A little PG/VG Purity Confusion..

[Cyrus Vap]

HUMCO is USP. It does not say VG but there have been at least 3 people on ECF have 'personally' talked with people at the Texarkana plant and they all were told the glycerin they receive is vegetable sourced. I THINK the Humco plant receives trucks/railcars and repackages it. They run a big contract packaging operation. But, I have never seen the sight. I do not know where their glycerin comes from.

Swan is USP and at least one person on ECF has talked to an employee at Swan (which plant?) and they said they have no requirement for vegetable only. It could be either (price based probably).

That seems to be the problem with suppliers that just 're-package'. Where does the incoming material come from?

I also made contact with NOW and got a different, but lengthy and quite believable explanation about their glycerin processing.
I did the same with Lorannoils.
I did not get an email response from Wiltons
I contacted Essential Depot by email and got a response from them also.



I contacted a few of the more recognized Kosher certifying organizations to inquire about certifications of a few brands.

so what do you make of this NOW business? And in light of what you said about food grade and USP being aligned, do you think food grade is now 'good enough?'

 

[Rocketman]

I have no idea.
Isn't that why VG and PG has been discussed for the past 3 or 4 years?
What are the process chemicals used? Could some of those remain?
Why does one brand of PG or VG taste different or cause different effects for some people?
My guess it's all in their minds. THey read something, then all of a sudden feel sick

If anyone takes a position someone else will counter it.
Some people will even make up things like preservatives being added to VG.
Where did that come from? That would change my mind for sure.

How about Methanol? Ethylene oxide? What else could be left behind from processing? Why do some processes reguire the glycerin to be neutralized to a pH of 7? What was it before?

I do not know.

The experts seem to avoid these discussions.
Ask an e-cig juice vendor. They should know.

 

[mjradik]

I love confusion. Allow me to share three conversations I had...

-Essential Depot.

"Is your glycerin pharmaceutical grade?"

"No sir, its food grade and USP."

"..."

-Essential Depot, a few weeks later

"Is your PG and VG USP?"

"Yes sir, the PG is DOW chemical, and they are both USP, pharmaceutical grade. They are marked food grade as well because they qualify for that also because they are USP."

-NOW foods

"What grade is your glycerin?"

"USP, pharmaceutical grade."

"Why is it labeled food grade and not USP?"

"Its pharmaceutical grade, which by definition means its also food grade and suitable for consumption."

"How about inhalation?"

"What?"

"Nevermind."

This post answers the original question this topic was all about perfectly!! Thanks Cyrus. Now if Royalgate could put a blurb about this on his sticky post to avoid any future confusion with new/future users.

Now to answer all the side topics.. LOL..

 

[Rocketman]

so what do you make of this NOW business? And in light of what you said about food grade and USP being aligned, do you think food grade is now 'good enough?'

Ha, trying to trick me into answering two questions?

 

[zoiDman]

If USP is supposed to be "Better" that Food Grade, why don't people just buy USP?

It sn't very hard to find. And it Isn't very Expensive.

CVS Pure Glycerin USP - CVS pharmacy

BTW - Check out the One Review there is for it. I wonder how many people who know nothing about e-Cigs say WTF when they read it.

 

[Rocketman]

Is that Humco or Swan?

 

[Cyrus Vap]

Ha, trying to trick me into answering two questions?

I think I 'know' you better than to expect you to answer a direct question at all, or an indirect question with anything but indirectness X 2

 

[zoiDman]

Is that Humco or Swan?

If your asking about the Picture/Link I posted, it's CVS Brand. CVS used to be Save-On for those of us who have been around for awhile.

I think I 'know' you better than to expect you to answer a direct question at all, or an indirect question with anything but indirectness X 2

I Heard That !

 

[SpringzVz]

http://www.usp.org/pdf/EN/referenceStandards/msds/1576708.pdf
http://www.usp.org/pdf/EN/referenceStandards/certificates/1576708-L0J287.pdf
http://www.usp.org/pdf/EN/referenceStandards/msds/1295607.pdf
Try all these out they are the usp breakdown of the liquids we are discussing.

 

[Rocketman]

I will give you a direct, first hand answer to one thing.

Back when I first started DIY I bought a bottle of HuXXX USP Glycerin from Wally World.
The 118ml bottle still has about 100ml in it and has an expiration date of 2008.
I mixed up a small batch, my first, and got sick to my stomach. The wife just didn't like the taste.
My DIY wasn't anything like store bought.
I bought a few bottles of Wiltons from my local Hobby lobby and tried again.
That batch was good.
I'm sure the bad reaction was all in my mind.
It would probably be better to add a few more data points with the HuXXX glycerin, but I'm skeerd to try it
That was the only bad reaction I've had to various brands of PG, VG, Nic base.

Not very scientific.
Now, I don't buy VG, PG, or NIC base unless I can first talk to a knowledgeable company representative and get a response in writing. A phone call gets you connected to whom even is free at the time

If you can't get a reasonable answer, go elsewhere. Don't buy something because Rocket says so.

 

[Rocketman]

http://www.usp.org/pdf/EN/referenceStandards/msds/1576708.pdf
http://www.usp.org/pdf/EN/referenceStandards/certificates/1576708-L0J287.pdf
http://www.usp.org/pdf/EN/referenceStandards/msds/1295607.pdf
Try all these out they are the usp breakdown of the liquids we are discussing.

2005 AND 2008 msds and a 1ml calibration sample available from USP

 

[Rocketman]

Guideline for DEG testing, that I believe is now incorporated in the current USP and Food Grade monograph
http://whoguideline.blogspot.com/2010/03/testing-of-glycerin-for-diethylene_19.html
and one company's answer
http://www.nowfoods.com/Quality/Quality-Notes/M097996.htm

 

[mwa102464]

I hapen to have the info sheets on the Proctor Gamble VG, 3 different types the Superol, the Star, and the Moon VG's if anyone needs any info here is just some of what I have. Just thought if I could help if anyone had any questions on the VG I may have the info to be able to help some

Superol Star Moon
Glycerol
(Bosart & Snoddy Table ) 99.7MIN 96 min 99.7MIN

Specific Gravity - ( 25 Deg c ) 1.2613 1.2517-1.2531 1.2613

Assay ( % Glycerine on
Anhydorous Basis ) 99.0-101.0 99.0-101.0 99.0-101.0

Moisture 0.3 max 4.0 max 0.3 max

Color Alpha ( PT-CO
HAZEN SCALE ) 10 Max 10max 20max

Residue on ignition 0.007 max 0.01 max 0.01 max

Chlorides, % ( As Chloride ) 0.001 max 0.0001 max 0.001 max

Sulfates 0.002 max 0.002 max 0.002 max

Heavy Metals ( as pb), ppm 1 max 1 max 1 max

Chlorinated Compounds
( as CI) % 0.003 max 0.003 max 0.003 max

Fatty Acids and Esters NMY 0.3ML NMT 0.3ML NMT 1ML

Identification A by IR: Glycerin passes test as Glycerin Passes test as Glycerin Passes test as Glycerin

Identification B by GC:
Limit of DEG & EG NMT 0.10% each DEG & EG NMT 0.10% each DEG & EG NMT 0.10% each DEG & EG

Identification C by GC:
Limit of Glycerin Passes test as Glycerin Passes test as Glycerin Passes test as Glycerin

Related Compounds NMT 0.1% Individual impurity NMT 0.1% Individual impurity NMT 0.1% Individual impurity
NMT 1.0% Total Impurities NMT 1.0 total Impurities NMT 1.0 total Impurities

Residual Solvents Compliant compliant compliant

Redily Carbonizable
Substances test FCC Pass Pass Pass

Identification Test A,
RI Nd 20* 1.470.475 --- ---

Sulphated Ash % 0.01 Max --- ---

Halogenated Compounds pass ( 35 ppm max ) ---- ---

Sugars pass ??? -- --

Aldehydes pass 10ppm max ) -- --

EP Esters 8.0 ml of 0.1 HCL, min -- --

EP Acidity 0.2 ml of 0.1 NaOH, mAX

CAS Number 56-81-5 56-81-5 56-81-5

Note all 3 of the P&G VG's have a max of = Limit of DEG & EG NMT 0.10% each DEG & EG NMT

 

[mwa102464]

I tried to post the info as per on the sheet,,, the numbers or info after each designation has 3 representations showing for each make the Superol, Star, and Moon %'s,,, there is very little difference between all 3

Also the MSDS is available on the P&G Website

 

[SpringzVz]

Here is usp Monograph for pg
http://www.usp.org/sites/default/files/usp_pdf/EN/USPNF/propyleneGlycol.pdf

 

[SpringzVz]

and more
USP Monographs: Propylene Glycol

 

[mwa102464]

I've used quite a few different VG's and to me there definitely not all the same, some seem thicker then others and some taste different then others.

 

[Rocketman]

and more
USP Monographs: Propylene Glycol

Sorry Springz, old one posted on a Chinese site

 

[zoiDman]

I've used quite a few different VG's and to me there definitely not all the same, some seem thicker then others and some taste different then others.

The CVS Brand USP Glycerin I use is 99.5% Anhydrous. It is Very Thick and has a Pleasant, Sweet Flavor.

The only other Glycerin I have seen was in a Health Food Store. It seemed Much Thinner. It didn't say it was USP and when I smelled it, it had a Weird Smell to it. I didn't buy it.

So I would say, Yes, not all VG is the same.

 

[Rocketman]

Don't have a good answer for the taste difference.
But the thickness difference (viscosity) is probably a small quantity of water absorbed during handling and packaging.
3 to 4% absorbed atmospheric moisture will change viscosity quite a bit.
A low density (weight/volume) may also indicate water content..
I think most vendors just use the advertised viscosity, not their own measurements.