Great job zoiDman. I have stashed 5 "BGICOE" cartos somewhere, each containing 18mg. Four of them are still intact, and the other one, I haven't touched in six months. BTW what brand of cigarette would be comparable to vaping 36mg. Just curious.
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If you really could do that, within the context of nicotine delivery in e liquid vaping, then Diane Feinstein, Barb Boxer and their nanny state ilk have a place for you on their payroll, because so far even the anti e cig politicians have NOT been able to come up with one shred of credible evidence showing nicotine as being harmful. Just like Al Gores global warming "hockey stick" graph, all they have so far is trumped up junk science and scare tactic politician psychobabel.
It's Hard to Compare Smoking to Vaping mg-wise.
Because Cigarettes Nicotine mg is Rated as How Much Nicotine an Average person Absorbs into there Body. Whereas e-Liquids are Rated as the Total Nicotine in 1 Milliliter (mg/ml).
But I was Smoking a Pack a Day of American Spirits Yellow when I Switched.
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I am not asking for a study that proves nicotine is UNSAFE. Simply asking if anyone has a study showing nicotine is SAFE. Is there such a study? It's a simple question independent of politics ....
It IS safe within the context we're discussing, as in our preferred delivery method, vaping...
FAQ: Nicotine (tobaccoharmreduction.org)
I'm reasonably sure that Kristen can provide tons of data,
but there's already quite a bit of resource material linked in this thread well worth reading.
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Enitrely correct, nobody is vaping 265mg nicotine or drinking 866 cups of coffee/caffeinate liquids. At certain levels both of these things are toxic within a given intensity session.
Anyone who is of the "less is more" philosophy can drop their nic level if they wish.
I did that, as well as gave up coffee, not because I believe either are poisonous to me, but I had a sleep problem which has benefitted greatly by restricting my consumption of any and all stimulants.
I was looking for a "study" inside the link you provided, and found none. Just a bunch of opinions by someone who obviously believes the stuff is harmless. He/she even questions whether nicotine is addictive.... To each his own, but to stay on the safe side, I personally will continue to view nicotine as harmful until someone can show concrete evidence to the contrary..... Still waiting.
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I'm looking for those studies too: here's some really interesting stuff I found. I don't believe nicotine is safe or not habit forming (and these links don't claim that), but these studies are startling to me.
It's a compelling idea : the presence of monoamine oxidases inhibitors (naturally occurring ) in tobacco, ALONG WITH nicotine seem to create a MUCH stronger habit.
The Wikipedia page at the end of these links has lots of info on MAOIs -- think pharmaceutical anti-depressants ( anyone ever take Wellbutrin/Zyban to quit analogs? ) I highly recommend slogging through the technical parts to get an idea of some of the brain chemistry around tobacco withdrawal. Fascinating stuff.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0091305703002235
Monoamine oxidase inhibition dramatically increas... [J Neurosci. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0024320506004619
I got to all of these through : Monoamine oxidase inhibitor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Thanks you that is very nice of you to share and of the person who advised you. I am at 24 and really want to drop it...I just ordered some 18 and would keep in mind
I will read those links, but I can already confirm that anti-depressants help some people quit smoking. I did it 15 years ago with the help of Zyban and a few days of using nicotine patches. It lasted nearly nine years before the habit kicked in again. But I've also seen people show adverse reaction to Zyban .... drastic ones... What makes cigarettes so addicting is the Amonnia they add to the tobacco. It reportedly makes the nicotine much easier to absorb into the system. Thanks for the links, very helpful.
I started with 18mg and at first it seems a little harsh but I've gotten used to it after 2 weeks. Loved the throat hit, which feels like a real cig. I guess I still needed that since I just recently quit smoking - a 10 year habit. I tried 6mg and it's just not cutting it for me. I have the 18mg and 6mg side by side and I always reach out to the 18mg.
Ordered some 12mg juice and I'll see how that works out...
Ordered some 12mg juice and I'll see how that works out...
Researchers don't look to "prove safety," they look for health risks. In the absence of significant risks, they are generally regarded as "safe" for the majority of the population. (Nothing is ever safe for 100% of the population.)
For example, where are the studies showing eggplants are safe? (Eggplants also contain nicotine, by the way.)
But, if you trust the FDA, there are a lot of nicotine products generally regarded as safe on the market. I'm sure GlaxoSmithKline and Johnson & Johnson submitted studies showing their nicotine products were "safe" (or at least not a health risk), but I don't know if we can access them. And the FDA just released a statement that those products were also safe to use long-term.
As far as inhaling nicotine into the lungs, nearly all of the research has been based on delivery via smoke. However, researchers have almost universally accepted that it is not the nicotine in the smoke causing the diseases, but the other chemicals, metals and carcinogens. Some studies show nicotine promotes tumor growth, but does not create tumors by itself. Other studies suggest that such growth is caused when nicotine is delivered with other components in smoke, but does not seem to have the same effect when delivered via NRT (ie. smoke-free nicotine).
Obviously, nicotine is unsafe for people with heart disease or tumors, the same way peanut butter is unsafe for those with peanut allergies. However, that doesn't mean it is also unsafe for everyone else.
There we go again, this time comparing nicotine with peanut butter and eggplants. Give me a break.... I take it then, that you have no studies to show that nicotine is safe? As for the FDA, isn't that the same agency that approved several drugs that killed thousands of people - the same drugs that they later banned? I forget the names, but I am sure you know which drugs they are.
BTW Don't know how this thread got hijacked into a discussion about nicotine safety. The title clearly states how to reduce your intake.
BTW Don't know how this thread got hijacked into a discussion about nicotine safety. The title clearly states how to reduce your intake.
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I'm quoting the original here for reference.
I know I had some part in the hijack -- it's hard not to talk about the mechanisms...
.........
I share part of the blame, having actively participated in the debate myself... But on second thought, now that we have started, I do not want to discourage anyone from finishing their thoughts. Please feel free to do so if you like.
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Ok now I'm quite sure now Exchaner, that you are totally unable to have any rational thought patterns. You really read what she wrote and then respond with that completely disconnected thought process. Yeah, I'll give you a break, it's not worth trying to have any conversation on this with you because obviously you are completely closed minded.
Then you comment that you feel your thread was hijacked. Haaaaaaaaaaaaa
Well buddy, you are the one who turned this into a giant heaping pile when you accused me of being irresponsible when I advised someone that nicotine in itself may even be less dangerous than caffiene. And might I remind you that you are the one who dragged your thread through a couple pages of arguement over your glarring math mistakes while several folks pointed out your problem.
The exact point of so called hijacking....
I was trying to speak to someone who had expressed worries about his nic intake by vape vs by cigs, and trying to encourage he not go back to cigs pointing out the dangers of smoke vs the relative harmlessness of nicotine in vaping. But...you then took it into a pissing match instead of being able to rationalize it in the context being used. You have proven yourself unable to comprehend any form of rational thought now by responding that way to her post.
I am done here, although even though you started the thread, there are the participants & readers who deserve a more open minded discussion regarding whether or not nicotine in vaping vs all the known poisons in cigarette smoke. Nicotine is NOT one of them.
tia, hth, happy vaping
Fogging, Thank you for the compliments. Nicotine to some people is like religion. They believe in it without question, and don't want to hear anything to the contrary. As for me, like I said before, until someone proves to me that nicotine is safe, I will treat it as a poison that it is, and minimize my consumption. I feel a lot better on days when I vape less, and that by itself is all the proof that I need. One last point, I still say it is a mistake, and not very responsible to compare nicotine with caffeine. One goes through your digestive system, and the other through your lungs. Kristin dismissed the emphysema study I posted on that very same basis. To paraphrase her remarks, she said you can not compare nicotine injected through a cell with nicotine inhaled through the lung ..... That is precisely my basis for considering Caffeine different from Nic. The delivery systems are different, not to mention their toxicity. Happy vaping. And oh, you do not have to rub it in so much regarding my math. If I learned anything from you, is that my math was off by three decimal points. I do appreciate you setting me right.
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When you talk about caffeine, are you really talking about caffeine in drinks? As in, diluted caffeine?
For many (not all) caffeine is a pretty safe stimulant for regular consumption (at least when diluted). Straight caffeine, if not treated with the respect of a poison, can kill you. [*Do a search for Michael Lee Bedford to see what straight caffeine can do*] As with most things, common sense should dictate that the dose makes the poison. You get that, right? A mL of eliquid is not the same as a mL of pure nicotine, just as 2 spoonfuls of coffee grounds is not the same as two spoonfuls of straight caffeine.
Look, I think I understand where you are coming from, but it would seem that the others you think believe in nicotine like a "religion" may just be opposing those that treat nicotine as a bogeyman.
And as far as you saying:
You don't really mean that if we could somehow "prove" to you that nicotine is safe then you would be all for consuming more?! That makes no sense if you don't feel good when taking it. Hell, my wife gets sick from too much caffeine which is exactly why she does not consume it. She doesn't care how "safe" it is or isn't, all she needs to know is how it makes her feel.
And
Plenty of vapers don't even inhale into their lungs because it gets absorbed, also, via the lining of the mouth. It can be absorbed through various routes, not just lungs or mouth even. I don't think the nicotine patch is absorbed via lungs.
A link to plenty of studies on nicotine, though there is still more to be compiled: Nicotine - Scientific Review on Usage, Dosage, Side Effects | Examine.com (Note: in that link there is some opinions of the research compiled on the supplement, but you can scroll down the page to look at the research itself if you care to).
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