A little PG/VG Purity Confusion..

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mjradik

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and where's Roly?
I bet his ears are itching :)

Yea, where is rolly? It was his 'wording' in the sticky post that got me second guessing the PG I'm/We are using.

At least we didn't bring up HUMCO Glycerin,

Yet

Yea, HUMCO Glycerin is USP, so I should vape it right? lol.. I'll ignore that fact that its for external use and not internal use. Like someone earlier in this thread said, if pure hydrocloric acid is labeled USP, then it is ok to vape? lol...
 

Rocketman

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Hope I don't get another infarction for stirring up the status-quo :)


BTW: since this is a month old issue,
the ECF search engine must not be working.
I can't find Jatropha anywhere else in the forum.
Maybe none of our Glycerin comes from contaminated Bio-Diesel Glycerin.
Whew, I was worried.
 
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Hoosier

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Whats so funny? The back and forth between Rocketman and TTK? I think the main question about clearing up the confusing between Pharma Grade and Food grade is valid, and so is the Jatropha Plant issue in VG.

I was working a project in the field and needed mortar sand. Since I was in the "engineering" department, I could not order said sand, but had to have a purchasing manager order it. I told him that I needed mortar sand, NOT construction sand, but play sand would work. (Play sand is clean and germ free, mortar sand is clean, construction sand is sand and some dirt, so it is like USP=Play, Mortar=Food Grade, Const=Dog Food Grade.) I arrive at the site and there is no sand, so I call the purchasing manager up and ask what the heck is up. He tells me that he ordered play sand, but the label said it was play sand, and could be used in construction, so he sent it back.

Then I had to explain this to the contractor...

How is that not funny?

Pharma grade=USP. Once it is pharma grade, it can be used in human food, dog food, rat food, cow treatments, or whatever. So the round and round is amusing to me.

I'm not sure the Jatropha plant bit is a huge concern in North America's plants, but there seems to be pretty scant information on what the toxicity level is, how to test for it, who tests for it. I couldn't even find where it has ever been detected in this part of the country. Yes, it is something to look out for as the FDA said. (The FDA has also been known to say that smoking cigarettes is safer than vaping, so believing everything from them would not be the wisest course.)
 

mjradik

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I was working a project in the field and needed mortar sand. Since I was in the "engineering" department, I could not order said sand, but had to have a purchasing manager order it. I told him that I needed mortar sand, NOT construction sand, but play sand would work. (Play sand is clean and germ free, mortar sand is clean, construction sand is sand and some dirt, so it is like USP=Play, Mortar=Food Grade, Const=Dog Food Grade.) I arrive at the site and there is no sand, so I call the purchasing manager up and ask what the heck is up. He tells me that he ordered play sand, but the label said it was play sand, and could be used in construction, so he sent it back.

Then I had to explain this to the contractor...

How is that not funny?

Now that I know the background story, it is very funny, and I see the similarities.. lol...

Pharma grade=USP. Once it is pharma grade, it can be used in human food, dog food, rat food, cow treatments, or whatever. So the round and round is amusing to me.
Yes, I understand that now. Its just the way Rolly said 'Inhale only Pharma Grade and not Food Grade' and with everyone labeling thier USP PG as 'Food grade' for marketing pusposes was a little confusing.

I'm not sure the Jatropha plant bit is a huge concern in North America's plants, but there seems to be pretty scant information on what the toxicity level is, how to test for it, who tests for it. I couldn't even find where it has ever been detected in this part of the country. Yes, it is something to look out for as the FDA said. (The FDA has also been known to say that smoking cigarettes is safer than vaping, so believing everything from them would not be the wisest course.)

Yes you got to take what the FDA says with a grain of salt sometimes. I'm a firm believer thats thier approvals are $$ driven, not safty driven. LOL some FDA approved drugs have warning labels that take of 80% of the space on the overall label, LOL. I guess more info to come on the Jatropha plant in the comming months. Something to keep in the back of your mind.
 

Rocketman

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TTK,
all my info is third hand.
I do not have access to the current USP Glycerin monographs (previous ones available through Chinese web sites),
or the current test and purity requirements for Food Grade Glycerin per the current FCC monograph.


Aside from companies labeling their product to attract the most customers, what are the latest purity requirements to claim USP Grade, EP Grade, or Food Grade (or Dog Food Grade)? According to some experts, EP Grade is the BEST :)
 
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Cyrus Vap

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Yea, where is rolly? It was his 'wording' in the sticky post that got me second guessing the PG I'm/We are using.



Yea, HUMCO Glycerin is USP, so I should vape it right? lol.. I'll ignore that fact that its for external use and not internal use. Like someone earlier in this thread said, if pure hydrocloric acid is labeled USP, then it is ok to vape? lol...

Hmmmmm. What?
 

Cyrus Vap

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I actually did in a sense. A while back I posted about my confusion with Rolys thread and recall being met with a wall of crickets.

Thought Id come in here and spare someone the confusion I was feeling at the time

Instead a found a great Hoosier story flanked on both sides with a pile of horse crap, something that makes me feel at home

Dunno if your quip referred to my talent for angering
Donkeys or my insanity and desert heritage, but either way I like it :)
 
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SpringzVz

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They are 2 different grades by 2 different agencies. USP is pharmaceuticals and deals directly with those materials suitable for use in that setting. Food Grade is through the USDA or FDA and these products are suitable for ingestion and considered safe against bacteria or contaminents. Although they may contain items USP grade does not such as preservatives or additives.

In terms of the materials we are using USP and Food grade are very similar. (VG/PG)
 

Rocketman

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Not really funny.
some of the potential contaminants can make you severely ill in a matter of days.
That's what DEG did and why it's tested for now.

But, the Jatropha issue is probably just a heads up from the FDA.
I guess it is more likely to happen in other countries than here in the U.S.
All this hype about bio-diesel being a good thing, then a bad thing, then a good thing again, and glycerin waste now being an asset, and companies changing hands, making sales and distribution contracts.
And not being able to sort out glycerin manufacturer, from glycerin purifiers, to glycerin distributors adds to the confusion.

For most folks, VG is the highest % ingredient in their nic juice. Used to be PG.
It's like you are vaping 80% VG with 20% other stuff added.
 
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Cyrus Vap

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I love confusion. Allow me to share three conversations I had...

-Essential Depot.

"Is your glycerin pharmaceutical grade?"

"No sir, its food grade and USP."

"..."

-Essential Depot, a few weeks later

"Is your PG and VG USP?"

"Yes sir, the PG is DOW chemical, and they are both USP, pharmaceutical grade. They are marked food grade as well because they qualify for that also because they are USP."

-NOW foods

"What grade is your glycerin?"

"USP, pharmaceutical grade."

"Why is it labeled food grade and not USP?"

"Its pharmaceutical grade, which by definition means its also food grade and suitable for consumption."

"How about inhalation?"

"What?"

"Nevermind."


EDIT: And I just want to say, I am being sincere in saying that I don't see any problem with HUMCO, and if there is an inside joke, I'm missing it.

"External Use Only." Hmmm. Does anyone have a bottle of Glycerin, USP that says "For inhalation?"
 

Rocketman

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HUMCO is USP. It does not say VG but there have been at least 3 people on ECF have 'personally' talked with people at the Texarkana plant and they all were told the glycerin they receive is vegetable sourced. I THINK the Humco plant receives trucks/railcars and repackages it. They run a big contract packaging operation. But, I have never seen the sight. I do not know where their glycerin comes from.

Swan is USP and at least one person on ECF has talked to an employee at Swan (which plant?) and they said they have no requirement for vegetable only. It could be either (price based probably).

That seems to be the problem with suppliers that just 're-package'. Where does the incoming material come from?

I also made contact with NOW and got a different, but lengthy and quite believable explanation about their glycerin processing.
I did the same with Lorannoils.
I did not get an email response from Wiltons
I contacted Essential Depot by email and got a response from them also.



I contacted a few of the more recognized Kosher certifying organizations to inquire about certifications of a few brands.
 
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