A Little Paranoid

[xEtherized]

Everyday I like to inform coworkers and friends who smoke cigs about the benefits of vaping and how it is the healthier choice.

But today, I ran into one of my Filipino coworkers and tried to convince him to start vaping.

He then replied to me saying "nah man that's chemicals."

I argued back with a laugh, "chemicals?!? Haha it's just vegetable glycerol and Propalyn glycol which people with asthma use all the time! There are no chemicals man! Atleast not any harmful ones."

He replied with a serious face,"they banned it in then Philippines, I was just there in March. They found really harmful chemicals that react from the coil burning the liquid."

I didn't reply I simply stood there and thought about it, and it kind of made sense. Kanthal was never meant to be in anyway consumed. And whatever we are consuming (PG VG) is being burnt by that Kanthal.

Does anyone have any knowledge as to what is going on in the Philippines with vaping? Or about the hazards of Kanthal wire?

 

[MissAmerican]

That's a good question about the kanthal wire, I haven't thought of that aspect of it before. No matter what though it couldn't be worse than inhaling the stuff in cigs. Sorry I have no answers but I too am now interested in finding out.

 

[RosaJ]

They outright banned ecigs because they say it's worse than cigarettes. Nothing to do with Kanthal wire. They rather have people smoking.

 

[xEtherized]

That's a good question about the kanthal wire, I haven't thought of that aspect of it before. No matter what though it couldn't be worse than inhaling the stuff in cigs. Sorry I have no answers but I too am now interested in finding out.

I gave him that same argument too about how it can't be any worse than smoking cigs. But then he brought up how tobacco is "natural" where vapes are chemical. I thought that was interesting too.

They outright banned ecigs because they say it's worse than cigarettes. Nothing to do with Kanthal wire. They rather have people smoking.

So they can just outright ban something without any research to back it up? Did they even state why it's worse?

 

[RosaJ]

I gave him that same argument too about how it can't be any worse than smoking cigs. But then he brought up how tobacco is "natural" where vapes are chemical. I thought that was interesting too.


So they can just outright ban something without any research to back it up? Did they even state why it's worse?

Yep. From what I gleaned from the article I read, they just stated that ecigs contained more chemicals than cigarettes, that's it. No research, no nothin'. It's the same lies that the ANTZ here are spreading. They do it because they're in power and they're allowed to get away with it.

 

[xEtherized]

Yep. From what I gleaned from the article I read, they just stated that ecigs contained more chemicals than cigarettes, that's it. No research, no nothin'. It's the same lies that the ANTZ here are spreading. They do it because they're in power and they're allowed to get away with it.

Well with no research done on e-Cigs I guess we can't really say it's safe either. But e-Cigs are in fact a whole nother ball game as its dealing with batteries, coils, and super high temperatures. As its new we're not going to know any long term effects until 20 years from now.

But I'm sure we've all tasted that burned Kanthal taste when our wicks are dry. There HAS to be something toxic about that.

 

[BuGlen]

Well with no research done on e-Cigs I guess we can't really say it's safe either. But e-Cigs are in fact a whole nother ball game as its dealing with batteries, coils, and super high temperatures. As its new we're not going to know any long term effects until 20 years from now.

But I'm sure we've all tasted that burned Kanthal taste when our wicks are dry. There HAS to be something toxic about that.

Except that there has been research on e-cigs and more research is being conducted as we speak. Visit CASAA.org: Learn About Electronic Cigarettes to read up on the current state of research on the subject.

 

[xEtherized]

Except that there has been research on e-cigs and more research is being conducted as we speak. Visit CASAA.org: Learn About Electronic Cigarettes to read up on the current state of research on the subject.

Yeah well they never address the mech mod users. They don't address Kanthal poisoning or the dangers of subohm builds.

 

[BuGlen]

Yeah well they never address the mech mod users. They don't address Kanthal poisoning or the dangers of subohm builds.

Point taken. However, if you look at all of the household applications in which Kanthal wire is used, you might be able to draw some comfort in it's relative safety: Applications for Kanthal products

 

[xEtherized]

Point taken. However, if you look at all of the household applications in which Kanthal wire is used, you might be able to draw some comfort in it's relative safety: Applications for Kanthal products

Thanks for your input and information Glen.

 

[hanzo.esq]

...if you look at all of the household applications in which Kanthal wire is used, you might be able to draw some comfort in it's relative safety: Applications for Kanthal products

That was a great starting point. It made me work my internets. Kanthal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia says:

Kanthal is a trademark for a family of iron-chromium-aluminium (FeCrAl) alloys used in a wide range of resistance and high-temperature applications... Kanthal FeCrAl alloy forms a protective layer of aluminum oxide.

Aluminium oxide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia says:

Aluminium oxide is responsible for the resistance of metallic aluminium to weathering. Metallic aluminium is very reactive with atmospheric oxygen, and a thin passivation layer of aluminium oxide (4 nm thickness) forms on any exposed aluminium surface... protect[ing] the metal from further oxidation.
Aluminium oxide was taken off the United States Environmental Protection Agency's chemicals lists in 1988. Aluminium oxide is on EPA's Toxics Release Inventory list if it is a fibrous form.

A quick google search of "Aluminium oxide toxicity" revealed similar statements to Aluminum oxide (UK PID)

- Significant toxicity has been reported only following chronic occupational inhalation.
- Aluminium contact sensitivity has been described but is extremely rare.
- Chronic occupational exposure causes conjunctivitis, pharyngitis, and nasal irritation. Occupational asthma has been reported in aluminium smelter workers but these individuals are exposed to several other potential allergens (including fluorides and sulphur dioxide).
- There is evidence from controlled studies among aluminium workers that chronic aluminium oxide exposure with an increased body aluminium burden may be associated with neurocognitive dysfunction but not increased mortality.

Punchline: Doesn't look like Kanthal is toxic, but we can't be sure. The test subjects most likely to show adverse effects are also exposed to other known toxins.

Hanzo.

 

[xEtherized]

Thank you for that @hanzo.esq very informative indeed. So we know that Kanthal is even a tad toxic just not sure of its potential. The studies that were done were on workers who worked around Kanthal, where as vapers specifically inhale large amounts directly to the lungs. Once again, still unsure of the hazards but now we know there is potential.

 

[nopatch]

Pg,Vg and flavorings aren't chemicals, apparently and One wonders what category they come under.

 

[AgentAnia]

From about.com:

Question: What Is a Chemical?

Answer: Short answer: Everything is a chemical. Longer answer: Chemistry is the study of matter and its interactions with other matter. Anything made of matter is therefore a chemical. Any liquid, solid, gas. Any pure substance; any mixture. Water is a chemical. Technically speaking, so is a chunk of your computer. A chemical can often be broken down into components, as is true with your computer. However, people generally use the term 'chemical' to refer to a substance that appears homogeneous or the same throughout its structure.

It's been known for decades that the main danger from cigarettes comes from the hundreds of non-tobacco chemicals added during the manufacturing process and the chemicals created when tobacco is burned. The chemicals resulting from the vaporization of the 4 e-juice ingredients are in such small amounts as to be insignificant. (And btw, temperature achieved to vaporize e-juice is ca. 200 degrees, hardly super-hot.)

Regarding kanthal, about which I know mostly nothing, is that what's used in the heating element in my car's cigarette lighter, or the battery-operated electronic cigarette lighter I used for more than 20 years? If so, it can't be that dangerous because I'm still here...

 

[nopatch]

Some things never change. Cigarettes have hundreds of chemicals(That is pure B.s., btw. That list was permitted chemicals.Cigarettes would taste awful if manufacturers add all those chemicals at the max permissible dosage ).

Tobacco doesn't cause cancer (Forget about tsna and polonium stuff). Portable Asthma inhalers have PG(Yet to find one).

And then you have some inspired testing by some flavor supplier (That protocol by FA would never be published in any scientific journal.The same protocol repeated by some cardiac doctor/assistant .)

And then you have nano metal particles(Practically Absent in cigarette smoke) health effects of inhaling them is not completely known at ecig discharge quantities.

Nothing is safe when they are inhaled in to lungs save pure Air (Not even pure oxygen) and some carbon dioxide(Co2 is a major component of cigarette smoke , besides Air). Moderation is the Key.

Yes, Cigarette smoke has Far less chemicals than ecig vapor .

That the eliquid ingredients are NOn-toxic(At typically used levels) is a nobrainer.When the concern is about inhaling them on a continuous basis for long periods of time other issues like lung tissue elasticity,prologed irritation comes in to play.

 

[danny4x4]

Everyday I like to inform coworkers and friends who smoke cigs about the benefits of vaping and how it is the healthier choice.

Sorry OP, but maybe your co-workers are tired of your informing/preaching to them? Let's not get on our high horses and preach to smokers about the benefits of vaping. There are NO benefits to vaping. It is "healthier" than smoking (as far as we know right now), but we are still inhaling chemicals, albeit safer than those found in cigarettes.

Maybe it's better to provide information when they ask for it? No offence meant.
Peace

 

[danny4x4]

Sorry, double post

 

[Rapture]

Everyday I like to inform coworkers and friends who smoke cigs about the benefits of vaping and how it is the healthier choice.

But today, I ran into one of my Filipino coworkers and tried to convince him to start vaping.

He then replied to me saying "nah man that's chemicals."

I argued back with a laugh, "chemicals?!? Haha it's just vegetable glycerol and Propalyn glycol which people with asthma use all the time! There are no chemicals man! Atleast not any harmful ones."

He replied with a serious face,"they banned it in then Philippines, I was just there in March. They found really harmful chemicals that react from the coil burning the liquid."

I didn't reply I simply stood there and thought about it, and it kind of made sense. Kanthal was never meant to be in anyway consumed. And whatever we are consuming (PG VG) is being burnt by that Kanthal.

Does anyone have any knowledge as to what is going on in the Philippines with vaping? Or about the hazards of Kanthal wire?

ive been vape free, tobacco free, kanthal wire free, ss mesh free, and nicotine free for 5 days now. Its hard it really is. I may go back to vaping and I may not. All I can say is that there is no safe way in inhale nicotine.

I am not worried about the e-juice at all. I know that nicotine has no ill health effects. Im not worried about PG used in the medical field.

I believe that the main problem with e-cigs are that there is no safe way to heat up the juice without some kind of unhealthy side effect. In order to vaporize e-juice you need to have very strong corrosion resistance materials such as silica. stainless steel, nickel, chromium.

Kanthal wire has nickel and chromium in it. chromium and nickel are known carcinogens. Just because toasters and hair dryers have resistance wire in them doesnt make it safe to vape off of everyday all day long.

stainless steel wicks are a whole different story. just because we cook with stainless steel doesnt make it ok to vape from. normal cooking is done from 0 - 500 degrees Fahrenheit. i know that the kanthal wire coils are resistant up to 2,500 f. Do some research on hexavalent chromium 6 and tell me if you still feel good vaping off of stainless steel mesh. i dont even feel safe vaping off of the kanthal wire alone since it is made from good amounts of chromium and nickel.

I used to love to vape. I wish I still could enjoy it without the paranoid worries.

for the same reason I quit smoking is the same reason i quit vaping. because I cannot enjoy a smoke or a vape without worrying about the ill health effects.

 

[Rapture]

Point taken. However, if you look at all of the household applications in which Kanthal wire is used, you might be able to draw some comfort in it's relative safety: Applications for Kanthal products

I wish i could say that makes me feel better but it simply does not. Using kanthal in a toaster once a day and vaping off of it at 2000 degrees f all day on a daily basis are 2 completely different things. I dont think kanthal was ever intended as a heater for vapor to be inhaled

 

[Izan]

Where did you get the idea that water boils at 2000 degrees? On earth, water changes state at a much lower temperature.
How is the e juice reaching 2000 degree temperatures without changing state?

thank you for your time.
I

OP.
Follow the money. Most "things" are banned because they are not taxed or they compete with a taxed item.
Greed is usually the prime motivator in prohibition.