment. Considering that usually southerners are portrayed as ignorant hillbillies, I'd call that quite a progressive attitude -- in fact, a lot more progressive than most other states in the US. If I was vaping someplace that didn't want me to vape, they certainly wouldn't "throw me out," unless I displayed an attitude -- they'd just ask me not to vape. If I gave them a bunch of lip, then they'd probably ask me to leave. If I didn't, then they'd probably call the police and I'd be arrested -- but they certainly wouldn't START with force!

If I lived in a place that started anything with force, I'd move! ASAP!

As for blue hair... over here, most would just think you're a flake, and wouldn't take anything you said seriously at all.

But it's certainly possible to vape, and not be detected doing so -- unless you just insist on vaping high-VG at 50 watts. With my 87% PG at 9 watts, I can vape in any public restroom and no one will ever know, just by holding in the small amount of vapor for a few seconds. But maybe they don't have stall doors in restrooms in Finland; if they're willing to start any encounter with force, they probably don't believe in privacy either.

Andria

Yeah, and I already stated that in the post I made couple of hours ago, the one I tagged you in.

I did say "kick out", but that's one of the worst case scenarios, you'd be asked to leave firstly, if you don't comply, the security has every right to use necessary force to take you out of the store, unless they decide to call the police first.

One thing I don't get, is that people seem to be fixated on my 'boheme' outlook with piercings and blue hair, and tell that I'm a nogood punk with no knowledge of life at all or that I'm a socialist essentially from what I've read from the comments targetted to me personally.

The line of work I do, doesn't really look into what kind of look you posess, and that's freelance photography and graphic design.

Also, I do understand that you have many states, which is why I can't possibly keep up with all legalities in every single state.

(Now, another personal opinion):
Lastly, I think that ECF should be kept clear, and labeling someone based on haircolour and doing that publicly is really unnecessary and hurtful towards the person beint labeled. I don't really care if you label me in your head, but on a public forum, that's international, it pretty much counts as a personal attack and defamation. I personally try and get to know a person better before drawing any conclusions of the specific person. I actually met a really damn friendly dude, who looks like a hippie, but is really down-to-earth person with really interesting hobbies.

 

[mauricem00]

this is a vaping forum.vaping is the only thing we all have in common. how a person looks should not matter. what they can contribute to the vaping community should be all that matters here.but then i'm not one of those who needs to tear down others to feel good about myself. I am happy with what ive accomplished in my life

 

[AndriaD]

Yeah, and I already stated that in the post I made couple of hours ago, the one I tagged you in.

I did say "kick out", but that's one of the worst case scenarios, you'd be asked to leave firstly, if you don't comply, the security has every right to use necessary force to take you out of the store, unless they decide to call the police first.

One thing I don't get, is that people seem to be fixated on my 'boheme' outlook with piercings and blue hair, and tell that I'm a nogood punk with no knowledge of life at all or that I'm a socialist essentially from what I've read from the comments targetted to me personally.

The line of work I do, doesn't really look into what kind of look you posess, and that's freelance photography and graphic design.

Also, I do understand that you have many states, which is why I can't possibly keep up with all legalities in every single state.

(Now, another personal opinion):
Lastly, I think that ECF should be kept clear, and labeling someone based on haircolour and doing that publicly is really unnecessary and hurtful towards the person beint labeled. I don't really care if you label me in your head, but on a public forum, that's international, it pretty much counts as a personal attack and defamation. I personally try and get to know a person better before drawing any conclusions of the specific person. I actually met a really damn friendly dude, who looks like a hippie, but is really down-to-earth person with really interesting hobbies.

Most of us don't personally care if you color your hair green, purple, blue or camo, but you did ask -- I'm sure in other localities, nobody would bat an eye -- in places like New York City or southern California, maybe -- lots of weirdness in those places, for sure! But here? People would stare, and maybe even laugh, and nobody would take you seriously. Or they'd figure you were in costume for something. But it's certainly true that in the south, outside of big cities, people are a bit conservative -- I've sometimes had my hair turn out redder than I intended, and felt quite the object of derision, or at least, negative attention. And although the big cities in the US seem to get the most attention, most of us here aren't from those places -- we're from the "fly over" places. We don't often (or ever) see anyone with blue hair, so... it's definitely something to stare at, and wonder why on earth someone would do that to themselves. I always wonder that when I see someone with a tongue-piercing.

Andria

 

[Lova]

Most of us don't personally care if you color your hair green, purple, blue or camo, but you did ask -- I'm sure in other localities, nobody would bat an eye -- in places like New York City or southern California, maybe -- lots of weirdness in those places, for sure! But here? People would stare, and maybe even laugh, and nobody would take you seriously. Or they'd figure you were in costume for something. But it's certainly true that in the south, outside of big cities, people are a bit conservative -- I've sometimes had my hair turn out redder than I intended, and felt quite the object of derision, or at least, negative attention. And although the big cities in the US seem to get the most attention, most of us here aren't from those places -- we're from the "fly over" places. We don't often (or ever) see anyone with blue hair, so... it's definitely something to stare at, and wonder why on earth someone would do that to themselves. I always wonder that when I see someone with a tongue-piercing.

Andria

Yeah, I know. Seems like there are some people who still think that dying your hair any other colour than natural colours is blasphemy, as I've noticed in this thread.

About piercings, I'll be sure to send you a pic of mine when I get my tongue piercings and tongue bifurcation hahaha!
-Lova

Edit: dying your hair doesn't mean you can't look 'professional' and cleanly dressed:

Edit 2: Another pic of me for good measure, with all my piercings and dyed hair somewhay visible:

 

[DC2]

Since we're commenting on your looks...
Those glasses seem to suit you better than the black-rimmed ones.


If your girlfriend/wife/significant other does not agree...
Then pay me no mind.

 

[Jman8]

So me trying to explain my opinion is socialism? Also Ad Hominem habitus has been strong against me in this thread already. I like to dye my hair to every colour in the rainbow and get different types of bodymods, suddenly that makes me a "smurf look-alike" or "stubborn individualist"? I don't get why attack me personally when you could just counterargue my points. My opinion is most likely a "culture shock" which in term makes me look like a socialist to you, so I won't bother arguing against you guys anymore. You have your own ways of living, and I have mine.


Precisely, this is a thing we can both agree on.

Okay, I do submit that I've been in the wrong, but I count it to as being "culture shock", as vaping indoors in a place where smoking is not allowed would be pretty disasterous, and possibly get you fined around here.

I do see both sides of the whole argument, and understand both sides, but labeling me as a socialist based on my looks and profile pic is labeling at its worst in my opinion.

I do see me being harsh on some arguments of mine, and I do apologize for that. But attacking someone personally based on the text they are writing and their profile picture is a big no-no in my books.


I apologize to you guys personally, and to everyone other I've insulted through my arguments. I see how things go all over the world, and everyone is their own lord, so I don't really have any say in that and I do understand that. I've been quite stressed out lately, so I might have not been the best arguer out there to-date.

I hope we all can just be relaxed about this whole thing that went on, and I still feel rather bad about some of my comments. Let's just say both sides of this whole "argument war" could've been more friendly to eachother.

Peace, and vape on
-Lova

Just reviewed the thread and up until around p. 13, the (alleged) personal attacks are between very few and rare. IMO, people responding to you are reeling from comments like, "if I see you vaping indoors, I won't tolerate it and will see to it you are busted." While that 'you' is general and not personal to anyone in this thread (how could it be?), it is still a highly inflammatory comment to make on a vaping forum, especially given the heated politics of the day, or last few years. This isn't only type of comment you made in this vein.

When your hair color enters the debate as if that is pertinent to discussion on vaping indoors, I got lost by those who are otherwise strongly favoring my take on this. IMO, how you are personally has little to do with this discussion, except as your characteristic traits relate to indoor vaping. Telling me you won't tolerate me vaping indoors while you witness it, is revealing a trait (about you) that I think is fair game in this thread for countering your rhetoric, very strongly. If that results in personal attack on you, I think it ought to be called out/moderated, but that doesn't equate to you are now a helpless victim among wolves and all should abandon the debate topic, because of words. Seriously, just words.

So, I do wonder if you have understanding now on why someone would vape indoors where there are no smoking signs present? Cause if not, I'd like to help you understand that. It seems like you are suggesting that due to fear of the law in your own country, it would be foolish to do this, and therefore this ought to apply everywhere. What you are conveying isn't vastly different than what could occur in the U.S. If I vape in say a hospital in the U.S. and get caught, I'd probably be asked to leave. If I resisted that and argued with them (escalating tensions), I'd probably get some sort of fine. So, not so different really. Only difference might be that in U.S. it is possible in many places, you'd simply be asked to stop vaping and allowed to stay there. I'd give that a 30% chance of happening, and thus 70% likely you'd be asked to leave. Depends on a whole bunch of factors, not the least of which is which state you are in and who currently holds power in the state (Pubs or Dems). In a state like California or Hawaii, I imagine you'd be asked to leave 95% of the time and fined in those same states around 20% of the time, even if you didn't escalate.

So, then why vape if you are going to go through that sort of hassle? Because of what vaping indoors actually entails. My word of advice would be: don't get caught. Like, we already have very well known laws in the U.S. (I imagine worldwide) to not drive over the speed limit. Seems infinitely more dangerous to me to speed on a road than it is to vape indoors. And yet, I'm 99.9% sure I could go to ANY road in the U.S. and find someone (likely a majority) driving over the speed limit. Did they ask for permission to drive over the speed limit? No? Then why is that permissible in anyone's mind? I'd say it is permissible because the overarching rule is, don't get caught. If you do get caught, you might not want to escalate tensions with the person who catches you, or your excursion could go from (LEO saying), "I was just going to give you friendly warning for driving 3 miles over limit, but based on your attitude, I'm giving you full $235 fine and 3 points for moving vehicle violation."

I don't get why ANY fellow vaper would have issue with vaping in any restroom of an indoor establishment regardless of the stated policies. I get why people would advocate for not vaping in a place that has signs that say "no vaping." But what would really be the issue with vaping in certain locations (especially if other people are not present)? Is it simply the disobeying authority thing that gives people issue here? Or is it really this notion that media would be far nicer to us if there wasn't these disobedient/obnoxious vapers around?

I think the disobedient thing can be explained and right about now, given state of politics is a very worthwhile debate to be having within vaping community. I'll discuss / debate that with gusto. Please, bring it on.

The media thing is IMO laughable. Would be less laughable if media presented the other side of the situation without bias. As in shown a person vaping indoors with no one around, using a device that produces small wisps of vapor. That would be my experience around 80% of the time when I vape in public. Plus, show through popular media the scientific data that explains chemicals in exhaled vapor are on par with normal room air. But not showing that info and only showing big clouds that are present with other people somewhere nearby, and insinuating that something dreadful is occurring is laughable. If a fellow vaper on a vaping forum cannot see that, and they've been vaping for years (not months) and are attuned to the political fight, then it is very challenging to go along with their support for that type of media. IMO, they deserve to be dealt with on a forum with very strong arguments about how they are placating the anti-movement and thus feeding the 'authority' that does deserve to be disobeyed given how things have gone the last 5 to 65 years on this very issue.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

Yeah, and I already stated that in the post I made couple of hours ago, the one I tagged you in.

I did say "kick out", but that's one of the worst case scenarios, you'd be asked to leave firstly, if you don't comply, the security has every right to use necessary force to take you out of the store, unless they decide to call the police first.

One thing I don't get, is that people seem to be fixated on my 'boheme' outlook with piercings and blue hair, and tell that I'm a nogood punk with no knowledge of life at all or that I'm a socialist essentially from what I've read from the comments targetted to me personally.

The line of work I do, doesn't really look into what kind of look you posess, and that's freelance photography and graphic design.

Also, I do understand that you have many states, which is why I can't possibly keep up with all legalities in every single state.

(Now, another personal opinion):
Lastly, I think that ECF should be kept clear, and labeling someone based on haircolour and doing that publicly is really unnecessary and hurtful towards the person beint labeled. I don't really care if you label me in your head, but on a public forum, that's international, it pretty much counts as a personal attack and defamation. I personally try and get to know a person better before drawing any conclusions of the specific person. I actually met a really damn friendly dude, who looks like a hippie, but is really down-to-earth person with really interesting hobbies.

It's easier to set you on "ignore." Done. Now I'm a socialist too.

 

[DC2]

I saw this in another thread, but thought it appropriate for this discussion...

 

[Tommy-Chi]

I saw this in another thread, but thought it appropriate for this discussion...

I think these things are cyclical. Americans chew up and spit out anyone that assumes that office after 4yrs. Reelection of these people seems to make it just more aggravating because little to nothing gets done. We need additional amendments for term limits.

I did not vote for Mr Obama, but I had really high hopes for him. He did some good things. But where he really blew it for us here at home was in energy. I expected him to roll out charging stations, provide funding for nuclear power plants where warranted, and increase funds dramatically for energy storage. Instead we got solar panels, which the Chinese knocked off and mass produce cheaper...especially after stealing the technologies.

Wind, solar, biofuels...cannot and will not power the next generation of mass transportation. Not now, and not for the next 40 to 60 yrs. I live in Chicago and am from 35 miles West of Chicago and there is a dearth of power stations for charging cars. When I mention this usually some imp, directs me to one a mile away from my house. OK. But there are more than 1,500 cars in my little community. STUPID. I would never invest in a purely electric car at this point...and for that, he is a failure.

 

[Lova]

Just reviewed the thread and up until around p. 13, the (alleged) personal attacks are between very few and rare. IMO, people responding to you are reeling from comments like, "if I see you vaping indoors, I won't tolerate it and will see to it you are busted." While that 'you' is general and not personal to anyone in this thread (how could it be?), it is still a highly inflammatory comment to make on a vaping forum, especially given the heated politics of the day, or last few years. This isn't only type of comment you made in this vein.

When your hair color enters the debate as if that is pertinent to discussion on vaping indoors, I got lost by those who are otherwise strongly favoring my take on this. IMO, how you are personally has little to do with this discussion, except as your characteristic traits relate to indoor vaping. Telling me you won't tolerate me vaping indoors while you witness it, is revealing a trait (about you) that I think is fair game in this thread for countering your rhetoric, very strongly. If that results in personal attack on you, I think it ought to be called out/moderated, but that doesn't equate to you are now a helpless victim among wolves and all should abandon the debate topic, because of words. Seriously, just words.

So, I do wonder if you have understanding now on why someone would vape indoors where there are no smoking signs present? Cause if not, I'd like to help you understand that. It seems like you are suggesting that due to fear of the law in your own country, it would be foolish to do this, and therefore this ought to apply everywhere. What you are conveying isn't vastly different than what could occur in the U.S. If I vape in say a hospital in the U.S. and get caught, I'd probably be asked to leave. If I resisted that and argued with them (escalating tensions), I'd probably get some sort of fine. So, not so different really. Only difference might be that in U.S. it is possible in many places, you'd simply be asked to stop vaping and allowed to stay there. I'd give that a 30% chance of happening, and thus 70% likely you'd be asked to leave. Depends on a whole bunch of factors, not the least of which is which state you are in and who currently holds power in the state (Pubs or Dems). In a state like California or Hawaii, I imagine you'd be asked to leave 95% of the time and fined in those same states around 20% of the time, even if you didn't escalate.

So, then why vape if you are going to go through that sort of hassle? Because of what vaping indoors actually entails. My word of advice would be: don't get caught. Like, we already have very well known laws in the U.S. (I imagine worldwide) to not drive over the speed limit. Seems infinitely more dangerous to me to speed on a road than it is to vape indoors. And yet, I'm 99.9% sure I could go to ANY road in the U.S. and find someone (likely a majority) driving over the speed limit. Did they ask for permission to drive over the speed limit? No? Then why is that permissible in anyone's mind? I'd say it is permissible because the overarching rule is, don't get caught. If you do get caught, you might not want to escalate tensions with the person who catches you, or your excursion could go from (LEO saying), "I was just going to give you friendly warning for driving 3 miles over limit, but based on your attitude, I'm giving you full $235 fine and 3 points for moving vehicle violation."

I don't get why ANY fellow vaper would have issue with vaping in any restroom of an indoor establishment regardless of the stated policies. I get why people would advocate for not vaping in a place that has signs that say "no vaping." But what would really be the issue with vaping in certain locations (especially if other people are not present)? Is it simply the disobeying authority thing that gives people issue here? Or is it really this notion that media would be far nicer to us if there wasn't these disobedient/obnoxious vapers around?

I think the disobedient thing can be explained and right about now, given state of politics is a very worthwhile debate to be having within vaping community. I'll discuss / debate that with gusto. Please, bring it on.

The media thing is IMO laughable. Would be less laughable if media presented the other side of the situation without bias. As in shown a person vaping indoors with no one around, using a device that produces small wisps of vapor. That would be my experience around 80% of the time when I vape in public. Plus, show through popular media the scientific data that explains chemicals in exhaled vapor are on par with normal room air. But not showing that info and only showing big clouds that are present with other people somewhere nearby, and insinuating that something dreadful is occurring is laughable. If a fellow vaper on a vaping forum cannot see that, and they've been vaping for years (not months) and are attuned to the political fight, then it is very challenging to go along with their support for that type of media. IMO, they deserve to be dealt with on a forum with very strong arguments about how they are placating the anti-movement and thus feeding the 'authority' that does deserve to be disobeyed given how things have gone the last 5 to 65 years on this very issue.

Yup, and I've noticed that also myself, but I still don't see how my looks are fair game to use as a method of "arguing". I did make a post apologizing about everything I said, and why I said it and what I think caused the inflammation in this thread. I've been sleeping extremely badly lately, and been stressed out due to lots of different things, which is why I've said the things I said.

I do apologize for making so negative comments about vaping in general, but as I said, I count it to being "social shock" or culture shock from my end and possibly from your end also towards my comments and arguments and opinions; around here, no vaper would even think of vaping in a store or schools, even if there are no "no vaping" signs around. I do see why you would do that around there, but I personally still don't fully understand it.

I don't really know why I said those things, but I guess this whole thread was "eye-opening" to me so to say about the situation over there. I also said earlier, that as you have so many different states, it's practically impossible for me to know what is allowed and what is not in every single state, which is also why I made the apology-post from my end.

I personally don't wish any negativity for anyone, and I do hope that we all can let this argument and arguing thing just go. There's been too much negativity from both sides of this conversation, and I don't wish to continue this and possibly upset even more people.


Lastly, I wish all the good to all you guys on this thread

Peace and vape on
-Lova

 

[kbeam418]

Tell her, as Randy from TPB says, to off nicely of course. I don't like it when someone eats fish and stinks up a whole break room but I don't complain because it's not my right. My advice to anyone vaping indoors is don't chuck clouds, if you use high wattage take into your' lungs and inhale hold it for 2 seconds then exhale. Back when you could smoke in restaurants you couldn't bring in a hookah and hit it.

 

[snork]

I saw this in another thread, but thought it appropriate for this discussion...

Where do people like me come in who want a smaller government providing more services and a helluva lot less legislation?

 

[MacTechVpr]

I'm sorry I haven't read this entire thread (usually try but tired this eve). What I don't get is where do objectors get the right, including employers, to subject you to the very real risks of unnecessary external exposure to weather for instance? Or the likely risk of evaluations of underperformance or lack of diligence due to your activity? And where do they get off objecting to smoking yet making decisions for you? As if your health were any less important than anyone else's?

I'm not disputing an employer has a right in most places to determine the workplace policies for their premises. But isn't it irrational to put you at a risk they themselves might object to? Say, for their cologne. And doesn't your offense matter as much as the next persons to unreasonable coercion?

When does the discussion actually turn to real facts rather than prejudice, impugned harm and marginalization? The minute you've made the claim of no combustion you've put the onus on them to put up or shut up. Really. Logically and perhaps even legally. Why can't we make the claim of harassment? Why are so many of us sitting still for this?

It's not an employer's job to protect others at your expense. The truth is out there.

Whenever I run across an objector I immediately offer to stop, if they have the reasonable information to persuade you that your causing any harm. Offer to help. Expose the prejudice.

"A powerful preventive against pneumonia, influenza and other respiratory diseases may be promised by a brilliant series of experiments conducted during the last three years at the University of Chicago's Billings Hospital. Dr. Oswald Hope Robertson last week was making final tests with a new germicidal vapor—propylene glycol—to sterilize air. If the results so far obtained are confirmed, one of the age-old searches of man will finally achieve its goal." —Time, Monday, Nov. 16, 1942

Vape on! Sterilize 'em.



Good luck.

 

[Steamix]

Suomalaismiehen sähkötupakka räjähti keskellä yötä - tuhosi firman kirjanpidon
"Exploding eCig destroyed accounting papers"

Nice one

I wonder if my IRS - controller will buy it

If so ... 'exploding e-cig qualifies for tax break' ...that would make a nice headline

Vapour looks like smoke. So ? Because something looks like something else does not oblige me to do or not to do something. If pre-judiced folks jump to conclusions - their problem.
Sugar looks like a white powder. So do a lot of other substances, a good number of them highly illegal.
Don't rightly recall anyone doing time for importing sugar... Just because it 'looks' like other stuff.

And if the lady in the office makes another case of drama : Every breath you take contains - statistically - a good percentage of air molecules that have passed someone else's digestive tract through the back end...

Enjoy your 'fresh' air ... while I enjoy my vape

 

[MacTechVpr]

We must be willing to protest rightfully as eagerly and certainly as those willing to object arbitrarily.

Or are we deserving of their criticism and control?

Good luck all.

 

[mauricem00]

I saw this in another thread, but thought it appropriate for this discussion...

many of these people who want smaller government and less services don't want their subsidies cut. we are a strange people

 

[mauricem00]

Where do people like me come in who want a smaller government providing more services and a helluva lot less legislation?

I think you would be called a Jeffersonian socialist.

 

[pluviose]

I apologize to you guys personally, and to everyone other I've insulted through my arguments.

Lova, you didn't insult anyone (certainly not me), it was all perfectly cordial if you ask me - much appreciated though, and so i apologise likewise. You're a fine chap.

Last word on the hair matter, i think it was a case of multiple mutual misunderstandings.

how I'm worse as a person for having differently coloured hair and bodymods etc." I am.

Yeah, I know. Seems like there are some people who still think that dying your hair any other colour than natural colours is blasphemy, as I've noticed in this thread.

^ See, that's why i guess it boils down to cultural differences. In the UK / USA it's not "different" or "blasphemy" anymore since long, but became a uniform of SJWs (an illiberal, statist cabal per definition) - hence my kneejerk "socialist" accusation.
Which is a shame if you ask me. (If i was in my twenties / 30s, chances are i'd very much like to have blue hair and i'd be mightily ...... off that the SJWs hijacked and ruined it beyond wearability. And i'm someone who never gave a toss about how others perceive me - but it's one of the very few things i wouldn't want to be associated with, ever.) I can imagine it's entirely different in Finland.
And hereby i admit i made a rash judgement based on your hair, apologies for that.

Those glasses seem to suit you better than the black-rimmed ones.

Agreed! I also like the Corto Maltese look, suits you mighty fine!