A Mod tragedy I think everyone should know about ...

[martinc]

Staking is so tempting.

And I had a few peeps laugh at me when I was talking about using a certain type of batts in my GGs (protected) and how they pointed me the fad of the day (unprotected/safe chem)...frankly,when I vape my stealth with UFS,either last the same amount of time.

What disturbs me is that the lil circuit boards in the protected ones can go bad as well.

 

[Switched]

There is always a risk with stacking, but it shouldn't be something to be afraid about, anyone who operates a laptop is operating in both a parallel and series condition. Wrt to PCBs yes they do fail. If one relys solely on PCBs for protection, there is a good chance of them becoming statistics as well.

 

[theWayISshut]

Yet - they are available and people purchase them.

batteries are available everywhere. Responsible vendors will only sell protected ones from reliable manufacturers - true - but how many people do you hear of every day who go bargain hunting overseas to get something at half the price?

The person relating the explosion story mentioned, "he wasn't using oddball batteries....I have no idea what caused this."

That's the problem. All we really have are assumptions, ie, it's a user error, carelessness... He was using protected batteries, yet it happened. We don't know why. Seems no one is interested in the exact sequence of things the user was in that led to it. We need more details is all I'm saying so we can learn something from it.

 

[Kevin littell]

And the Titanic was unsinkable....


And theres several post's today about PVs that wont fire below X.X ohms and the user has no clue they are trying to run twice the rated current out of a high amp battery thru a small piece of solid wire and placing said PV up to their face while putting the end of it in their mouth....


Not saying accidents dont happen BUT most tragedies arent accidents.


Do you shoot a new gun with overcharged ammo? Do you put 110 octane fuel into a bone stock engine and not expect some problems?


I know the jury is still out on this incident and am not making accusations or pointing fingers.....


I charge my 18650s charge inside a metal box....anything thats not acting right once screwed onto the battery and fired goes into the trash. You have to take a certain amount of personal responcibilty for your own actions and saftey and stacking batteries of any kind without running thru the old E=I X R or I=E/R or P=IxE equations is Russian Roulette.


And if you have no idea what those equations are please use the battery and atomizers your mod came with or sell your mod and buy another Ego. Your pulling the trigger of a pistol every time your hit the fire button on your PV.

Exploding batteries is a result of over current whether internal or external....that 510 battery above shorted internally. The one that went off in the face was an external short.


We inhale a dangerous nerve agent and carry pipe bombs.....Are we sane???


We NEED to be extra carefull!

 

[Concat]

The person relating the explosion story mentioned, "he wasn't using oddball batteries....I have no idea what caused this."

That's the problem. All we really have are assumptions, ie, it's a user error, carelessness... He was using protected batteries, yet it happened. We don't know why. Seems no one is interested in the exact sequence of things the user was in that led to it. We need more details is all I'm saying so we can learn something from it.

Protected? I asked previously what a LiFePo battery was, no one answered. I was under the impression they were AM IMRs, which are not protected. They are considered "safe chemistry"

 

[5vz]

The person that posted about this said the friend was using Tenergy, read roly's post here:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...s/76078-exploding-mods-current-situation.html

 

[Concat]

Perhaps this, since they were stacked: Tenergy LiFePO4 RCR123A 3.0V 750mAh Rechargeable Battery

Doesn't say anything about being protected, but it does mention safe chemistry.

 

[ChellyNelly]

Protected? I asked previously what a LiFePo battery was, no one answered. I was under the impression they were AM IMRs, which are not protected. They are considered "safe chemistry"

LifePo: Lithium iron phosphate battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[5vz]

Perhaps this, since they were stacked: Tenergy LiFePO4 RCR123A 3.0V 750mAh Rechargeable Battery

Doesn't say anything about being protected, but it does mention safe chemistry.

We don't really know concat, but we are guessing these are the ones. They are not protected. A lot of us have these and thought they were okay to use, but not so. Now I see them for sale on lots of vendors sites too, and I too have a bunch but they are of no use to me now. I am too afraid to use them or any stacked batteries. Guess I could invest in a high end flashlight for storms, but I don't have that kind of disposable income.

I hope the person is okay. Don't know what else to say.

 

[Concat]

Seems AW IMR are LiMN, not LiFePo4.

 

[Song]

Protected? I asked previously what a LiFePo battery was, no one answered. I was under the impression they were AM IMRs, which are not protected. They are considered "safe chemistry"

there no such thing as "safe chemistry" just "safer chemistry" i find the safe chemistry label very misleading for people thinking that they will be safe as long as they use " safe chemistry" batteries. All li-ion batteries are dangerous no matter what kind of chemistry you put in it.

But to answer your question, LiFePo batteries are indeed the " safer chemistry" kind , just like IMR. There nominal charge is lower then ICR and IMRs thou but I think LiFePo batteries are supposed to be able to be recharged much more times then a IMR or ICR one would, don't remember all the rest of it but there supposed to have a decent C rating too.

 

[kanadiankat]

Protected? I asked previously what a LiFePo battery was, no one answered. I was under the impression they were AM IMRs, which are not protected. They are considered "safe chemistry"

Nicely answered by Rolygate in a post that I think every mod user should read (portion quoted below to answer re:LiFePo

Protected batteries, if supplied
'Safe technology' batteries are preferred: Li-Mn.
Li-FePo4 can be used but they MUST HAVE a C rating of 4C or over. Cheap Li-FePo4 cells must not be used.
Li-ion batteries, if used, should have dual protection: both overcharge and dead short (short-circuit) protection.

Gas vent holes
Holes must be drilled to vent the gas that might result from heavy charging or a short-circuit.
A minimum of two holes are required, each of which must be of 2mm diameter or larger.
Radially-drilled holes are preferred to holes in the end of the casing, since if they are in the end then the mod will be propelled strongly in the opposite direction, perhaps toward the face. Radial holes (holes around the outside, probably at the lower end), are preferable as they will not impart any thrust during a gas vent incident.

A kill switch
A second switch that disconnects the batteries totally during transport and storage.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/announcements-rules/76078-exploding-mods-current-situation.html

And if you are unsure of what these terms mean - study them and ask questions until you do - or (as someone else mentioned here) - swap your mod for a regular PV - and still, practise caution.

PV`s are the only electronic on the market that you use with liquid and stick in your mouth. So extra caution is needed.

 

[5vz]

Any pv can have battery issues. An ego; riva; or what have you can go bad and be dangerous.

I've had 2 mods that had issues, within 2 years

One I owned for all of 5 minutes. A 5v box mod, put batteries on, put carto on, take a vape. Set it down to go to get a basket about 20 paces away. The drip tip had melted. The box was very hot as was the burned up carto. I am guessing that was a short circuit. Got it replaced, but only used occasionally.

Another was a Maxi RS. Vaped for around a couple of hours one weekend morning. (Not 2 hours straight, just normal vaping.) Set it down to turn on the t.v. and heard sizzling. I was the MRS. Fortunately I was right there to take it all apart, toss the batts, carto, and switch. After reading about the latest incident, tossed the MRS.

Just have to be very cautious with anything with batteries in it and using it to heat up something.

 

[Switched]

Protected? I asked previously what a LiFePo battery was, no one answered. I was under the impression they were AM IMRs, which are not protected. They are considered "safe chemistry"

Basic to Advanced Battery Information from Battery University I am not trying to be a donkey (the other word for donkey), you obviously need to start reading.

 

[Concat]

I did look for the answer there, but it's not as though it mentions AW IMR anywhere. At any rate, I've discovered the answer.

AW IMR = LiMN. That website doesn't list ANY battery with a chemical composition of LiMN. There's LiNiMnCoO2 and LiMn2O4. I tried, switched.

Besides, LiFePO4 is only 3.3V, so you'd think that would have tipped me off...

 

[Urban Nightmare]

Yet - they are available and people purchase them.

Batteries are available everywhere. Responsible vendors will only sell protected ones from reliable manufacturers - true - but how many people do you hear of every day who go bargain hunting overseas to get something at half the price?

But one problem I have is the local battery place that is reputable and has a great selection of batteries wants $28.00 per 18650! I know he has over head and such but that's getting out of hand. You can get the same UltraFire online for less then half that price. Problem comes when someone see's that same one for say $15 but then surfs some more and see's on for 5 to 8 bucks. Why would I pay 15 for one when I can get three for the same price. Well safety is the reason but people don't look at it that way.

 

[r4nd0mCh40s]

This thread reminds me of another battery thread on the canadian side here, where one member was boasting using normal li-nhim batteries, I told him id never use unportected batteries and hes all like "never had a problem yet" I hope he reads this thread and reconsiders his actions

 

[teabagger]

"guns dont kill people". I once read somewhere that two coulombs of energy, will repel each other with 1 million lbs of force if placed within 1 meter of each other ..now a battery such as 2800mah 18650,contains (in a perfect world)the potential to be 2800 coulombs of energy.

 

[kanadiankat]

But one problem I have is the local battery place that is reputable and has a great selection of batteries wants $28.00 per 18650! I know he has over head and such but that's getting out of hand. You can get the same UltraFire online for less then half that price. Problem comes when someone see's that same one for say $15 but then surfs some more and see's on for 5 to 8 bucks. Why would I pay 15 for one when I can get three for the same price. Well safety is the reason but people don't look at it that way.

The raw truth:

It`s not usually overhead that makes the price difference between electronic and electrical stuff. The guy charging twice the amount has the same overhead as the next guy who is selling at half the price.

It`s quality and authenticity and properly supplied and transported and verifiable and backed by a trusted manufacturer and not stored in a damp warehouse somewhere on the east side of China for a year before being sold by a untraceable wholesale agent at a fraction of the price to an unsuspecting retailer who passes it on to an unsuspecting buyer at some crazy price that wouldn`t normally cover the cost of the item wholesale - much less twice marked up to retail.... (...and she breaths....)


You really do get what you pay for.

If the person selling you a mod is a trusted and respected retailer with a solid reputation for safety and quality - WHY would you risk your health or life or sight or someone elses to save $14 bucks (the cost of a bucket of KFC) - ESPECIALLY when the dangers are well documented and are very serious.... (...she breaths again...).

 

[Nikkita6]

The person relating the explosion story mentioned, "he wasn't using oddball batteries....I have no idea what caused this."

That's the problem. All we really have are assumptions, ie, it's a user error, carelessness... He was using protected batteries, yet it happened. We don't know why. Seems no one is interested in the exact sequence of things the user was in that led to it. We need more details is all I'm saying so we can learn something from it.

Well the OP of this story has promised to comeback with further details once he has them ... the problem is that the injured party is in ICU and unable to relay any detailed information that could help in understanding exactly how this happened, or what if any signs/warnings may have been present at the time it happened.

I really do hope that someone is able to accurately determine at some point what happened to cause this terrible accident.