A Mod can satisfy both freebase nic & Salt-Nic

[stols001]

I remain confused.... I'm not sure quite what you are getting at, honestly, so I will just wish you luck with your design.

I'm not entirely sure ceramic gives better flavor (and I've vape ceramic) but it may well do so for some users and some juice.

Just keep in mind this thing is highly subjective so you may well be designing for your tastes, but not every person's.

The takeaway I HOPE for anyone reading this thread is that nic salts can be used successfully IN ANYTHING as long as you tailor your nicotine levels to your coil and wattage. Some people LOVE the taste of nic salts or lack of throat hit (sometimes) but otherwise they are pretty similar to freebase (other than some reported claims that they are more stable over the long haul chemically compared to freebase). I do find a slightly different taste from them but again that is entirely subjective and etc.

Anna

 

[Coyote628]

I remain confused.... I'm not sure quite what you are getting at, honestly, so I will just wish you luck with your design.

I'm not entirely sure ceramic gives better flavor (and I've vape ceramic) but it may well do so for some users and some juice.

Just keep in mind this thing is highly subjective so you may well be designing for your tastes, but not every person's.

The takeaway I HOPE for anyone reading this thread is that nic salts can be used successfully IN ANYTHING as long as you tailor your nicotine levels to your coil and wattage. Some people LOVE the taste of nic salts or lack of throat hit (sometimes) but otherwise they are pretty similar to freebase (other than some reported claims that they are more stable over the long haul chemically compared to freebase). I do find a slightly different taste from them but again that is entirely subjective and etc.

Anna

What im getting from the OP is he thinks he can tailor design coils to nicotine salt levels. A coil is a coil is a coil. And same with wicks. Ive yet to see a coil and wick setup that makes a difference from two types of nicotine or any particular level of nicotine. This is gonna be my last comment on this thread as the OP appears to be thick headed and believes info contrary to fact. But this is only my opinion.

 

[Asbestos4004]

I'm developing a mod strictly for Vanilla flavored ejuice. It won't care what ohm coil you put in it....but if you try to sneak some tootie frootie in it, it's gonna go bad.
I'm going to turn the industry upside down with this breakthrough.

 

[hariboholmes]

Absolutely pointless idea those who are wanting a nic salt solution can easily find a suitable device to use.

However I disagree that there is no difference in the bioavailability of nic salt I use a 12mg nic salt with my morning coffee and there is no doubt I feel a definite nicotine rush that I didn't feel before when using freebase in the same mod and atty

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

 

[BillW50]

However I disagree that there is no difference in the bioavailability of nic salt I use a 12mg nic salt with my morning coffee and there is no doubt I feel a definite nicotine rush that I didn't feel before when using freebase in the same mod and atty

Nic salt is said to reach the brain faster than freebase. So I am not surprised.

 

[Samuel LAW]

the Nic Salt in the market are mostly at 50mg, if user directly use mod to vape, it is not good. to dilute with freebase is a solution. For me, I haven't tried this way to do so. I will give a try in the next couple days.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

Maybe where you are.
Nic salt type liquids are available in almost any nic mg/ml.
That goes for finished store bought liquids and nic base for DIY.
To dilute high mg/ml nic salts you'd use pg/vg, not free base nic.
3 mg/ml nic salt e liquid vs 3 mg/ml freebase nic e liquid can be vaped in identical devices using identical resistances & power with no noticeable difference. Or whatever nic mg/ml you prefer.

Seems you don't understand how any of this works.

 

[Samuel LAW]

Maybe where you are.
Nic salt type liquids are available in almost any nic mg/ml.
That goes for finished store bought liquids and nic base for DIY.
To dilute high mg/ml nic salts you'd use pg/vg, not free base nic.
3 mg/ml nic salt e liquid vs 3 mg/ml freebase nic e liquid can be vaped in identical devices using identical resistances & power with no noticeable difference. Or whatever nic mg/ml you prefer.

Seems you don't understand how any of this works.

Thanks for your pro-answers. you are right. pg/vg are the elements for the dilution. I just learned how to dilute on this site. before, I just use what they are from the market. Thanks!

 

[stols001]

Well there are conflicting reports about salt bioavailability compared to freebase, and I think, possibly, some, all, maybe? information does center also around WHAT method is used for salt conversion.. I too thought it was more bioavailable at first, but I have heard from others that it may not be and etc. So.... Here again we have lack of clarity.

I will say 50 mg/ml is going to reach the brain FASTER possibly, per puff, than say sub0hming at 5, so it's hard again, to say. I HAVE noticed a rapid effect in my WAY higher nic tanks than my 18 mg/ml ones. (Both nic salts) and I put the vape down for a while.

Trying to get back to vaping ONLY, and that higher nic certainly helps,. and has a rapid effect. But, I don't know if it's the level or my nic salts as frankly I am NOT ABOUT TO TRY vaping super high nic freebase.


Lots of variables, I think.

Anna

 

[Samuel LAW]

Hi Anna, I am wondering, is there any mod can vape high nic-salt:50mg/ml? if users don't dilute 50mg/ml, as fas as I know, Mod used to vape high VG/PG for big cloud, in my market, most of the nic-salt just follow small Pod concentration, mainly at 50mg/ml.

 

[BillW50]

Samuel LAW: Sure you could in virtually any mod. But it is 50mg nic. How much nic can you take without making yourself sick? I can handle a lot of nicotine, but even I don't know if I could handle vaping 50mg all day.

 

[stols001]

Any MTL mod with the power turned down low. KEEP in mind, the Juul power delivery system is REALLY low. But you could try it. Etc. IDK how it would be as an all day vape, either. You also have the option to dilute the 50 mg/ml some.

Just keep an eye out for nic overload symptoms but honestly, it MAY be doable, especially with lower wattage, and vaping in shorter bursts.

I really DON'T want to give advice to this specific situation other than if that is the nic level you need, that is what you need, but yes that is pretty high for pretty much any non cigalike device and etc.

Good luck be careful would be my main advice.

Anna

 

[Topwater Elvis]

50 mg/ml nic and ' big cloud ' just doesn't go together.
The more vapor produced & inhaled the more nicotine inhaled also.

Unless you limit yourself to just a few vapes per hour or dilute the 50mg/ml nic to a reasonable level it will be very easy to over nic yourself.
Nicotine is held in suspension within the Pg, Vg, flavorings & sweeteners to make a finished liquid.
No power or delivery device will control / limit the amount of nicotine being vaporized, that must take place by using an appropriate nicotine level to begin with.

Seems you don't understand how any of this works.
Step one,, Choose an appropriate nic level for your personal preference & vaping method.
If that nic mg/ml isn't avalible where you are, either dilute the liquids available, make your own liquids (DIY) or use an appropriate vaping method / setup for the liquids you have.

The wheel was invented & perfected many years ago, no reason to try to reinvent the wheel, tire & entire car because you don't want to align the front end and balance your wheels & tires to get even wear, good handling & a smooth ride.

Vaping is a balancing act.

 

[stols001]

OMG THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If you are using a DL device you can't use nic salts at 50 mg/ml you just CAN'T. You are going to be Very Uncomfortable at best, and totally ILL possibly seriously at WORST.

PLEASE don't do that, a reasonable level of nic in a sub0hm delivery system would be 3 mg/ml at the lowest, and about 9 and that's on the high side. DON'T.

There are some experienced folks who've maybe gone higher after they've been vaping a while, but they know what they are doing.

I was a 3 ppd smoker and I started out with 12 mg in a DL device and I GOT NIC SICK.

I since moved to ohms higher than 1.0 for the most part, and even then I use like, 18 mg/ml.

No go to use that level of nic in a high cloud producing device, if you do it you will most likely regret it, and hopefully not in a "Man, that hospital bill was high," kind of way but you will regret it.

Unless you want to take one puff every few hours, but I'm guessing you don't want to do that and even then, it's just totally inadvisable I'm afraid. Topwater Elvis is 100% right.

Read up and learn, etc.

Anna

 

[Samuel LAW]

I tried the high nic-salt on a cloudy mod, it was terrible, this is why I am thinking a device can softly vape also high salt-mic, the wick ohm is the trick, so as when the device detect it is a high ohm wick, the device will auto lower down the wattage to around 10W, so users can avoid such bad experience. but when the device detect a sub-ohm wick, it will switch to 25W or a little bit higher. all of the setups will be automatically shift by the device, users won't to take care of this, I think this could be helpful for beginners.

 

[Zaryk]

Or you could use the right nic levels for your device.

I can see where you are coming from with your idea, but it seems like it would only be useful a handful of times to a very low amount of people. It basically removes the need to press a button a few times, and as that isn't a very daunting task, so it seems like it would be more of a gimmick than a useful feature. There are already mods out there that auto adjust wattage to your ohms, but it has not caught on because not many people use that feature.

 

[medleypat]

I see anther problem with this idea unless you only have prefilled pods a beginner could put high Nic in a low ohm pod then the device would fire at high watts and the beginner would probably blame the device

 

[ScottP]

OK let me take a stab at explaining all of this.

In order to have complete understanding we must first remember a bit of vaping history. In the early days of ecigs most people started with cig-a-likes, cartos, clearos, and such that were all high ohm (1.8-2.4 ohm range) and tight airflow and thus required lower wattages to reach proper vaping temp range. Even people that used early RDA's and mech mods used higher ohm builds. Back then most juices were sold starting at 24mg/ml or 18mg/ml although you could get lower. This was FREEBASE nic, and yet people were vaping it just fine at high resistance and low wattages. These early devices did not produce tons of vapor so these higher concentrations were needed.

Then some people with RDAs and mechs realized they could produce more vapor and thus more flavor by using lower resistances (and more airflow) and a game of "How low can you go" started. However all this extra vapor also meant more nic and TH (throat hit) so 24mg juice in these setups could be quite harsh. Thus, people started using lower nic concentrations (mostly in the 3mg-6mg range). Soon even tanks with drop in coils had moved to sub ohm as well and the new juice standards were in the new lower ranges (although higher ranges are still available, just not as common). So people were now vaping the same freebase nic at low resistance and high wattages just using lower nic concentrations.

However, some people needed more nic than 6mg/ml but with modern devices the TH was too harsh for many, if they went too much above that. Enter nic salts. Salts allows users to go quite a bit higher in nic concentration without adding a lot of TH. That is it's purpose, to allow the use of higher nic concentrations without adding TH in whatever device you are using. You can vape salts at high or low concentrations, high or low resistance, and high or low wattages, on any device with any coil and any wick.

Summary

• Wattage has NOTHING to do with nic type or concentration. It is a function of the resistance of the coil(s) you are using and the temperature you are trying to reach to properly vaporize the liquid without getting too hot.
  
• Low resistance requires higher wattage to reach proper temps and higher resistance requires less.
  
• You can vape either freebase or salts at 0.1 ohm with high wattage or 2.4 ohm and low wattage.
• Wick has NOTHING to do with nic type. You can vape either nic type at any concentration with cotton, rayon, silica, or any other known wick material.
• You do NOT need a special tank, a special coil, or a special wick to vape salts.
• The choice to use salt or not usually comes in if a person needs a higher concentration of nic but doesn't want the added TH an increase of freebase nic would add.
  
• You don't even have to choose between nic types. Right now, as I type this I am vaping a DIY Bubblegum juice that has 6mg nic, half from freebase and half from salts. I made this for my wife who has trouble with TH above 3mg of freebase making her cough but needs more than 3mg nic to stay off cigarettes. I use a mix of the two to keep just a little TH but not too much.
• JUUL and other such systems use salts because they use really high concentrations of nic (50mg/ml) and if they used freebase at those levels the TH would be unbearable for all but a few people.

I hope this helps clear up some of the confusion.

 

[BillW50]

Low resistance requires higher wattage to reach proper temps and higher resistance requires less.

Hmm... say I build a Kanthal 2Ω and say if I set it for 9 watts and it vapes fine (Heat capacity 29.54 mJ/K). Now I build this huge nickel coil also at 2Ω, but now 9 watts doesn't produce any vapor (Heat capacity 553.77 mJ/K). Now I will need over 200 watts to get enough heat. So it is more like a mass vs. resistance thing.

Low resistance requires higher wattage to reach proper temps and higher resistance requires less. Wattage has NOTHING to do with nic type or concentration. It is a function of the resistance of the coil(s) you are using and the temperature you are trying to reach to properly vaporize the liquid without getting too hot.

That isn't right either. As I could vape freebase 18mg all day while MTL. Resistance doesn't matter. As I often vape 18mg MTL at 0.07Ω (even at 2Ω I could). But if I switch and DL the same, I will quickly over nic myself with just a few vapes. One time I can handle just fine. But I have to wait an hour or so before I vape it again.

So it depends on how you vape. MTL with freebase, some people say higher nic is too harsh. For me it isn't, but that is another story. But if you DL, you really should drastically lower your nic or you will quickly over nic yourself in no time.

 

[ScottP]

Hmm... say I build a Kanthal 2Ω and say if I set it for 9 watts and it vapes fine (Heat capacity 29.54 mJ/K). Now I build this huge nickel coil also at 2Ω, but now 9 watts doesn't produce any vapor (Heat capacity 553.77 mJ/K). Now I will need over 200 watts to get enough heat. So it is more like a mass vs. resistance thing.


That isn't right either. As I could vape freebase 18mg all day while MTL. Resistance doesn't matter. As I often vape 18mg MTL at 0.07Ω (even at 2Ω I could). But if I switch and DL the same, I will quickly over nic myself with just a few vapes. One time I can handle just fine. But I have to wait an hour or so before I vape it again.

So it depends on how you vape. MTL with freebase, some people say higher nic is too harsh. For me it isn't, but that is another story. But if you DL, you really should drastically lower your nic or you will quickly over nic yourself in no time.

I was giving a brief history of vaping to demonstrate why salts are used. I was not trying to give a complete lesson in electro-thermodynamics. If you have the inclination to write that up be my guest.

Again this was more of a brief generalized history than trying to cover every possible corner case or detail, and I certainly wasn't trying to document how BillW50 personally vapes. Again feel free to document whatever you wish.

Finally, I am not going to ague over personal experiences. Whatever you experienced or claim to have experienced is your experience and may or may not reflect what others have or will experience. None of which changes how and why salts are used. They are used to allow people to increase nic concentration without adding too much TH and it does not require special tanks, mods, coils, or wicks. Period. The end.