A bit annoyed: vaping indoors all of a sudden upset ONE coworker

[snork]

(updated count)

YOU'RE AN ANTZ, HE'S AN ANTZ, EVERYONE'S AN ANTZ!

I imagine this post will get removed.. The point still stands.

Apparently the point is that JMan8 points at everybody (including himself) and calls them on their ANTZ-influenced ways of thinking. It can hurt a little bit but it's the truth.

 

[Lova]

Your opinion doesn't make sense. How some vapers conduct themselves in public doesn't reflect on the majority, while how ANTZ rhetoric is framed in society, clearly does.

We already live in a world where vapers have intentionally blown their exhaled vapor in a visibly obnoxious way toward (presumably) non vapers, and that isn't what I routinely encounter as perceived normal behavior of vapers (from non-vapers I know).

In that same world, we went from being able to do it everywhere, to having less places to do it openly while at same time, ANTZ rhetoric regarding harms has gone up. And while almost all of that rhetoric (like the secondhand smoking data) has been debunked. Thus, it is clearly not the (rare) obnoxious vaper that has turned the tide, but is the ANTZ rhetoric. Fortunately, where I live, it hasn't quite caught on or gotten anywhere near the point of what people still believe about SHS.



Unfounded accusation to suggest it would make anyone feel every vaper is 'like that.' And I challenge you to back up assertion (opinion) of explicitly making people feel a particular way.

Would be glad to explain the need/desire to vape everywhere with respect, but even the way you framed it is based on ANTZ rhetoric, i.e. "without any regard for other people."



News articles / data that is not critically analyzed is easily the more harmful item for vapers all over the world.

If one compares the chemicals in exhaled human breath to exhaled vapor, they'd see similarity and plausibly conclude that exhaled human breath is worse for fellow humans. If an article was ran speaking only about the chemicals released into the air from human breath, without any critical temperament as to notion of "trace amounts," I think there are enough people around currently to take the teeny tiny molehill of an issue and make it seem like we've all been foolish up to this point in history to not be breathing in public without a filter over our mouths.

The idea of not being allowed to vape in public lends strong credence to what I wrote in above paragraph.



Common sense got lost when ANTZ rhetoric took over circa 1960's.

IMO, it is sensible / common sense to view society through prism of greatly influenced by ANTZ rhetoric. If there is doubt on this at any point with any person, just go up and ask them what they know about SHS and SHV, and listen / observe. Chances are good they'll convey information that is rather easy to counter and/or debunk.

From what I'm reading in your post, you are greatly influenced by ANTZ rhetoric. Much of what you wrote had to be framed in ways that show it impossible for a vaper to vape in public without it being inherently disrespectful. I find that sad, on a vaping forum. But am ALWAYS up for this debate. Knowing you have more posts on this thread allows me to publicly state more on this tangent as I think it is warranted, and who knows who will come across this thread on a search. I'd rather it be on record that some of us had common sense than those of us who fell in line with ANTZ rhetoric without thinking things through.

I really don't get how people who think you should only vape where you are allowed to smoke can also allow themselves to vape in their own homes without that being explicitly understood that it MUST be okay to smoke there. If it is not, it is clearly hypocrisy.

I would say in most instances where I vape in public, it is unknown that I am vaping there. And I am of position of "vape everywhere with respect." This doesn't mean I vape everywhere I go (though it could mean that). It means everywhere I vape, I do it with respect to others. I've stated on open forum that a hospital is one of the best (indoor) public places to vape, because there are umpteen dozen places on a hospital campus where it would be near impossible to detect a vaper was there, unless a security camera caught the vaper in the act. Even in that instance, it is quite plausible that the vaper did vape in that situation with regards to others.

If people are afraid of what's in eLiquid, then that is simply ignorance. Again, exhaled human breath could (rather easily) be presented as dangerous if article were written in such a way to state chemicals that are released into the air from exhaling.

If people were genuine in their concern and consistent on this issue, they'd be advocating for everyone to wear a filter over their mouth at all times in public. That would put an end to public vaping fairly quickly. Until that day comes about, I maintain my position of vape everywhere with respect. As I'm still batting 1.000 after 4+ years of vaping, it has been non-issue for me as to what could happen if someone saw me and disliked what I was doing. I'm not 'stealth vaping' but also just know how to vape in public so that it would be almost impossible to be caught in the act.

There's really not a place that someone could name that I wouldn't vape, while there are likely situations in any place (includes vape shops, or even outdoors) that I might not vape in. Any place that has a rest room would be a place where I'd challenge even a die hard vaper to determine if I vaped in the place or not. I'm thinking most would not know, for sure, or would only be guessing.



And I say this in rebuttal. I won't tolerate on an open vaping forum for people to espousing the notion that vaping in public is inherently disrespectful.

If you can't bring yourself to the position of saying it is not inherently disrespectful to vape in public (where you are not allowed to smoke), then I say let the debate continue.



These regulations are CLEARLY based on ANTZ rhetoric. Of the people that hang out on this site regularly in the politics of vaping type sections, there are maybe 3 (at most) that see it as mostly/entirely on vapers the problems that face vaping as a community. And regularly, it is noted that it is ANTZ rhetoric that is doing us in. When fellow vapers do not critically analyze the rhetoric and tactics, it is sad, but it is also fairly normal, especially for newbies to the site.

I've said this before, and will say it again, everyone I've ever met or heard of has a little ANTZ in them. So there are degrees of it. As I've quit cold turkey in my past, I can recall being a bit ANTZ-like at points in my life, and yet while being a ex-smoker for around 5 years, I made a room (nice, fun place) in my house to allow for smoking. Thus, I've never really been extremely ANTZ. But even today, there is perhaps a smidgeon of ANTZ like philosophy running through me, and I'm usually glad when that is confronted/addressed. I disdain that part of me, but again consider it 'normal' for current world culture.

Vapers have many notions of what is our opposition's main goal. Things like: money, control, and power usually appear at or near the top of most people's lists. Me: I am convinced it is shame/shaming in hopes that will lead to eradication of all nicotine use/users on the planet. When I see shaming, I counter it. Presenting a position of vaping in public is as shameful as smoking there is grounds for me to write long rebuttals that take that position apart and expose it for what it is: FUD.

We at least partially agree on this. From day 1, when I heard of of diacetyl being found in eLiquid (where vendors claimed it wasn't), I took it as next likely candidate for ANTZ to shame users on the 'danger' aspect of their activity. We had formaldehyde before that and anti-freeze before that. Diacetyl will not be the final item that is used to scare vapers.

Thus, not really accurate to say media and governments followed our cries on this. Though there is truth to that, because some vapers went from position of "flavors are wonderful" to "I will only do unflavored now. Because I care about my health." That's all fine and good as far as personal positions go, but when fellow vaper enters into public debate in vein of "so should you!" then it is really just a proxy battle with ANTZ-like rhetoric in the mix.

The thing missing from many of these debates we have, though @DC2 and @Kent C (perhaps others) would not be included in this assertion, is that what we are actually fighting is war against smoking/vaping that began circa 1950 and has gained steam throughout current history. Vaping set that back in so many ways, it is hard to quantify. But, the position of ANTZ rhetoric and it's influence on media / governments is very pertinent to what we are up against.

I believe there is such a thing as 'full blown ANTZ' and don't think we see that on the forum except in some odd cases where a person is posing as vaper and constantly starts threads that amount to 'here's another version of FUD, but I hope you all see it as your activity is dangerous.' Even then, it is impossible to know if it is full blown ANTZ operative who's doing this. Plus, it is not good forum practice to go after person rather that the position/rhetoric.

When it comes to media / government, I think it is very obvious that full blown ANTZ operatives are framing the discussion in general public. Usually, they don't even hide it, because it is like we live in a world where Nazis won (their) world war and are proud to state their political stance. As if being a prohibitionist / puritan is something to celebrate or admire.

But it is this rhetoric and it's historical grasp on human society that we are up against, in shared reality. And while it is plausible that obnoxious acting vaper in public does add 'fuel to the fire' it is also far more likely that existence of free roaming nicotine on the planet (be that in legal or illegal markets) is all the fuel the fire needs to keep going. From full blown ANTZ perspective, everything else, I imagine, is a blip on the radar and best case scenario is that current users feel more shame than pride in whatever that blip is currently presenting to society as a whole.

I say bump that and yes, let us stoke the flames in a way that uses science, respect and political civil disobedience to turn the tide back: to the position of common sense and human decency.

<

Valid points. I've never been against vaping in the public, but due to some social media posts of people blowing clouds in walmart etc. has kinda flipped a switch in me, and I apologize for that. I'm also not trying to make things seem like it's inappropriate to vape outdoors etc, but as I said later on, that I live in Finland, where you most likely would get kicked out of a store for vaping inside, which is why I said I feel like it's just better to stay home. It could be that I'm influenced by ANTZ, but don't you see how acting like most of social media vapers who blow clouds wherever is harming the whole e-cig/vaping industry? Common sense is quite handy to own, which is why I'm against everyone who says vaping is allowed where there is no "No Vaping" signs, even if it goes against their own ideology.

Is it appropriate to vape in places where there's only "No Smoking" signs? No. And that's my whole point.

Is it appropriate to vape in places where there's no signs at all? Yes.

Is it appropriate to vape in stores for example? No, and that will be my idea until I die.

We need more media attention on things that are true, like what e-liquid contains, proper studies on dangers of vaping and so forth. We do _not_ need media attention on people vaping in stores where there are no "No Vaping" signs and acting like they know better. Media will always be tainted as long as there's people who believe vaping is harmful and that is exactly why we need to fight the whole ideology of "I'm a vaper, I'm allowed to whatever I want if there's no signs telling me not to, in which case I will complain on an online forum about it."

Let's do an analogy:

Which post do you think will gain/has gained more media attention:

A: Someone posts themselves vaping in a store and gets 100 000 likes on the picture?

B: Someone posts actual studies about the real hazards of vaping and gets 10 likes on the post?

Which one of those will the mainstream media and news groups see first and use it to base yet another "How vaping is harmful" news story? I'm pretty sure most if not all say it's the one with 100 000 likes.

This is the reason why I'm against people vaping in stores and elsewhere where smoking isn't allowed, it's because social media and other routes can and will use some of those stories to fight against vaping in general.

 

[braveminion]

<

Valid points. I've never been against vaping in the public, but due to some social media posts of people blowing clouds in walmart etc. has kinda flipped a switch in me, and I apologize for that. I'm also not trying to make things seem like it's inappropriate to vape outdoors etc, but as I said later on, that I live in Finland, where you most likely would get kicked out of a store for vaping inside, which is why I said I feel like it's just better to stay home. It could be that I'm influenced by ANTZ, but don't you see how acting like most of social media vapers who blow clouds wherever is harming the whole e-cig/vaping industry? Common sense is quite handy to own, which is why I'm against everyone who says vaping is allowed where there is no "No Vaping" signs, even if it goes against their own ideology.

Is it appropriate to vape in places where there's only "No Smoking" signs? No. And that's my whole point.

Is it appropriate to vape in places where there's no signs at all? Yes.

Is it appropriate to vape in stores for example? No, and that will be my idea until I die.

We need more media attention on things that are true, like what e-liquid contains, proper studies on dangers of vaping and so forth. We do _not_ need media attention on people vaping in stores where there are no "No Vaping" signs and acting like they know better. Media will always be tainted as long as there's people who believe vaping is harmful and that is exactly why we need to fight the whole ideology of "I'm a vaper, I'm allowed to whatever I want if there's no signs telling me not to, in which case I will complain on an online forum about it."

Let's do an analogy:

Which post do you think will gain/has gained more media attention:

A: Someone posts themselves vaping in a store and gets 100 000 likes on the picture?

B: Someone posts actual studies about the real hazards of vaping and gets 10 likes on the post?

Which one of those will the mainstream media and news groups see first and use it to base yet another "How vaping is harmful" news story? I'm pretty sure most if not all say it's the one with 100 000 likes.

This is the reason why I'm against people vaping in stores and elsewhere where smoking isn't allowed, it's because social media and other routes can and will use some of those stories to fight against vaping in general.

Why wouldn't you vape where you see a no smoking sign? If you are smoking while you are vaping, you are doing something wrong and should probably quit for the good of your health.

If vapers can't distinguish between smoking and vaping, what hope is there for the rest of the world?

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[Lova]

Why wouldn't you vape where you see a no smoking sign? If you are smoking while you are vaping, you are doing something wrong and should probably quit for the good of your health.

If vapers can't distinguish between smoking and vaping, what hope is there for the rest of the world?

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Tell that same thing to mainstream news. I highly doubt they will listen. Vaping produces vapor which is seen as smoke by thousands and thousands, that's why I won't vape where there's "No Smoking" signs. I don't want to be the possible cause for even harsher regulations.

 

[braveminion]

Tell that same thing to mainstream news. I highly doubt they will listen. Vaping produces vapor which is seen as smoke by thousands and thousands, that's why I won't vape where there's "No Smoking" signs. I don't want to be the possible cause for even harsher regulations.

And having black slaves was seen as acceptable until very recently. That doesn't make that way of thinking right.

I'm not going to be dictated to by scaremongering media and misinformed people. If any one can show me indisputable proof that my past time of vaping is doing any harm to anyone but myself, then I'll stop doing it anywhere near any other person. Until then I am not going to avoid vaping in a bid to avoid been forced to avoid vaping. Makes no sense.



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[Lova]

And having black slaves was seen as acceptable until very recently. That doesn't make that way of thinking right.

I'm not going to be dictated to by scaremongering media and misinformed people. If any one can show me indisputable proof that my past time of vaping is doing any harm to anyone but myself, then I'll stop doing it anywhere near any other person. Until then I am not going to avoid vaping in a bid to avoid been forced to avoid vaping. Makes no sense.



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Let's make another analogy:

Would you vape in a school where there's no "No Vaping" signs during a class or even a break if you were a student there?

I'm kinda betting you wouldn't. Why would a store for example be any different than the school in my analogy? Sure, there's no studies of vaping being harmful as second hand vapor, but it's seen as pretty inconciderate and inappropriate by many others.

Also: How long would you think the school authorities would take to kick you out of the sais school?

I'm also betting that it wouldn't take much time at all.

 

[braveminion]

I wouldn't vape where there are no vaping signs. I never said I would.

I'm highly allergic to nuts, in my very personal opinion, it is inconsiderate for people to walk around openly eating nut products in public places. However my opinion should not be able to and cannot dictate what people actually do with their lives.

Just because 10000 people think it's inappropriate or inconsiderate, doesn't make it right.

I will obey all signs that apply to me and my behaviour as a vaper, no smoking signs have nothing to do with me.


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[ppeeble]

My 2c;
Vaping at 50w in an office is ridiculous and is going to annoy someone. Guaranteed.
A short story;
I have always been an advocate of vaping and have been using my e-cig in my local pub for years without any issues. Last week a young vaper came into the pub and starting using a rig that fogged up the whole pub in about 20 minutes. There were a lot of comments about the smell (smelt like sweet banana) but no action was taken by the owners because the young chap left after an hour....
For me that is the beginning of the end for vaping in that pub. Next time it happens vaping will be banned in those premises. Guaranteed.
For years i have been stating that vaping should be encouraged everywhere and to hell with those who complain. Now though, after witnessing that young whipper-snapper deliberately making it uncomfortable for everyone (vapers and smokers/non smokers) i am left in a very awkward place..

 

[Lova]

I wouldn't vape where there are no vaping signs. I never said I would.

I'm highly allergic to nuts, in my very personal opinion, it is inconsiderate for people to walk around openly eating nut products in public places. However my opinion should not be able to and cannot dictate what people actually do with their lives.

Just because 10000 people think it's inappropriate or inconsiderate, doesn't make it right.

I will obey all signs that apply to me and my behaviour as a vaper, no smoking signs have nothing to do with me.


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Might want to re-read my analogy as I said "Where there are _no_ "No Vaping" signs..."

But I'm not gonna argue about that logic. I personally wouldn't vape anywhere where there are "No Smoking" signs, especially schools, but if I understand your posts correctly, you would vape in a school where there are only "No Smoking" signs, and I'm not going to tell you to stop. All I'm saying that I won't be upset if and when a person gets booted out of a school/store or whatever due to vaping inside

 

[Lova]

My 2c;
Vaping at 50w in an office is ridiculous and is going to annoy someone. Guaranteed.
A short story;
I have always been an advocate of vaping and have been using my e-cig in my local pub for years without any issues. Last week a young vaper came into the pub and starting using a rig that fogged up the whole pub in about 20 minutes. There were a lot of comments about the smell (smelt like sweet banana) but no action was taken by the owners because the young chap left after an hour....
For me that is the beginning of the end for vaping in that pub. Next time it happens vaping will be banned in those premises. Guaranteed.
For years i have been stating that vaping should be encouraged everywhere and to hell with those who complain. Now though, after witnessing that young whipper-snapper deliberately making it uncomfortable for everyone (vapers and smokers/non smokers) i am left in a very awkward place..

Precisely, that's what I've been trying to say all the time. Vaping high wattages and even with something like eGo-pen ecig or like that in some place without any "No Vaping" signs will get vaping banned in those places. And I do not understand people who still insist that it's their "priviledge" to vape wherever there are only "No Smoking" signs.

Be happy and abuse that priviledge without any common sense and respect for others and you will be stripped of it eventually. Might not happen in 5 mins, might not happen in a day, but eventually it will be taken away from you.

 

[englishmick]

I'll just say this.

My wife quit smoking a little before I did. She used Chantix for a few days, then stopped taking it and got an Ego. She vaped for a while and after around 6 months she started tapering down to where now she only picks it up a couple of times a week when she gets stressed. Using her favorite strawberry flavor. It stops her thinking about cigarettes. So she has no problem with me vaping.

But the aroma of a couple of my favorite juices was really unpleasant to her. Particularly coffee flavors. She said they made her gag. She has no problem with fruits flavors or tobacco or most others. So I stopped using the handful that were unpleasant to her.

Our granddaughter doesn't want her baby to inhale vapor. When she comes round I go outside to vape.

I certainly wasn't going to give them a lecture about how vape clouds contain no more bad stuff than ordinary human breath, or any crap like that.

I have to believe that if some vape aromas are offensive and disturbing to my wife then the same is true for other people out there. Should I be thinking that I have a responsibility to respect my wife's feelings but I don't have to care about other people? That's not my way of going about life. So I don't impose the output of my vaping on other people.

We all have to make this kind of decision every day, and not just about vaping. Everyone makes their own decisions. There's no right or wrong here, just how we choose to live.

 

[braveminion]

I'll just say this.

My wife quit smoking a little before I did. She used Chantix for a few days, then stopped taking it and got an Ego. She vaped for a while and after around 6 months she started tapering down to where now she only picks it up a couple of times a week when she gets stressed. Using her favorite strawberry flavor. It stops her thinking about cigarettes. So she has no problem with me vaping.

But the aroma of a couple of my favorite juices was really unpleasant to her. Particularly coffee flavors. She said they made her gag. She has no problem with fruits flavors or tobacco or most others. So I stopped using the handful that were unpleasant to her.

Our granddaughter doesn't want her baby to inhale vapor. When she comes round I go outside to vape.

I certainly wasn't going to give them a lecture about how vape clouds contain no more bad stuff than ordinary human breath, or any crap like that.

I have to believe that if some vape aromas are offensive and disturbing to my wife then the same is true for other people out there. Should I be thinking that I have a responsibility to respect my wife's feelings but I don't have to care about other people? That's not my way of going about life. So I don't impose the output of my vaping on other people.

We all have to make this kind of decision every day, and not just about vaping. Everyone makes their own decisions. There's no right or wrong here, just how we choose to live.

You sound like a very considerate vaper

I too like to think I'm quite considerate. I certainly wouldn't vape my current set up with the huge clouds in a shop or restaurant etc.

In regards to some people disliking the smell, how does that differ to someone with bad body odour? I certainly don't like the smell of that but you don't get ' No people with body odour' signs appearing everywhere.

I'm all for common sense and consideration but it works both ways. I'd like to be left to live my life and make my own choices whenever the impact on other people is minimal.

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[TFL!]

You do Know that there are some cities, counties, states that declared that vaping is the same as smoking.

 

[braveminion]

That doesn't mean they are right.

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[nyiddle]

I remember a simpler time.

A time when this thread was just someone ranting about their difficulties at work.

A time when people offered suggestions about how OP might resolve his situation.

A time when people weren't needlessly arguing every trite point despite (for the most part) literally believing the exact same things.

Ahhh, nostalgia.

 

[Jman8]

<
Valid points. I've never been against vaping in the public, but due to some social media posts of people blowing clouds in walmart etc. has kinda flipped a switch in me, and I apologize for that. I'm also not trying to make things seem like it's inappropriate to vape outdoors etc, but as I said later on, that I live in Finland, where you most likely would get kicked out of a store for vaping inside, which is why I said I feel like it's just better to stay home. It could be that I'm influenced by ANTZ, but don't you see how acting like most of social media vapers who blow clouds wherever is harming the whole e-cig/vaping industry? Common sense is quite handy to own, which is why I'm against everyone who says vaping is allowed where there is no "No Vaping" signs, even if it goes against their own ideology.

If I come from perspective of (my own version of) ANTZ ideology, then I do see how social media vapers are harming vaping culture/industry. Even at that level, I'd have a debate on what that actual harm is and how normal is that really.

As I don't come from that perspective here on vaping forum or most of the time in my life, then I think it foolish to promote it as even possibly harming vaping culture/industry. I think a rationale / sensible defense can be presented in those cases that doesn't equal denial. I think as long as that is being presented/discussed with open mind, then those actual cases where lines are actually being crossed would be easier to present and discuss. But a pic of a person blowing huge cloud indoors doesn't strike me as inherently disrespectful. And that is where I would wish to enter the debate with equal force to counter propaganda suggesting it is harmful (to people or) to industry/vape culture. I think it really ought to be treated by vape culture as something to appreciate/celebrate. Obviously, there would be exceptions to the rule, but feel I've already alluded to those exceptions in this paragraph.

Is it appropriate to vape in places where there's only "No Smoking" signs? No. And that's my whole point.

I would say something along lines of "absolutely yes." I imagine most to all hospitals today would have no smoking signs. I'm yet to visit a hospital that I would say it is inappropriate to vape in all locations there. I'd even debate the no smoking thing if I were among people who were open to that sort of discussion, but realize as dual user myself that in most places in today's hospitals it would be either challenging to get away with it, or likely inappropriate. But surely not all places.

Is it appropriate to vape in places where there's no signs at all? Yes.

While we agree on this, because of what you wrote before, I'm wanting to further understand on what makes for appropriate or inappropriate for you. Like you say if I vaped in store in Finland, I'd be kicked out, because it is inappropriate to vape there. There are places in the U.S. where I understand that if I were somehow to be caught vaping there, I'd likely be asked to leave. With that said, I'm fairly convinced that I could vape indoors in Finland in many locations, not get caught and not be disrespectful to any other persons in that establishment. Thus this notion of "(not) appropriate" strikes me as another way of simply saying, 'it is inherently disrespectful to vape there." That's where I'm entering the debate with gusto.

Is it appropriate to vape in stores for example? No, and that will be my idea until I die.

Okay. Doesn't sway my opinion a bit. My opinion chooses to be backed up by science of today and how I understand public courtesy and respect.

We need more media attention on things that are true, like what e-liquid contains, proper studies on dangers of vaping and so forth. We do _not_ need media attention on people vaping in stores where there are no "No Vaping" signs and acting like they know better. Media will always be tainted as long as there's people who believe vaping is harmful and that is exactly why we need to fight the whole ideology of "I'm a vaper, I'm allowed to whatever I want if there's no signs telling me not to, in which case I will complain on an online forum about it."

IMO, we need more people in vaping community advocating for vaping everywhere with respect. The so called obnoxious vaper isn't doing an actual disservice to vaping, but in reality is doing a disservice to civilized humans. Yeah, it has a little to do with public vaping, but clearly before vaping came along, people were at times disrespectful to each other in public. My previous post harped on idea of breathing in public without a mouth filter. We could, rather easily, live in a world culture where things are spun for many to think it is inherently disrespectful to breath in public without a filter over your mouth. The counter position to that hypothetical is, IMO, no different than what vaping faces today. And the so called 'obnoxious' people there would be those who yawn or sneeze or things of that nature without a filter over their mouth. Just writing all this greatly humors me, until I realize we might one day be there actually debating with others as to why it is inherently wrong to do these things in public.

Let's do an analogy:

Which post do you think will gain/has gained more media attention:

A: Someone posts themselves vaping in a store and gets 100 000 likes on the picture?

B: Someone posts actual studies about the real hazards of vaping and gets 10 likes on the post?

Which one of those will the mainstream media and news groups see first and use it to base yet another "How vaping is harmful" news story? I'm pretty sure most if not all say it's the one with 100 000 likes.

This is the reason why I'm against people vaping in stores and elsewhere where smoking isn't allowed, it's because social media and other routes can and will use some of those stories to fight against vaping in general.

To answer your question, the one with more social media likes is far more likely to have more media attention. But the way you are framing it shows the other could just as likely be the one that gets more media attention, because it too could get 100,000 likes from ANTZ influenced culture, that is just waiting for other shoe to drop when it comes to cons for vaping.

What I feel you are neglecting in this discussion is that the counter position to vaping indoors in public is partially (to mostly) based on idea that vaping around anyone presents a real life scenario of how vaping is allegedly harmful to others, namely non-vapers. It's also partially the idea that it is bothersome/annoying to some people.

Let's look back at OP of this thread as pertinent example of the point I am making:

All of a sudden she acts like she's being tear gassed the minute she steps into the building and starts making choking noises like a freakin cat trying to cough up a hair ball the size of a bowling ball. She immediately starts spraying perfume or lysol like she's trying to cover up the smell of death in the office. Now, I am not chucking clouds in here by any means and I am not sitting in a cloudy desk at all, prob take a tute every 30 min or so. She even makes it a point to let every one know that her chest is hurting and she can't stand the smell and anytime she walks by my office she holds her nose like she's jumping into the ocean. FYI I usually have some sort of coffee, cereal, or berry juice going.

IMO, this is clearly the annoying factor mixed with the idea that this person is self convinced they are being harmed by exhaled vapor. Without the perceived harm factor, I believe the bothersome factor would go down many notches. So, what I am getting across is that the media attention that seeks to highlight vaper enjoying vape indoors is trying to stress how it could plausibly be harmful to others. This isn't a maybe thing, it is a for sure thing, and that is why it is getting attention. The bothersome aspect is far easier to deal with. That doesn't mean all vapers everywhere will magically become well respectable citizens in public. Could eliminate vaping in public on the planet and that still won't be the case. Thus common sense tells anyone who's been on this planet for more than a day that if you are in a public situation, be prepared to have your sense of propriety challenged if not greatly offended.

If anything the idea that there are (allegedly) obnoxious vapers roaming the planet seeking to be inherently / intentionally disrespectful to all other persons in public makes me want to advocate even stronger for vape everywhere with respect. And it surely doesn't make me want to take the puritan approach of "let's just ban vaping in public places, as if that will be a (reasonable) answer." I find that so far removed from 'common sense' that I choose to write posts on this that don't back down from position I'm advocating for and that tackle the other side's position with as much wording and understanding of that position as I think is warranted for fair debating.

 

[Jman8]

Let's make another analogy:

Would you vape in a school where there's no "No Vaping" signs during a class or even a break if you were a student there?

I'm kinda betting you wouldn't. Why would a store for example be any different than the school in my analogy? Sure, there's no studies of vaping being harmful as second hand vapor, but it's seen as pretty inconciderate and inappropriate by many others.

During a class, I very likely wouldn't vape. On break (indoors), yes for sure I would. I would intentionally disobey the "no vaping" signs in that case. I feel very confident that no one would even know that I vaped in that situation and even more confident that no one would be affected by my vaping on break in that location.

Also: How long would you think the school authorities would take to kick you out of the sais school?

Based on what I just wrote.... a very long time. Likely never.

I'm also betting that it wouldn't take much time at all.

I'm very interested in this wager.

 

[Jman8]

During a class, I very likely wouldn't vape. On break (indoors), yes for sure I would. I would intentionally disobey the "no vaping" signs in that case. I feel very confident that no one would even know that I vaped in that situation and even more confident that no one would be affected by my vaping on break in that location.

I also wish to be clear that if there were signs for the class that said "Vaping allowed" I'd still be unlikely to vape there. I like to stay consistent on the respect thing. I'd obviously be more likely if allowed than forbidden, but last time I was in a vape shop that was very foggy, I chose not to vape at all. My thought was if you can't figure out a way to ventilate the air in this room given the amount of people allowed in here at any particular time, I'd rather not be vaping in this situation. But very glad it is allowed in that place/situation.

In a vaping allowed situation, I may feel desire to take break from the vaping/vapers so I can go off and vape in location where I think respect would be practiced. Having us (vapers/smokers) congregate in a small room/location strikes me as the opposite of common sense. Having vapers who are ex-smokers vape in a tiny place where only smoking is allowed strikes me as idiocy.

 

[leftyandsparky]

I like to know what the hell black slaves comes to play here in this post unbelievable

 

[Plumes.91]

My mother has COPD. One day in the summer of 2014, she and I spent 5.5 hrs in her closet together, rearranging her clothes for easier wheelchair access. I vaped the whole time. She said how nice it was that I didn't have to run outside every 30 minutes, it would have taken TWICE as long. I agreed that it was very nice, thinking, no way I could have put up with her for twice as long.

There is no ventilation in a closet; I had to set up a fan to blow inwards just so I didn't bake to death in there -- no vents to provide AC, which doesn't bother her in the least, she wears a sweater when it's 80 degrees. But at no time was there a visible fog, nor any complaints from her about the vape. And as I said, she has COPD.

Andria

Welp, my mom has Histoplasmosis from living in a small house full of mold in Arizona for much of her youth.... And I can't even tootle-poof into a damn sock behind her head without her nostrils flaring up & her turning around to yell "I told you not to blow that damn vapor toward me! It's making me choke! I can't BREATH! I can't BREATH! DO YOU WANT ME TO CHOKE?? Use those damn things in a separate room from me! I CAN'T BREATH!" So I don't think everyone has the same tolerance to our vapor.